The Scenario we all would like to discuss

[SephiVA]

There are many human fans out there, so here's a scenario for everybody:
What if Vegeta died after Freeza killed him, but never came back? Add one more thing: Gohan was never born, but for the sake of argument, pretend that for some reason, everything in the Namek saga (as well as before it) still happened the way it was supposed to for some reason. (In situations where Gohan played a key roal, just fill it with someone else who'd be most appropriate for said situation if necessary.)

Start with Mecha Freeza landing on earth. There is no trunks, because Vegeta wasn't around. Gohan was never born, so no him either. The only living Saiyan in this scenario is Goku. Also, to make this more interesting..add one more factor: Goku never got the heart virus.


Okay, start discussing what would happen, as well as what the fate of the humans, earth and Goku would be. (In this argument we are only covering the Dragonball Z anime/manga. No movies, no GT, etc.)

[omegacwa]

Hmm... This is very interesting...

If there is no Gohan, then I think the logical choice for his replacement would be Tenshinhan. He is the only other human that might have been able to survive the Saiyan Saga. I would say Yamcha, but his death is too important, and you can't say Piccolo cause his death is far too important.

So I would say, Ten, Krillin and Bulma go to Namek, that is with Ten surviving, with one arm too, that would be pretty cool. If the same characters still have to die though, that means Yajirobe has to go to Namek, or just Krillin and Bulma.

Also if there is no Gohan, Vegeta or Trunks, the humans would have to be a lot more important, and most likely would have found some way to power up further, not exactly "super human" but maybe some sort of spiritual power up type thing.

[caejones]

The entire deal with Gero's creations... O.O I don't even know how that would go.

I mean, Gohan was supposed to be the only surviver in the future, but ... if we're letting Goku escape the Heart Virus, then... O.O *Head explodes*

*Somehow winds up picturing Mirai Goten negotiating with ChiChi regarding #17 and #18* :shocked:

[Makaioshin]

Mecha Freeza lands on earth but Goku uses the Shunkan Ido to get to where Freeza is and kills both him and King Cold like he apparently did in the main time line. No one comes to warn them of the Artificial Humans so #20 and #19 would (arguably, I guess) defeat(by that I mean kill) all the dragon warriors. If not them then the other Artificial Humans would. Whatever happened in Future Trunks' time line regarding Babidi and Dabra happens in this timeline. So yeah, Artificial Humans rule the world. The end.

[SephiVA]

Personally...I think without the other Saiyans, earth would be fucked. The humans have no possible way to compare to a Saiyan's level, its been shown signs of that as early as Dragonball itself..look at the difference between Goku and everyone else...and that gap only got larger. Androids can take down a Super Saiyan by themselves. Cell may've happened differently though....I also wonder what it means for the Buu Saga time period as well.

Mecha Freeza lands on earth but Goku uses the Shunkan Ido to get to where Freeza is and kills both him and King Cold like he apparently did in the main time-line. No one comes to warn them of the Artificial Humans so #20 and #19 would (arguably, I guess) defeat(by that I mean kill) all the Dragon Warriors. If not them then the other Artificial Humans would. Whatever happened in Future Trunks' time line regarding Babidi and Dabra happens in this timeline. So yeah, Artificial Humans rule the world. The end.

I'm not so sure its that simple at all...I think it MIGHT be a war between Babidi, Dabura and Buu against the androids at the least..and who knows..MAYBE Goku might be able to kill at least 17 or 18 (sense its doubtful he could kill them both)...and I'm damn sure he'd have no troubles against 19 and 20. I'm still not too sure what'd happen. It does go to show you though...as much as people whine about the Saiyans having a bigger role than the humans..without them, said humans would probably be dead.

[Ahiru77]

Only Goku, huh....

Okay, based on Goku's career. He fights Mecha Freeza and King Cold. He can't believe Freeza hasn't changed a bit. He fights him, but Freeza is surprisingly strong. Oh no!!

The Z-fighters arrive. King Cold gives them a good beatdown. Goku is upset. (Nooo...Krillin, Yamcha, Ten...Piccolo.)

SSJ Goku decides he won't give anymore second chances. He loads the Genki-dama, but Freeza warns his father about it. Just as they are about to attack Goku, the others get up!!! Piccolo fires a surprise SBC which disables King Cold's leg. This distracts Freeza as Ten, Krillin and Yamcha triple attack.

Freeza, held down by them, tries to summon soldiers but Bulma bazooka's the ship killing them all. (Yes, she has firearms now.)

The Genki-dama loads quickly because Goku is a SSJ and the Z-fighters give their strenght too. One final shout....and bam!! It's finally over. Freeza and King Cold are dead. *closes storybook*

The end. Androids don't exist, dear.

[Rocketman]

Goku singlehandedly kills Freeza and King Kold, just as he did in Trunks' timeline.

With Vegeta dead, the Earth setup mostly returns to how it was before Raditz landed. Piccolo has changed enough from absorbing Nail that he doesn't want to conquer the Earth, but Goku is still his rival and the two spar together.

Trunks doesn't exist to give the warning, so the first indication of the Androids is the obliteration of South City. As the Z fighters can't sense any hostile ki, they assume it was some odd natural phenomenon. Then 19 and 20 attack Goku's home.

