Post Dragon Box

[TonyTheTiger]

But they already released a version for the US dub fans. The singles/box sets from before. They were exactly what the US fan could want. Faulconer's score with the dub (as seen on TV), brighter colors (as seen on TV), and slightly zoomed in footage (as seen on TV). The old singles/box sets were tailor-made for the US fan. A US dub fan was a fan of the show that was released through those singles. There would be no reason for these fans (and myself included actually) to want the "original" colors and whatnot because the show they loved was on DVD exactly the same way they saw it on TV.

That's not true in the least. Because the series is 291 episodes and it is impossible to obtain all 291 on the singles without missing footage or entire episodes in the early portions of the series. Episodes were aired on TV with a new dub that never made it to DVD in the singles. And the only release that is complete is a visual disaster. So, no. None of that is true.

It's not anyone's fault that you or other dub fans did not capitalize when you had the opportunity and bought the singles. I have them all and it wasn't easy (because I started collecting them after the Season Sets started coming out for the simple reason that I thought the Season Sets were horrible) but I did it.

Don't assume I care very much about Faulconer's score. I don't hate it as much as some people here but I don't think it's a necessity or anything. But I am a bit of a completionist so I would have liked it to at least be present on the Dragon Box, even if only as a stereo 2.0 track provided it wouldn't have been at the expense of something else. I'm even a bit curious as to why they removed the marathon mode. But that aside, the singles still suck in a couple of ways as I already pointed out. Not to mention the sheer number of volumes and related expense related to collecting the entire set.

Since I like both versions (Japanese and US dub) of the show, I am happy owning the old singles, the Season Sets (just to say I have every version of the show, good or bad), and the Dragon Box. The fact that Faulconer's music didn't make it to the Dragon Box is fine with me. I only watch them with Japanese audio anyway. Would it be IDEALISTIC if they had Fauldoner's music? Yes. But at the same time, dub fans already had their "perfect" release (for them specifically)

In what universe do the orange bricks or singles qualify as a "perfect" release? The early singles were a product of their time. Whatever, water under the bridge. But the Ultimate Uncut Edition, which was supposed to address that, was canceled before completing it's run in favor of the much worse orange bricks. A number of the redubbed episodes that were to be released on the UUE discs were aired on TV but never made it to a home format until they got butchered in the orange bricks. So, really, who was the winner in any of this?

while the Japanese fans had been pushed aside and for a long time thought they would never cater anything Dragon Ball-related to them. However now they did. You can't say it's not fair. You can't say that they don't deserve it, because everyone waited for a very, very long time for FUNimation to stop butchering DBZ (as far as the original Japanese fans were concerned) and give them what they want.

Who said anything about Japanese fans not deserving it? But since when is this a zero sum game where for the Japanese fans to be happy the dub fans have to sacrifice something or vice versa? What's the benefit to Japanese fans that the Faulconer score is not available in a proper release? You seem jolly about that. So it's about revenge? People are happy that Faulconer's music is not available in a complete, non-butchered release out of spite? "Ha ha, how does it feel to be left out, douchebags? We went through it for years and now it's your turn, bitches!" It's OK not to care about the Faulconer score but taking pleasure from the fact that a certain subset of DBZ fans don't have access to a complete and "perfect" (or at least complete and "decent") release of the version they want is just being a dick.

[TheGreatness25]

Well if I remember correctly (figure of speech because I own them), the "Saiyan Conflict" and "Namek Saga" were both out, so in terms of the US dub "universe," all of the footage was available on DVD. The "Ultimate Uncut" edition seemed like a quick "let's just throw it in to say we did it" and yes, while it does suck that it was ended, the fact remains that from 94-2002, the complete product of what FUNimation claimed was their version of DBZ had been available on DVD. The singles were a perfect release for dub fans because it offered everything that they saw on TV. To say that a dub fan wants the original footage and proper colors is contradictory since that's not what they were watching on TV anyway.

[Codarik]

One reason why I love the English dub w/ Faulconer music is for nostalgia. I remember watching the Fusion saga on Toonami many years ago. When I got the season 9 box set it felt like I was watching an entirely new show. So a couple months later I bought some of the original fusion saga dvd singles and a rush of nostalgia hit me. It was in 4:3 format, slightly zoomed in, and had bright colors, just the way I originally saw it.

So my opinion is that the singles should be for fans that watched it on Toonami and loves nogtalgia. The remastered box sets for newer fans that never saw it on TV, and the Dragon Box for fans who watched fan subs in the 90's or just prefer the original version overall.

