DragonBall: Season 5 DVD Set - Dissection\Discussion

[jjgp1112]

Maybe the performance is different, but the acting is terrible. And her voice is just really annoying. Like, nails on a chalkboard annoying. What's there to like?

Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree and continue liking what we like.

[Cowboy Dev]

Ah, if only it were a perfect world and nobody desired dubs of foreign language products at all.

I second this.
Despite my love for some voice actors, this would be perfect.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

Ah, if only it were a perfect world and nobody desired dubs of foreign language products at all.

Then there wouldn't be an Anime market in the U.S, period.

[Gaffer Tape]

Sure there would. Even in this world, if, for some reason, dubs didn't or couldn't exist, anime subbing and distribution would still exist. Undoubtedly on a smaller scale than right now, but it would certainly exist. But in the fantasy world I speak of, where people wouldn't start gnashing their teeth and ripping their clothes if cartoon characters don't speak in the same language as them, the anime market would be just as booming because it would still be based on the popularity of the properties themselves. In fact, anime would probably make more money in my world as there would be less overhead. It's much more cost-efficient to sub anime than it is to dub anime, which is why some smaller, niche title are released sub-only: there's no justification for spending more money for the release. In fact, in this fantasy world, the only people who might suffer are, unfortunately, the voice actors and people in related fields. But even that's a maybe as there is still plenty of local voice work.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

Sure there would. Even in this world, if, for some reason, dubs didn't or couldn't exist, anime subbing and distribution would still exist. Undoubtedly on a smaller scale than right now, but it would certainly exist. But in the fantasy world I speak of, where people wouldn't start gnashing their teeth and ripping their clothes if cartoon characters don't speak in the same language as them, the anime market would be just as booming because it would still be based on the popularity of the properties themselves. In fact, anime would probably make more money in my world as there would be less overhead. It's much more cost-efficient to sub anime than it is to dub anime, which is why some smaller, niche title are released sub-only: there's no justification for spending more money for the release. In fact, in this fantasy world, the only people who might suffer are, unfortunately, the voice actors and people in related fields. But even that's a maybe as there is still plenty of local voice work.

I really don't want to turn this into a "sub vs. dub" thread, so this'll be my last post on the matter. I don't deny that there would be an Anime market if dubs didn't exist, but it certainly wouldn't even be close to the billions of dollars that it's worth today. It was dubs of Anime that aired on T.V like Astro Boy, Battle of the Planets, Voltron, Pokemon and Dragon Ball Z that really solidified Anime's place in America.


FUNimation certainly wouldn't exist, since Dragon Ball Z was what made them the big company they are today. If they released it sub-only, they definately wouldn't have made as much money from it. Sure, just subbing cost less. But it would be detrimental in the long run as less money would be made from the release. If dubs didn't exist, you wouldn't be able to go down to your local Walmart and buy Anime. You'd have to buy bootlegs from Chinatown or wherever.

[Gaffer Tape]

I'm not getting into a sub vs. dub debate. I'm not even talking about the real world. I specifically said, "if only it were a perfect world..." Obviously just my interpretation of a perfect world where the importation of foreign language media are concerned. But given that all things were equal, and the only change being that people weren't so xenophobic (or, possibly, networks believing people to be xenophobic) and didn't mind reading subtitles, and that products were judged solely on their content rather than their language, absolutely nothing would be different about the industry.

I freely admit and have said multiple times in this thread that the real world is not that way. The majority of anime fans, if FUNimation's pie chart is to be believed, prefer dubs. I know that. I recognize that. And if dubs didn't exist in this world, then, yes, the anime market would be smaller and much less mainstream. I said exactly that in my last post. I do not deny any of this. I believe you are misinterpreting what I'm saying, which, admittedly isn't much more than just wishful thinking.

[Rory]

Daimaoh's right. Who'd have enjoyed the Pokémon anime upon it's release? You think a load of kids are gonna gather round a TV and stick around to read subtitles? I know I wouldn't have.
We're talking about a mass-market here, the "casual" fan. Anime would be nowhere near as popular as it is today without dubbing companies introducing these properties to a new generation.
Besides that, I've seen some fantastic dubs in my time, Death Note, Full Metal Alchemist, Coyboy Bebop and Outlaw Star to name but a few. I prefer to watch these to the original (maybe not including Death Note), and I'm sure the kids who are introduced to these shows would prefer these versions.