Without the heart virus crippling him, Goku is barely able to defeat 19. Krillin is the first to arrive after feeling Goku's Super Saiyan power, and he saves Goku's life with a Kienzan that misses but forces 20 to stop draining Goku's energy.

Piccolo arrives next and tag-teams with Krillin to fight #20. As they know he can drain energy, they're able to avoid his hands/cover each other from getting grabbed. 20 is forced to retreat, vowing that Androids 17 and 18 will return to destroy them.

They abandon Goku's house, since the androids obviously know where it is, and he, Piccolo and Goku retreat to the Lookout, where Goku is recharged with Senzu. Realizing that this '17 and 18' are likely to be even stronger, Goku and Piccolo enter the Time Chamber. Krillin returns to Goku's house to see if they show up.

A day later, they do, Krillin is unable to convince them to cease looking for Goku, but by spiking his power he calls Goku and Piccolo there.

The newly powered up duo crush 18 easily, and 17 is overwhelmed by the triple team-up. Since there is no Trunks to have a time machine, the only Cell is the baby growing in the lab.

When Babidi and Dabura arrive, Piccolo falls for the mind control on purpose and beats Goku down. Without Super Saiyan 2, though, there's not enough energy to revive Buu. Majin Piccolo leaves Goku alive and returns to Babidi's side...then attacks and kills him, breaking the spell over Dabura and ensuring Buu will never be released.

[Deep Thought]

Huh, a post from Rocketman that's not cynical or subtly implying someth- ooooooh, I see what you did there.

But yeah, I pretty much agree with him, and that scenario would make a neat little 1 hour special or something.

[dbgtFO]

Huh, a post from Rocketman that's not cynical or subtly implying someth- ooooooh, I see what you did there.

But yeah, I pretty much agree with him, and that scenario would make a neat little 1 hour special or something.

Yeah Rocketman is pretty happy for this alternate universe of the story.
Kulilin shoud stop being so effing stupid and just kill every enemy with a taiyoken/kienzan combination, simple as that, but since, that will never happen(only in cool fanfics like DBM) he would have to get some help from Tenshinhans very potent Kikoho technique to be able to do something.

[Gaffer Tape]

Trunks doesn't exist to give the warning, so the first indication of the Androids is the obliteration of South City.

Why? This is the second time I've seen this stated as fact in this thread. Just because Trunks doesn't exist, why is nobody warned? Quite honestly, ANYBODY could have come back in time to hand over medicine and talk about the future. Trunks isn't unique in that regard. As long as Bulma was around to build the time machine, most likely someone would have arrived to warn Goku. So I call shenanigans on that.

[Rocketman]

Why? This is the second time I've seen this stated as fact in this thread. Just because Trunks doesn't exist, why is nobody warned?

Because the Androids don't destroy everything.

Huh, a post from Rocketman that's not cynical or subtly implying someth- ooooooh, I see what you did there.

Why, whatever do you mean?

[Gaffer Tape]

Why? This is the second time I've seen this stated as fact in this thread. Just because Trunks doesn't exist, why is nobody warned?

Because the Androids don't destroy everything.

Again. Why wouldn't they have?

[Rocketman]

Again. Why wouldn't they have?

I just told you. Goku and Piccolo stop them after a stint in the Time Chamber.

[Asura]

The whole reason Trunks went back was to give Goku the heart virus medicine, without Goku obtaining the heart virus, Goku wouldn't die from that, thus meaning that no one would have to go back in time to give him the medicine to save their timelines future

[Gaffer Tape]

Again. Why wouldn't they have?

I just told you. Goku and Piccolo stop them after a stint in the Time Chamber.

Okay, okay, so that's how your assumption of the scenario plays out, not necessarily how it would have to play out. I getcha.

[Suupaa Gohan 2]

For the most part I agree with Rocketman's analysis, however one thing that bugs me is the notion that #19 and #20 would factor in at all. Weren't they a result of Trunks going back in time which fucked shit up for the other various timelines? Without someone going back in time (and without Trunks, we're assuming no one does so, especially without Gokou's heart disease and the need to), then wouldn't the 'main' timeline still play out similarly to Trunks' future - with only #17 and #18 to worry about? No #19, no #20, no #16. They shouldn't be involved in this alternate interpretation at all, as far as I see it...am I missing something, here?

[dbgtFO]

For the most part I agree with Rocketman's analysis, however one thing that bugs me is the notion that #19 and #20 would factor in at all. Weren't they a result of Trunks going back in time which fucked shit up for the other various timelines? Without someone going back in time (and without Trunks, we're assuming no one does so, especially without Goku's heart disease and the need to), then wouldn't the 'main' timeline still play out similarly to Trunks' future - with only #17 and #18 to worry about? No #19, no #20, no #16. They shouldn't be involved in this alternate interpretation at all, as far as I see it...am I missing something, here?

Not necessarily check out this thread: http://daizex.fanboyreview.net/viewtopi ... =7&t=14557
Edit: and yes you are missing something.

[SephiVA]

Goku singlehandedly kills Freeza and King Kold, just as he did in Trunks' timeline.

