If you really think about it, the Japanese DragonBox isn't..

[Kendamu]

It's best that it's not on the DBox.

I'm don't think that's entirely fair. I know I sound like a broken record but not caring about an extra feature vs. actually celebrating it's absence are two different things. If there was some technical reason the broadcast audio couldn't have been included (even as just a stereo 2.0 track which takes up very little space) then so be it. But if it was kept out just for the hell of it? That's not a good thing. Particularly for the fans (admittedly small in number) who like the broadcast audio yet are aware that the Orange Bricks are visually garbage.

It's unfortunate for you that FUNimation is no longer supporting the broadcast audio. However, a lot of us who were waiting for the US DBox or happen see the broadcast audio (and the reasons behind why they even replaced the real OST in the first place) as downright insulting. The dub itself was an afterthought on the DBox. Putting the broadcast audio on it would just be a reminder to the target audience as to that insult and insults past about fans of the JP version being "just a bunch of angry nerds" and such.

Of course, looking at how the dub cast is acting in regards to Kai versus their previous work (through video interviews and such), their tone has completely shifted and they finally see how TPTB at the time were nothing but goons who really didn't care for the source material whatsoever and they now understand why we were so angry to begin with.

[penguintruth]

It's not a straw man at all. If you get Funimation thinking DBZ is a Funimation-produced work, they will lose respect for what it really is and concentrate on what they want it to be. And what results from that? Something not only different from the intended program, but utter shit to boot.

[nathantheguitarist]

They should use the orange bricks instead of wood for martial arts students to break.

This!

And... sig'ed.

[TonyTheTiger]

It's best that it's not on the DBox.

I'm don't think that's entirely fair. I know I sound like a broken record but not caring about an extra feature vs. actually celebrating it's absence are two different things. If there was some technical reason the broadcast audio couldn't have been included (even as just a stereo 2.0 track which takes up very little space) then so be it. But if it was kept out just for the hell of it? That's not a good thing. Particularly for the fans (admittedly small in number) who like the broadcast audio yet are aware that the Orange Bricks are visually garbage.

It's unfortunate for you that FUNimation is no longer supporting the broadcast audio. However, a lot of us who were waiting for the US DBox or happen see the broadcast audio (and the reasons behind why they even replaced the real OST in the first place) as downright insulting. The dub itself was an afterthought on the DBox. Putting the broadcast audio on it would just be a reminder to the target audience as to that insult and insults past about fans of the JP version being "just a bunch of angry nerds" and such.

I don't particularly care about the broadcast track. Hell, I'm not even a huge fan of any of the Dragon Ball scores, Kikuchi included. I've heard much better music in cartoons in my time. But I can be a bit of an OCD completionist once in a while.

But here's the problem. What I can't shake is that this is passive agressive "nyah, nyah" to the people who would have liked that feature. It's completely senseless to be happy that a feature is not included if it could have been put in without sacrificing anything else. You'll have to forgive me for raising a cynical eye to the situation because all it comes off to me is "YES! Now it's their turn to feel left out! Score! Victory is ours! Watch those dub losers cry moar!" That was juvenile when "dubbies" did it to "subbies" and it's juvenile when it's the reverse. This "time to turn the tables" attitude does nobody any good. We really should be well beyond that. There's no benefit to not having everything in one nice package.

It's not a straw man at all. If you get Funimation thinking DBZ is a Funimation-produced work, they will lose respect for what it really is and concentrate on what they want it to be. And what results from that? Something not only different from the intended program, but utter shit to boot.

Are you talking about everybody in general or just Funimation? Funimation specifically, at least with DBZ, has sort of run away with things, true. But declaring the slippery slope for everything in the world, all localizations ever, is pretty bold.

[penguintruth]

It's not a matter of laughing at the misfortune of others, but a good feeling about the company phasing out their incorrect practices of the past.

[jjgp1112]

I don't particularly care about the broadcast track. Hell, I'm not even a huge fan of any of the Dragon Ball scores, Kikuchi included. I've heard much better music in cartoons in my time. But I can be a bit of an OCD completionist once in a while.