[jjgp1112]

Well if I remember correctly (figure of speech because I own them), the "Saiyan Conflict" and "Namek Saga" were both out, so in terms of the US dub "universe," all of the footage was available on DVD. The "Ultimate Uncut" edition seemed like a quick "let's just throw it in to say we did it" and yes, while it does suck that it was ended, the fact remains that from 94-2002, the complete product of what FUNimation claimed was their version of DBZ had been available on DVD. The singles were a perfect release for dub fans because it offered everything that they saw on TV. To say that a dub fan wants the original footage and proper colors is contradictory since that's not what they were watching on TV anyway.

But the DVDs themselves were crap. All we're asking for is a release that's actually good while not screwing us over, which is exactly what the Dragon Box did. What's so hard to understand?

[AnimeMaakuo]

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[TheGreatness25]

But the DVDs themselves were crap. All we're asking for is a release that's actually good while not screwing us over, which is exactly what the Dragon Box did. What's so hard to understand?

I get what you're saying, and anyone who knows my history in this Forum knows that I don't bash the dub, that I am actually a fan of the dub (for those nostalgic purposes), but how can you say the DVDs themselves were "crap?" How were the DVDs "crap?" The DVDs had the same quality on them that you saw on TV. That was my point the entire time. That for a fan who was a fan of what he/she saw on TV, the singles DVDs was-tailor made for them.

To fans of the original Japanese version, the DVDs were "crap," and it wasn't because it was missing the English dub with the Japanese audio either, trust me. Japanese fans wouldn't really care about that. The reason it was "crap" to them was because it had zoomed in footage which cut out a chunk of the show that THEY HAD SEEN, and the colors were different than THEY HAD SEEN, whether it be through the original Dragon Box, or even from old videos. Japanese fans are fans of the way it was meant to be seen, while dub fans are fans of the way FUNimation MADE it seem. And the singles were the way FUNimstion MADE it, therefore you can't really say they were "crap." I hope I didn't confuse everyone lol It's tough to articulate what I mean I guess.

[AnimeMaakuo]

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[GizmoKSX]

A chunk of early dub episodes are only available via the censored/spliced Pioneer DVDs and the season sets. FUNi's redub of those episodes aired on Cartoon Network, but the Ultimate Uncuts didn't make it to DVD in their entirety. That said, none of those episodes were scored by Bruce Faulconer, so for fans of his body of work specifically, it's out on DVD in its entirety if I recall correctly.

DVDs aren't the only answer. The old dub versions could conceivably be made available for download if there's enough demand.

[AnimeMaakuo]

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[jjgp1112]

It's not because of zooming or stuff like that...the singles were just encoded poorly. They had bad picture quality, simple as that.

[TonyTheTiger]

Even if the singles didn't have missing footage and the like, it's still an incredibly long series strung across single release DVDs with just a few episodes per disc. That may have been standard ten years ago but today it's unacceptable. Pretty much any release of a show worth a damn comes in at least a season set format at a reasonable price. So by today's standards, no, there is no "perfect" release for people who like the FUNi music. For these people the choice is to either settle for the shitty orange bricks or settle for the relic of the singles that are missing footage and entire episodes, some of which did air on TV but never made it to the UUE.

[GizmoKSX]

Even if the singles didn't have missing footage and the like, it's still an incredibly long series strung across single release DVDs with just a few episodes per disc.

*Looks at three FUNi Dragon Boxes on shelf*
*Remembers location of dubbed "uncut" VHS Trunks and Cell episodes stashed in a box*
Exactly right. In terms of cash, convenience, and shelf space (not to mention quality), there's no going back. Some people on this board have done it, and they've got my respect, but I can't fathom having to track down the whole show on the old singles. That's a task so daunting that I picked up the first two orange bricks upon their releases. Even knowing about the DVNR/widescreen debacle, they were far more economical. *Glances back at FUNi Dragon Boxes* Man, I'm glad I fell so far behind purchasing those bricks.

[TonyTheTiger]

With the exception of the movies I never bought any of the DVDs because even back then I found it too daunting and ultimately far too expensive. And I avoided the orange bricks like the plague for obvious reasons. I have a bunch of old VHS tapes strewn about of both fansubs and official FUNi releases, even some taped right off of TV, but nowhere near the entire series. So for me, having the Dragon Box is finally a chance to actually own the whole damn show in a consistent format that doesn't suck in one way or another.

Now imagine if I were a die hard fan of FUNi's music or even just wanted it included in a "proper" release for completions sake. I'd still be waiting for that release. That's really the issue here. It's not so much that the Dragon Box is necessarily "missing" something. It's that there is no practical option for Faulconer fans. And after all these years you'd think FUNi would be able to release the series in a set that satisfies everybody.