With Vegeta dead, the Earth setup mostly returns to how it was before Raditz landed. Piccolo has changed enough from absorbing Nail that he doesn't want to conquer the Earth, but Goku is still his rival and the two spar together.

Trunks doesn't exist to give the warning, so the first indication of the Androids is the obliteration of South City. As the Z fighters can't sense any hostile ki, they assume it was some odd natural phenomenon. Then 19 and 20 attack Goku's home.

Without the heart virus crippling him, Goku is barely able to defeat 19. Krillin is the first to arrive after feeling Goku's Super Saiyan power, and he saves Goku's life with a Kienzan that misses but forces 20 to stop draining Goku's energy.

Piccolo arrives next and tag-teams with Krillin to fight #20. As they know he can drain energy, they're able to avoid his hands/cover each other from getting grabbed. 20 is forced to retreat, vowing that Androids 17 and 18 will return to destroy them.

They abandon Goku's house, since the androids obviously know where it is, and he, Piccolo and Goku retreat to the Lookout, where Goku is recharged with Senzu. Realizing that this '17 and 18' are likely to be even stronger, Goku and Piccolo enter the Time Chamber. Krillin returns to Goku's house to see if they show up.

A day later, they do, Krillin is unable to convince them to cease looking for Goku, but by spiking his power he calls Goku and Piccolo there.

The newly powered up duo crush 18 easily, and 17 is overwhelmed by the triple team-up. Since there is no Trunks to have a time machine, the only Cell is the baby growing in the lab.

When Babidi and Dabura arrive, Piccolo falls for the mind control on purpose and beats Goku down. Without Super Saiyan 2, though, there's not enough energy to revive Buu. Majin Piccolo leaves Goku alive and returns to Babidi's side...then attacks and kills him, breaking the spell over Dabura and ensuring Buu will never be released.

Aside from Goku having any sorta trouble with Andorid 19, and the fact I doubt they'd just ASSUME its a natural thing (I'm damn sure they'd at least investigate it) ....other than those things I'd say your story is very likely....thanks for the worthwhile reply.

EDIT: Actually, there's a few factors to ask about: Why would Piccolo become a Majin? Would Piccolo have fused with Kami like he does in the actual DBZ? Also, wouldn't they have to fight Dabura sense he's no longer under Babidi's spell..which would mean they'd have to fight someone of the level of Regular Perfect Cell, which is there any guarantee they'd be ready to fight him?

[ThunderPX]

(snip)

Aside from Goku having any sorta trouble with Andorid 19, and the fact I doubt they'd just ASSUME its a natural thing (I'm damn sure they'd at least investigate it) ....other than those things I'd say your story is very likely....thanks for the worthwhile reply.

EDIT: Actually, there's a few factors to ask about: Why would Piccolo become a Majin? Would Piccolo have fused with Kami like he does in the actual DBZ? Also, wouldn't they have to fight Dabura sense he's no longer under Babidi's spell..which would mean they'd have to fight someone of the level of Regular Perfect Cell, which is there any guarantee they'd be ready to fight him?

Since there's no reason to assume there are beings without ki even exist, let alone that they're responsible, I think the Z fighters would eventually be like "Well, this is really odd, but there's nothing that points to intentional destruction, and even if that were the case, we wouldn't know who was behind it."

Plus, we see in the series that Goku has trouble with Android 19 when the virus sets in. Whether he would even have beaten him in the end is left up in the air, since Vegeta interrupts.

Piccolo wouldn't have merged with Kami, since Cell's presence is the catalyst for that happening. It's possible Dabura wouldn't be interested in doing anything on Earth after being released from Babidi's spell. If he did become hostile, however, Piccolo might end up merging with Kami anyway, and Goku and Piccolo could double-team him. If that doesn't work, they might be screwed since Goku never finds out about Fusion.

[Rocketman]

Aside from Goku having any sorta trouble with Andorid 19

Without the specific goal of "facing the Androids", Goku didn't train as intensely as he did in the series.

and the fact I doubt they'd just ASSUME its a natural thing (I'm damn sure they'd at least investigate it)

I didn't mean to imply they all just go "whatevers" and blow it off, but they have no reason to suspect anything without Trunks' warning.

Actually, there's a few factors to ask about: Why would Piccolo become a Majin?

He falls to Babidi's spell in order to get close to him and kill him. He fights Goku so Babidi won't get suspicious.

Would Piccolo have fused with Kami like he does in the actual DBZ?

No, because there's never a threat that serious until Dabura shows up. If Kami finds out he was going to die naturally sometime in the seven years, they would, I think.

Also, wouldn't they have to fight Dabura sense he's no longer under Babidi's spell..which would mean they'd have to fight someone of the level of Regular Perfect Cell, which is there any guarantee they'd be ready to fight him?

My general feeling is that Dabura is evil, but also twisted to serve Babidi. While I don't think he'd become best pals with Goku and Piccolo after Babidi's death, he's also the King of the Demon World and he's been forced to kowtow to that little bastard and abandon his realm for hundreds of years.

In other words, he's got no reason to fight Goku and Piccolo, so he doesn't.