.

[Thanos]

I'd like to think of that one theory as what happened to Goku -- he died in that hole, and was dead once he rose out with that final genki-dama.

Sure, no halo, but it makes it even more mysterious but in a way makes more sense for Shenlong taking him with and the subsequent appearences at the end of the TV Special and at the Goku Jr. and Vegeta Jr. fight.

As for why he seemingly absorbs the Dragon Balls... I got nothin' lol.

Ewww, that's terrible. If he were dead, he would've had a halo. I feel like they would've given some indication that he died... Dragon Ball isn't know to do sort of underhanded "make your own conclusion" situations.

If he died, Shen Long wouldn't have taken him, he'd have just disappeared. Shen Long doesn't really have any affiliation with the spirit realm...

And, if he died, there's no way he would've been able to come back to Earth. I mean, sure, he could have for one day like before (although I doubt they'd let him or he would've had any reason to), but he appeared at the tournament and with Goku Jr. at Mt. Paozu, and I'm pretty sure those are separate days.


I like to think Goku became immortal. He's the true guardian of the Earth, which is a complete parallel to what he was sent to the planet to do, which I think is neatly dualistic. Like I've said in the past, Rou Kaioshin gave him his life force, which I concluded probably also gave Goku the lifespan of him as well. Maybe there isn't a true explanation for everything that happened, but that's one way that I think it could've been possible, just so I know that it IS possible, instead of a silly plot-hole that couldn't have been filled (the countless other plot-holes from earlier in the series notwithstanding).

[TheGreatness25]

When I was a little kid and I'd write a fan fic pretty much, it took place after GT. My explanation for it was that Shen Long knew there was no use for Dragon Balls anymore, so Goku absorbed them (thus giving him god-like powers since the Dragon Balls can make wishes come true). The reason Shen Long took him, as far as I made up, was for Goku to kill Shen Long in a far off place so that the Dragon Balls could not be used.

Not saying that's what happened, but it's a theory no less plausible than anything else. I believe that he has god-like powers now thanks to absorbing the Dragon Balls because he stayed young 100 years later, and because I believe he was the one to bring Puck back to life and make Pan better in the GT TV special.

[SephiVA]

My question is that, when Vegeta dies, would be be-able to keep his body and train with Goku in the other world?

Would Vegeta get to keep his life and train with Goku later on when Vegeta dies of old age?

But would Vegeta be able to keep his physical body in the other world after aging to death?

What I want to know is, will Vegeta keep his physical body when he dies of old age? (So he can go train with Goku).

Not to be rude, but we get it...you don't have to repeat the same question 20 times, if it's in your OP post, someone will get to it eventually ^^; If this was your main/most pressing question, you probably should have worded your topic title more specifically, and not as broad as just 'at the end of GT'.

Personally I don't think so. If we go back to Vegeta's death against Buu, Piccolo flat-out told him that no, he'd lose his body, go to Hell, and be cleansed because his life is full of sin. If we had to rank good vs. evil deeds and where it nets you in the afterlife, let's say 5 is where Goku is at, 0 is neutral, and Vegeta at this point against Buu would be at a -5.

However, after this point, he comes back and fuses with Goku into Vegetto. Once they unfuse, Vegeta finally admits Goku is better, and puts a ton of effort into getting the humans to donate their energy to the Genki-Dama. Once Buu is defeated, the next 10 years of his life are spent in relative peace. Vegeta has finally let go of all that animosity between him and Goku. Factoring GT into the mix (and ignoring the whole Bebi incident because I'm pretty sure that wasn't his fault - correct me if I'm wrong though, I've seen maybe 10 episodes of GT total, and that was via fansubs back in middle school), Vegeta did more still to help save the Earth. Let's say that the gods have watched all of this and recognized it, weighing his more recent good deeds against his past evil ones. That all bumps Vegeta back up to 0, a 'clean slate' if you will - he can die and not go to Hell.

But his past is still full of evil deeds. I don't think it'd be very prudent of the gods to completely ignore the fact that the guy spent more of his life doing - and enjoying himself doing - deplorable, evil deeds, and say 'well it's okay, he spent the last few years being good, so let's just call it even and let him keep his body after death'. That'd be a pretty glaring oversight if you ask me. Vegeta does not deserve the privilege of keeping his body after death. He did not live a heroic life of good deeds like Goku, or (this is about GT, so I think we'd be silly to ignore other filler material) the other fighters shown in the Anoyoichi Budoukai. It seems to be a rule that if you live a normal, good life, then you're nobody special and you die normally. Only the goodest of the good get the privilege of keeping their bodies after death. If we consider Vegeta's good deeds, the most it could possibly do for him is bump him from a -5 (going to Hell, getting his soul erased) to a 0 ('normal'). He has no right to get bumped up to 5 (ultimate good-guy body keeping status) just because of a few instances of saving the Earth when compared to his entire life of doing terrible things.

Sorry, I know a lot of fans would just love the idea of Goku and Vegeta becoming friendly rivals in the afterlife, but considering the material (mostly filler or not, we're analyzing the end of GT after all) that just seems completely absurd and impossible. Vegeta is not a good guy. He may have eventually become a good guy, but that's just not enough. If I was a notorious serial killer on the run for 18 years, and by the time the police finally caught me, I had repented by helping a few dozen old ladies cross the street and volunteering at my local soup kitchen, would that be enough for them to decide not to throw me in jail? Of course not. This is the same thing.