Putting things into perspective:
Not everybody is as experienced/cultured as you, so you can't speak for everybody.
Not everybody is willing to put up with language barrier, I've heard the legitimate argument "If I want text, I'll read a book" from friends of mine who are completely literate and do read novels regularly.
The anime industry would still be a very small niche, and the property's you love might not be as big, or who knows, may not evene xsist without the worldwide income they make due to dubs.

A "perfect world" this would not be.

[Innagadadavida]

I'm not getting into a sub vs. dub debate. I'm not even talking about the real world. I specifically said, "if only it were a perfect world..." Obviously just my interpretation of a perfect world where the importation of foreign language media are concerned. But given that all things were equal, and the only change being that people weren't so xenophobic (or, possibly, networks believing people to be xenophobic) and didn't mind reading subtitles, and that products were judged solely on their content rather than their language, absolutely nothing would be different about the industry.

I freely admit and have said multiple times in this thread that the real world is not that way. The majority of anime fans, if FUNimation's pie chart is to be believed, prefer dubs. I know that. I recognize that. And if dubs didn't exist in this world, then, yes, the anime market would be smaller and much less mainstream. I said exactly that in my last post. I do not deny any of this. I believe you are misinterpreting what I'm saying, which, admittedly isn't much more than just wishful thinking.

I think people are taking offense to your implication (and as of this post, accusation) that those who prefer dubs are xenophobic. Which is not true. I don't care if the spoken language is Spanish (which I speak a little of), French, Japanese, Chinese, Martian, Penguin, whatever, I don't like reading subtitles. It has nothing to do with the country of origin. I don't get the same enjoyment out of watching a show with subtitles as I do without. So I could either not watch foreign media at all, or I could watch a dubbed production. It's not because I'm lazy. It's not because I'm afraid of things from other countries. I just legitimately enjoy watching shows when I don't have to fucking read the whole time.

Also, I don't care how accurate this or that dub is. I just want to watch something and enjoy it.

Well, I care in Dragon Ball's case. But everything else: If it is, great, If it's not, oh well.

[Gaffer Tape]

I'm still getting the impression aren't really being bothered to actually read or understand my post. Which is funny since I was really just making a one-off comment to begin with. But you're making assumptions that I'm simply not making. Or you're being like Rory and, for some reason, thinking that I'm actually making comments about reality. And that's getting rather annoying to me, honestly, as I'm going out of my way to explain myself but still having people seem to just totally miss the point. I don't know if that's just due to defensiveness due to their own preferences (preferences I'm not attacking or even deriding) or just not bothering to carefully read, but either way it's getting a bit silly, and I'm just not even going to bother addressing them anymore since I already have in detail, and most of the people who are replying seem to just keep bringing up the same non-relevant argument that has nothing to do with what I'm saying. My envisioning of a perfect world can't please everybody, nor is it intended to. I'm sorry if I somehow stirred up feelings of antipathy. But I do get the odd impression reading these that some people have a hard time separating fantasy from reality.

But for Innagadadavida, I do want to clarify because you are actually referencing something that I said, and I do want to make sure it's not taken the wrong way. Looking at my post, I actually meant to write, "weren't so xenophobic or don't like reading subtitles," not "and." Of course, I'm not entirely sure me using the right conjunction would have made any difference, and I'm fairly certain I'd still be addressing this regardless. But that's okay, because I guess it needs elaboration. But note that I did purposely make a parenthetical "(or, possibly, networks believing people to be xenophobic)." So while it certainly was not my intention to accuse all people (or fandoms) of being xenophobic, xenophobia has undeniably existed in the process of dubbing anime. You can't deny that there has been the assumption that a general audience will not get/does not want cultural idioms that are not their own, and that they must be stricken from the show. In the past, any semblance that a show might be Japanese has been removed. Any and all kanji would be painted over. "Hiroshi" would become "John." Rockman would change from a cute, big-eyed robot buddy to an ugly, middle-aged man holding a gun named Mega Man. It's not necessarily that way anymore, or at least not in as large doses, but it's certainly existed historically, it does still provisionally exist in dubbing anime, and it certainly is an expression of xenophobia.

