Buff Buu= Kid Buu+South Kaioshin??

[Heatth]

Note that before firing that last blast, Buu fired a much smaller one that was, indeed, stopped by Goku. My theory is that the second, bigger, blast was made specially to be not easily defensible. Maybe it wouldn't be even enough to defeat SSJ3 Goku but, since they can't breath in the space, they would die anyway. For why Buu didn't pulled the same trick latter in the Kaiôshin planet, the Elder Kaiôshin did mention the planet is strong. Maybe Kid Buu is just no strong enough to destroy it so easily.

[dbgtFO]

Note that before firing that last blast, Buu fired a much smaller one that was, indeed, stopped by Goku. My theory is that the second, bigger, blast was made specially to be not easily defensible. Maybe it wouldn't be even enough to defeat SSJ3 Goku but, since they can't breath in the space, they would die anyway. For why Buu didn't pulled the same trick latter in the Kaiôshin planet, the Elder Kaiôshin did mention the planet is strong. Maybe Kid Buu is just no strong enough to destroy it so easily.

Actually the first blast was stopped by Vegeta, which Goku also thanks Vegeta for doing.
Well even though Goku might have been able to deflect the blast, it could perhaps cost him a lot of energy making him unable to fight in SSJ 3 at full power.

At that other thing perhaps, not even the spirit bomb destroyed the planet, but that wasn't Goku's objective of course. As I stated before Kid Buu didn't just randomly destroy everything, he was just more prone to do it, he could've destroyed the kaioshin planet or turned them all into candy, as soon as he teleported there, but instead chose to sleep and then fight, when a worhty opponent appeared before him.
This tells me, that he was trying to have fun, like Fat Buu and Super Buu did before him and only tried to turn his opponent into candy, when he wasn't doing as well.

I have made a drawing showing, what the manga didn't, at first this is what I made Kid Buu with South Kaioshin look like: http://img443.imageshack.us/f/buffbuu1.jpg/
But that was just Buff Buu with South Kaioshin's clothes, and I was very lazy, when I made it.
This is what I genuinely believe he should look like: http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/668/ ... aibuu2.jpg
Both was made in Paint, so they aren't exactly rich in detail, but I think the second one looks like, how I pictured it.
What do you think?

[Impish]

I dont think Kid Buu can possibly be stronger than super buu. Super Buu is Kid Buu + South Kaioshin + Daikaioshin and as such has that much power, so by logical math you can say 1+1+1=3, while Kid Buu is only 1=1. The reason Kid Buu was able more 'horrific' attacks is because although he had less power, he had absolutely no restraint, while Super Buu contained somewhere in him the souls of two extremely powerful and extremely good characters, providing a large amount of restraint.

[dbgtFO]

It would be an interesting point, but even though we weren't shown that part in the manga, we were still told it. Kaioshin, as he's explaining to the Elder Kaioshin what happened eons ago when Boo was first around, states that this "Buff" form is exactly what Kid Boo turned into when he absorbed the South Kaioshin, clothes or not. The anime just decided to pad things out by actually showing it.

I assume you have the Viz version http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j52/M ... s/buu3.jpg
I don't know about the original japanese, but Viz very clearly states that Buff Buu is Kid Buu + South Kaioshin. In my version, however Old Kaioshin don't ask, that question though. And it is never stated, that Buff Buu is = Kid Buu + South Kaioshin. I wish I had the original though...
EDIT: Here it is: http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/taison1224/i ... 000d38.jpg Can somebody please translate it(special emphasis on what Old Kaioshin is asking Kaioshin) cough *Herms* cough
Seriously anybody, who can translate japanese are welcome to help me out, it will be much appreciated.

[jackjack]

I don't know about the original japanese, but Viz very clearly states that Buff Buu is Kid Buu + South Kaioshin.

I can tell you with 100% certainty that it's also stated in the original, and Buff Boo is referred to as "huge Majin Boo" by Old Kaioshin.

[dbgtFO]

I don't know about the original japanese, but Viz very clearly states that Buff Buu is Kid Buu + South Kaioshin.

I can tell you with 100% certainty that it's also stated in the original, and Buff Boo is referred to as "huge Majin Boo" by Old Kaioshin.