I'm not necessarily knocking them for not including the score in the Dragon Boxes. It is entirely possible it just wouldn't fit without the image quality taking a hit. Where I do question them is for forcing a 7th episode on each disc. If they had stuck with the original 6 episodes per disc of the Japanese release then they probably would have been able to include the score, even if it meant an 8th box. I'd probably be willing to buy an extra box for the sake of having a 100% complete release even if I wouldn't use the extra feature all that much. Doesn't hurt for it to be there. I feel the same way about marathon mode. I can't imagine when I'd ever feel like using it but I don't like that it seems to have been taken out just because.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

Agreed! Not trying to put anyone down here at all. It's just that the Japanese had made the show from their standards and then made the ultimate Dragon Boxes for us. (I'm Japanese.) I understand somewhat level that the U.s Dub fans were sort of left out. no offense to anyone, but it was the Japanese who made the show, so we made an "Original" box for just us! No English Dub, No German Dub, No Spanish Dub... Now that I said that, I understand again, that the U.S might feel left out and what not. But your quality box dub score was made through single releases, brick box sets. We waited a long time for this, we have longed to been catered to and this is again our time to shine. Not trying to be "revengeful" or anything. It's like when I make a show, I want to make an Original quality box in our country and what not, I wouldn't want people to want subtitles or anything. I want it all Original. I'm tired of people having to learn English all the damn time, It's time America learns our language for once. Not trying to be an ass, English is a decent language... Not trying to offend anyone here, just getting a point across.



EDIT * I really hope this post didn't seem like "what a bitch"! I just am trying to make a small point, and If you do not agree, let's talk about it sometime. Perhaps we can somehow get to a better understanding level of each other. I'd like to be everyone's friend on this forum and not hated. Thanks.

EDIT * Let me just add one last thing, I'm very happy everyone loves this Anime.. I understand you just want a quality box made with English dub/music track. Hopefully it will happen, but I don't think it will be from the Dragon Box, as it was Originally made for Japanese. It would be like stripping a wonderful release and then tampering with it. Just learn Japanese ^_^.

Uhhhhhhh..... are you aware that America got a Dragon Box release, similar to it's Japanese counterpart?

[Rory]

Uhhhhhhh..... are you aware that America got a Dragon Box release, similar to it's Japanese counterpart?

Um, I don't think he does...
Yo AnimeMaakuo , we got one too! With two language tracks! Nyeeeeeeh!

[AnimeMaakuo]

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[Big Momma]

Of course I know that they made one similar. What are you talking about?

It's not just similar...it's more-or-less the same thing (Footage-wise).

[Greenman]

Agreed! Not trying to put anyone down here at all. It's just that the Japanese had made the show from their standards and then made the ultimate Dragon Boxes for us. (I'm Japanese.) I understand somewhat level that the U.s Dub fans were sort of left out. no offense to anyone, but it was the Japanese who made the show, so we made an "Original" box for just us! No English Dub, No German Dub, No Spanish Dub... Now that I said that, I understand again, that the U.S might feel left out and what not. But your quality box dub score was made through single releases, brick box sets. We waited a long time for this, we have longed to been catered to and this is again our time to shine. Not trying to be "revengeful" or anything. It's like when I make a show, I want to make an Original quality box in our country and what not, I wouldn't want people to want subtitles or anything. I want it all Original. I'm tired of people having to learn English all the damn time, It's time America learns our language for once. Not trying to be an ass, English is a decent language... Not trying to offend anyone here, just getting a point across.

I'd agree with this post entirely if we were talking about the original Japanese Dragon Boxes, but were talking about the U.S. Dragon Boxes. This particular release is catered more towards fans of the original Japanese version of Dragon Ball Z, but it isn't made specifically for Japanese people. It's made for English speakers and that's why it has English subtitles and a English voice track. An audio track with dub music wouldn't force English on anybody anymore than the English with Japanese music track already does. If someone in the market for FUNi Dragon Ball DVDs is offended by English tracks/subtitles being on the same disc then that's what the Japanese Dragon Boxes are for.

[Rory]

Of course I know that they made one similar. What are you talking about?

It's almost the exact same release, FUNimation paid to use the same remastered footage.
You were making it sound like Japan has the only great Dragon Ball Z release, when you were wrong. America's is arguably better, due to optional subtitles and audio tracks (and if I recall correctly, there's more footage on the left and right of the R1 release than in the R2s).

[AnimeMaakuo]

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