So I hope that clarifies what I was trying to say. If that still annoys somebody, then, well, I guess I can't please everybody, but they are my (I hope) validly-reached opinions.

[Rory]

My envisioning of a perfect world can't please everybody, nor is it intended to.

Then it's hardly perfect, is it?

[Cowboy Dev]

My envisioning of a perfect world can't please everybody, nor is it intended to.

Then it's hardly perfect, is it?

Hence why it's his perfect world.

[Innagadadavida]

But for Innagadadavida, I do want to clarify because you are actually referencing something that I said, and I do want to make sure it's not taken the wrong way. Looking at my post, I actually meant to write, "weren't so xenophobic or don't like reading subtitles," not "and." Of course, I'm not entirely sure me using the right conjunction would have made any difference, and I'm fairly certain I'd still be addressing this regardless. But that's okay, because I guess it needs elaboration. But note that I did purposely make a parenthetical "(or, possibly, networks believing people to be xenophobic)." So while it certainly was not my intention to accuse all people (or fandoms) of being xenophobic, xenophobia has undeniably existed in the process of dubbing anime. You can't deny that there has been the assumption that a general audience will not get/does not want cultural idioms that are not their own, and that they must be stricken from the show. In the past, any semblance that a show might be Japanese has been removed. Any and all kanji would be painted over. "Hiroshi" would become "John." Rockman would change from a cute, big-eyed robot buddy to an ugly, middle-aged man holding a gun named Mega Man. It's not necessarily that way anymore, or at least not in as large doses, but it's certainly existed historically, it does still provisionally exist in dubbing anime, and it certainly is an expression of xenophobia.

I think "xenophobia" is much too harsh a word to describe the "Americanization" of foreign media when it crosses US shores. It has less to do with the entire public's acceptance or lack there of, and more to do with any given licensing company's perception of "will this affect profits in any way at all, no matter how small."

Although, I don't like reading subtitles. As I specified. Regardless, I think it's incredibly silly to wish that everybody shared your preference. Or at least silly to vocalize that. Because we all wish everybody thought we did on this or that. Despite the fact, it'd be a boring world if we all shared the same ideas. Yin and yang, brother.

I do believe there is a general aversion to anime by mainstream America today. But not because it's from Japan. Mostly because the image of Japanese cartoons has been tainted by awful fanservice shows and cute big eyed mascots. And the horribly deformed socially awkward glob of people who refer to themselves as "otaku." They are their own worst enemy.

[Gaffer Tape]

Maybe it's possible that xenophobia was too strong a word. I'm not so sure. I mean, executive types can and do get afraid of taking any risks, but you know there has to be a reason why leaving in cultural idioms would be considered a risk in the first place.

Although, I don't like reading subtitles. As I specified. Regardless, I think it's incredibly silly to wish that everybody shared your preference. Or at least silly to vocalize that. Because we all wish everybody thought we did on this or that. Despite the fact, it'd be a boring world if we all shared the same ideas. Yin and yang, brother.

I don't think it's silly. Please don't assume I'm advocating a world where everyone shared the same opinion. I do not like the idea of mindless automotons. But you do have to understand that you're looking at things from a larger majority perspective. Your preference is more often catered to. And divisions in any kind of fandom, be it foreign language cartoons or anything else, has repurcussions for other groups. When it comes to my fandoms, I'm a "purist" in the... purest sense of the word. And I don't think it's right for any tampering to occur once something has been released. But it does seem the majority (and those in charge) prefer multiple versions and changes and tampering. As a Star Wars fan, that means I have to watch non-anamorphic, laserdisc transfers of my favorite movies. And as an anime fan, that means that if I turn on a television, what I see is almost invariably going to be an English dub. So, yeah, while it's boring to share the same ideas, it's also not fun for my ideas to constantly take a back seat to yours, if you get my drift. It's less Yin and Yang and more Yin and yang.