Where? you gave me this translation:
Herms (panel 5-7):

Kaioshin: …Next to be absorbed was the fat but kind and peace-loving Dai-Kaioshin-sama….The Majin Boo which Bibidi had made was evil itself, a failed creation that even Bibidi himself couldn’t control. However, through absorption, he somehow became controllable…
Elder Kaioshin: …So he was finally completed…Meaning…that this small Majin Boo now…is the very first and most troublesome one of all…
Kaioshin: …Yes…His heart which he obtained by lowering his power through absorption, has returned to normal…He has no restraint whatsoever…He’s become evil itself…

[hleV]

well if you look at the subject closely Super Buu, when transforming into Kid Buu was stated to become stronger and many people say, that's because he is Buff Buu at the moment(which according to fandom is Kid Buu with South Kaioshin(SS Kai for short) absorbed).

It really is unclear why Buff Buu was stronger than Super Buu.

If we apply logic to this scene(apparently some people think that logic is non existing in the Buu arc) there's no way that could've been Kid Buu(+ SS Kai) because all the Kaioshin influence, which was stored inside Mr. Buu had already been removed making it impossible for that being the case.

If that was so, Kid Buu wouldn't have needed to spit Mr. Buu out.

My second point is that whenever we see Buu absorbing someone he takes the upper part of their clothes(Gotenks Buu had the vest, Piccolo Buu had the cape and shirt and Gohan Buu had the Gi and the shirt) the only form of Buu, that actually has more than just the upper part is Fat Buu/Mr. Buu.
Fat Buu/Mr. Buu has the Daikaioshin's gloves and his shoes probably because of the Daikaioshin's extraordinary influence on Buu.

What about the Evil Buu? And also for some reason Super Buu didn't have any upper.

If "Buff Buu" really was Kid Buu(+ SS Kai), then why didn't he have the clothes of South Kaioshin??

We're not completely sure about how the clothing works for Buu (check the argument above).

My third and final point is the anime actually gives the people believing Buff Buu is Kid Buu(+ SS Kai) proof that he is, because in the flashback we have of Kid Buu fighting the Kaioshins, it is shown, that when he absorbs South Kaioshin he becomes the same Buff Buu as seen, when transforming back.

But you know what? that entire scene was filler!! it was not in the manga!

Exactly. However, we can't know if it was right or not.

[dbgtFO]

well if you look at the subject closely Super Buu, when transforming into Kid Buu was stated to become stronger and many people say, that's because he is Buff Buu at the moment(which according to fandom is Kid Buu with South Kaioshin(SS Kai for short) absorbed).

It really is unclear why Buff Buu was stronger than Super Buu.

Yeah, according to the anime and Viz it seems that South Kaioshin increased his power greatly even though South Kaioshin is below SSJ Gohan, because he couldn't pull out the Z sword, so it makes more sense with my logic.

If we apply logic to this scene(apparently some people think that logic is non existing in the Buu arc) there's no way that could've been Kid Buu(+ SS Kai) because all the Kaioshin influence, which was stored inside Mr. Buu had already been removed making it impossible for that being the case.

If that was so, Kid Buu wouldn't have needed to spit Mr. Buu out.

Nice counter! But then again I think it was more the presence of Mr. Buu in his brain, that caused rather than a direct link to his system.

My second point is that whenever we see Buu absorbing someone he takes the upper part of their clothes(Gotenks Buu had the vest, Piccolo Buu had the cape and shirt and Gohan Buu had the Gi and the shirt) the only form of Buu, that actually has more than just the upper part is Fat Buu/Mr. Buu.
Fat Buu/Mr. Buu has the Daikaioshin's gloves and his shoes probably because of the Daikaioshin's extraordinary influence on Buu.

What about the Evil Buu? And also for some reason Super Buu didn't have any upper.

Evil Buu is an outgrowth of Fat Buu, so it is natural he is formed with the clothes of his counterpart, he is not equal to Kid Buu in anyway. And Super Buu didn't take Mr. Buu's clothes, because absorbing yourself is special? Either way the Evil Buu absorbing Mr. Buu incident wasn't the same as absorbing anyone else. Whenever he absorbs someone else he takes their clothes, so since it wasn't contradicted and he himself stated it was uncommon to not change, when he absorbed Vegetto, I think it's safe to assume Toei messed up(AGAIN!!!).