So are you saying Piccolo was the exception because he clearly was in Heaven....

[dbgtFO]

@SephiVA
Piccolo Jr. the SON of Piccolo Daimao actually never did anything bad as far as the story tells besides destroying some mountains, the moon and the island, where the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai was held.
Good things done by Piccolo Jr. before dying: Killing Raditz, who threatened the people of Earth, fighting against Nappa & Vegeta, who were there to enslave the planet.
Besides this his counterpart Kami also put a good word in on his behalf.

[Cipher]

Canonocity: It's canon to the original anime. It references several anime-specific events, such as the Tsufuru-jin, the sacred water kept at Kami's palace, the anime-specific version of Hell, etc. The anime has always been its own subtly different universe to the manga.

The ending: Here's my pet theory on the ending, which I posted a long while back in another thread. I'll hold that there's enough evidence in the series to give this some strong support.

Personally, I have my own reading of the ending. I'm not sure it's what the producers intended (if they even intended anything other than being cryptic for cryptic's sake), but it's one I've come to like.

I think it's very possible that the evil dragons were never truly a threat.

Bare with. Goku is killed by Yi Xing Long. I know it's a subject of some debate, but the series seems to go out of its way to imply that he was more than just knocked cold by Yi Xing Long's blast (the one that leaves him in that massive crater). Characters can't sense him. Shen-Long very pointedly revives him with his classic eye-glow from where he lies motionless after defeating Yi Xing Long, and characters seem to think he's died on the spot. Pan, of course, finds the shredded remains of his gi. So what was Goku wearing? Was he ethereal by that point? Finally, as he says good-bye to Vegeta, Piccolo and Kame Sennin, they all let out that infamous, "Goku, are you ... ?" I don't know about anyone else, but the missing word there seems with all implications to be "dead."

Now remember, when Yi Xing Long blasts Goku as he's holding up the Genki Dama, he's convinced those hits should be killing him. And from everything we know about their powers, he's right. And what does Goku say? "I can't die until I've defeated you." What if he meant this literally?

What if Shen-Long clued Goku in on some sort of deal at his moment of death? As in, literally, he would live until he defeated the dragon, and then act as Shen-Long's vessel/spirit/what have you for the Dragon Balls as he took them away. In this way, the dragons were never an actual threat; they had to be defeated. It was merely a question of sacrifice.

It makes a bit of sense. Super Saiyan 4 is a power hundreds of times stronger than the gods, stronger than Buu, stronger than anything to ever exist. And then some dragon from Earth's Dragon Balls, minus energy aside, shows up that can smack them around like nothing? So if some normal person had abused the balls, it would have been absolutely hopeless? Seems like a tailor-made threat for our heroes. Shen-Long/the Dragon Balls don't really have a motivation for destroying Earth in the first place. But a system in place to teach a lesson specific to those abusing the Dragon Balls seems to make sense.

So my reading: The evil dragons had to be defeated. But Goku was the price of their defeat. There's just too much emphasis on Goku's "death" and his "I can't die until I've defeated you" line to not warrant a deeper look.

And obviously he's granted the privilege of somehow being connected to the Dragon Balls upon their return.

EDIT - And because I just read this post:

I feel like they would've given some indication that he died.

They did. A lot. Like, a ton.

[nathantheguitarist]

See Thanos? I'm not crazy lol.

[SephiVA]

@SephiVA
Piccolo Jr. the SON of Piccolo Daimao actually never did anything bad as far as the story tells besides destroying some mountains, the moon and the island, where the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai was held.
Good things done by Piccolo Jr. before dying: Killing Raditz, who threatened the people of Earth, fighting against Nappa & Vegeta, who were there to enslave the planet.
Besides this his counterpart Kami also put a good word in on his behalf.

I know he was Piccolo Jr, but I suppose you got me there..he may've acted evil at first, but he ended up having not done that much evil himself. Kami putting in a good word is kinda impossible if they're sharing the same body. =\

[SephiVA]

<snikt>

While I agree with you..didn't this site make a topic on its main page about this..?

[SSJ4_Zankuto]

There is always possibility someone would use a time machine just like trunks did in Trunks/Android Saga and take a peek into the past.

[Cipher]

While I agree with you..didn't this site make a topic on its main page about this..?

They touched on the theory that he died, which is old as dirt (mostly because it's so obvious), but didn't really comment on it beyond that. There was certainly no mention of the idea that he couldn't die, which is what I'm proposing.

[Kaboom]

That theory of yours is brilliant, Cipher. Gave me chills. Also gave me inferiority complex issues, because my planned ending for GTR pales in comparison, I'm sure.

[dbgtFO]

@SephiVA
Piccolo Jr. the SON of Piccolo Daimao actually never did anything bad as far as the story tells besides destroying some mountains, the moon and the island, where the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai was held.
Good things done by Piccolo Jr. before dying: Killing Raditz, who threatened the people of Earth, fighting against Nappa & Vegeta, who were there to enslave the planet.
Besides this his counterpart Kami also put a good word in on his behalf.

I know he was Piccolo Jr, but I suppose you got me there..he may've acted evil at first, but he ended up having not done that much evil himself. Kami putting in a good word is kinda impossible if they're sharing the same body. =\

Oh you were talking about GT? I didn't know, so when you said heaven I thoguht you just meant anything but Hell(like training on King Kai's planet)