If "Buff Buu" really was Kid Buu(+ SS Kai), then why didn't he have the clothes of South Kaioshin??

We're not completely sure about how the clothing works for Buu (check the argument above).

Chech my argument above, Super Buu(Gohan) expects himself to change and so does the Kaioshins. Buu obviously knows more about himself, than the Kais do however, but the point still stands everyone(not including other Buus) succesfully absorbed by him contribute with(amongst other things) clothes to the upper part of his body.

My third and final point is the anime actually gives the people believing Buff Buu is Kid Buu(+ SS Kai) proof that he is, because in the flashback we have of Kid Buu fighting the Kaioshins, it is shown, that when he absorbs South Kaioshin he becomes the same Buff Buu as seen, when transforming back.

But you know what? that entire scene was filler!! it was not in the manga!

Exactly. However, we can't know if it was right or not.

That's true. In the anime and viz version of Dragonball Buff Buu is stated to be Kid Buu + South Kaioshin, but in the original we never saw how he actually looked and Buff Buu was never stated to be Kid Buu + South Kaioshin, making it entirely possible, that Kid Buu was the one, who had that rising power, as Goku stated.

[Terra-jin]

Though I'm a member of the Super Buu fanclub, so to speak, I do like your idea that the buff Buu was simply a transitory form that wasn't equal to Kid Buu+South Kaioshin. They briefly say (in the dub) that Buff Buu gets stronger than Super Buu, but I've always interpreted that as a momentary surge of power. The same power surge could've caused his buff form, while his real, South Kaioshin form looked entirely different.
Your opinion does make sense, even though it's contradicted by the original text somewhat - but then I never let that get in the way of my personal tastes

But... where did Buu get his yellow gloves and shoes from..? Neither Kaioshin had those things... unless the anime misrepresented them of course. Perhaps Buu sprang on South Kaioshin while he was in a boxing match?

[dbgtFO]

Though I'm a member of the Super Buu fanclub, so to speak, I do like your idea that the buff Buu was simply a transitory form that wasn't equal to Kid Buu+South Kaioshin. They briefly say (in the dub) that Buff Buu gets stronger than Super Buu, but I've always interpreted that as a momentary surge of power. The same power surge could've caused his buff form, while his real, South Kaioshin form looked entirely different.
Your opinion does make sense, even though it's contradicted by the original text somewhat - but then I never let that get in the way of my personal tastes

It's nice to see someone acknowledging my points
And yeah for me it seems weird, that he has an extraordinary big power and then loses it right after, he could have started out as weaker, but his full power could still be bigger, than Super Buu's. This could explain, why he was panting after achieving his original form.
You must be referring to Goku being scared of Super Buu and not Kid Buu?

But... where did Buu get his yellow gloves and shoes from..? Neither Kaioshin had those things... unless the anime misrepresented them of course. Perhaps Buu sprang on South Kaioshin while he was in a boxing match?

We are never actually shown(in the manga)
, what gloves and boots Dai Kaioshin wears, so it can be assumed that he had those the Fat Buu wears. Yeah Toei probably being wrong again.
At the boxing match theory

[Senzu_Bean]

I don't believe TOEI would assume Buff Buu is Kid Buu+South Kaioshin if Akira Toriyama hadn't give them some more light on this. It is a huge jump for TOEI, knowing their filler history I can't see that happening. And does really nothing supports Buff Buu being Kid Buu merged with S. Kaioshin besides that filler? Not even the Daizenshuu?

I don't have problem seeing Kid Buu jumping from slightly weaker than SSJ3 Goku to above Super Buu by absorbing South Kaioshin since latter is obviously SSJ2-tier or above.

[dbgtFO]

I don't believe TOEI would assume Buff Buu is Kid Buu+South Kaioshin if Akira Toriyama hadn't give them some more light on this. It is a huge jump for TOEI, knowing their filler history I can't see that happening. And does really nothing supports Buff Buu being Kid Buu merged with S. Kaioshin besides that filler? Not even the Daizenshuu?

Of course Toriyama could have said, that Buff Buu in reality was Kid Buu + South Kaioshin, but the fact remains, that it wasn't shown or said in the manga(only in Viz' version) that it was the case. I don't know with the Daizenshuu though, but I don't want to consider anything that goes against the manga, they can have their own canonicity.

I don't have problem seeing Kid Buu jumping from slightly weaker than SSJ3 Goku to above Super Buu by absorbing South Kaioshin since latter is obviously SSJ2-tier or above.

South Kaioshin is SSJ 2 tier + in the anime only, we are never given any proper indication of how good he would fare against any character in the manga. It is heavily implied, that he is weaker than SSJ Gohan though, since he couldn't pull out the sword and since he is very muscular, that says a LOT.

[jackjack]

I don't know about the original japanese, but Viz very clearly states that Buff Buu is Kid Buu + South Kaioshin.

I can tell you with 100% certainty that it's also stated in the original, and Buff Boo is referred to as "huge Majin Boo" by Old Kaioshin.

Where? you gave me this translation:
Herms (panel 5-7):

In the fourth panel...Trust me, I've seen it. It's mentioned in every officially translated version except those shitty fanslated ones (where they put "no" in that speech bubble when the correct translation for it should have been "yes"...Enough said lol). If you don't trust Viz, then just hope that Herms sees this.

[dbgtFO]

Where did you even get Herms translation???
And yeah I want to know what 4th panel said, it's actually the most important one!
EDIT: To all the people where I said that Buff Buu was only stated to be Kid Buu + South Kaioshin I was WRONG, I don't have the translation of the 4th panel yet, so just ignore my statements as of now.
@ jackjack Apparently Google translate supports your claim Huge=でかい Majin Buu=魔人ブウ both of which are used in the beginning of the second row of characters in Rou Kaioshin's speech bubble right after each other.
So yeah Danish translation you SUCK(seriously they translated the whole 4th panel with: Rou Kaioshin: "Really?" Kaioshin:"Yes", that doesn't qualify as a good translation )

[jackjack]

Herms had been translating for us in a different forum before it went down.

Now that we know Old Kaioshin's asking something about this huge Majin Boo he just saw, what do you think he's asking about?
Viz: http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee64 ... upower.jpg

[Heatth]

My Japanese skills are almost inexistent, but I think Viz translation is correct. The 'なった' of that phrase is most likely the past of 'なる' ('to become'). Ergo, "でかい魔人ブウになった" would be something like "have become (the) huge Majin Buu". I believe the 'じゃない？' in the end is something a long the lines of 'isn't it?' or 'right?'. So The Elder Kaioshin is trying to get Kibitoshin's confirmation for something he had already figured out. Making the phrase something like "(he) had become (the) huge Majin Buu right?". Of course, Kibitoshin's 'はい' means 'yes'.

But, then, this is just my literal interpretation. There might be some subtly that I am unable to get or something. I don't think so, since more then one official translation had also translated like that.

[Saimaroimaru]

Face it. We aren't gonna convince each other of our views on this matter. Besides he had The Kais in him for so long it could have took longer for him to get their influence out of him once Fat Buu got removed. He was reverting to his previous stages(in this case 1) before finally returning to his original.

[Nazi Cola]

Wasn't there a theory a while back (maybe on MFG, can't remember) that there were two Buff Boos? The Buff Boo from way, way, way back, and then the Buff Boo we see after Goku & Vegeta rip the gang out of Super Boo.

[dbgtFO]

Herms had been translating for us in a different forum before it went down.

Now that we know Old Kaioshin's asking something about this huge Majin Boo he just saw, what do you think he's asking about?
Viz: http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee64 ... upower.jpg

Yeah I kinda already know about the Viz version, as you would have known if you took the time to read all posts, before the edited version of yours, plus I'm pretty much bashing my own version(in the post before yours) for omitting important information, so yeah I had already accepted my defeat by then.

And since this whole topic was concerning the Buff Buu, I think there is nothing left to say.
EDIT: And thanks for clearing many things up, you guys, much appreciated