But here's the problem. What I can't shake is that this is passive agressive "nyah, nyah" to the people who would have liked that feature. It's completely senseless to be happy that a feature is not included if it could have been put in without sacrificing anything else. You'll have to forgive me for raising a cynical eye to the situation because all it comes off to me is "YES! Now it's their turn to feel left out! Score! Victory is ours! Watch those dub losers cry moar!" That was juvenile when "dubbies" did it to "subbies" and it's juvenile when it's the reverse. This "time to turn the tables" attitude does nobody any good. We really should be well beyond that. There's no benefit to not having everything in one nice package.

Thank you for saying what I've been unable to find a non-angry way of saying for a while. That whole playground mentality is just downright silly.

[TonyTheTiger]

It's not a matter of laughing at the misfortune of others, but a good feeling about the company phasing out their incorrect practices of the past.

But an optional feature is an optional feature. Regardless whether it was a "mistake" or not, it's easily ignored by people who don't care about it.

I don't know French and have no interest in French dubs but how would it reflect on me to turn around and say "You know what? I wish that French version wasn't included on the Beauty and the Beast Blu-ray. I'd love it if it weren't there."

That doesn't come off as asinine to you?

[VegettoEX]

I'm gonna call bullshit on you, penguintruth. I can man-up and admit that there's a part of me back there that's chuckling a little bit about how the replacement dub score is no longer included, and based on your attitudes and logic expressed elsewhere AND in this own thread, I know you've got the same. Don't try to pretend it's not there, man. It is. You know it is.

The rest of what you said is totally fine and legit, so don't dilute it with this stuff.

[penguintruth]

I never denied that I didn't get some smug satisfaction out of it, I'm simply saying that it's not really an overriding feeling. I'm not as petty as you think.

Because regardless, the dub music was a mistake that should never have existed. Phasing it out the right thing to do.

[TonyTheTiger]

I never denied that I didn't get some smug satisfaction out of it, I'm simply saying that it's not really an overriding feeling. I'm not as petty as you think.

Fair enough. But can we at least agree feeling that way isn't a good thing? It really doesn't solve any problems. If anything it causes more friction whenever a loathe sub/dub argument arises. I was always of the mindset that if the Dragon Box had everything on it everybody could just agree by virtue of having the exact same "perfect" version. That's essentially the ideal in my personal fantasy world.

[Kendamu]

I don't particularly care about the broadcast track. Hell, I'm not even a huge fan of any of the Dragon Ball scores, Kikuchi included. I've heard much better music in cartoons in my time. But I can be a bit of an OCD completionist once in a while.

Then you'll need to collect the Ocean/Blue Water stuff as well. Just sayin'.

But here's the problem. What I can't shake is that this is passive agressive "nyah, nyah" to the people who would have liked that feature. It's completely senseless to be happy that a feature is not included if it could have been put in without sacrificing anything else. You'll have to forgive me for raising a cynical eye to the situation because all it comes off to me is "YES! Now it's their turn to feel left out! Score! Victory is ours! Watch those dub losers cry moar!" That was juvenile when "dubbies" did it to "subbies" and it's juvenile when it's the reverse. This "time to turn the tables" attitude does nobody any good. We really should be well beyond that.

After being treated like black sheep for more than a decade by both fans and FUNimation, you kind of want to flip the bird at those very people (well, fans... FUNimation apologized with the DBox) who treated you badly. Yes, it's juvenile, but wanting retribution is a part of human nature. Especially after such a long time of being told that we're in the wrong for wanting things as they should've been in the first place. How can you not expect some of that to happen?

There's no benefit to not having everything in one nice package.

It'd be a contradiction to have both on there.

"Here ya go, DBZ purists! Dragonball Z as it really is! Also we put the broadcast OST on there."

If that's not enough for you, let's go back to that whole, "FUNi leaving previous mistakes behind," and, "The dub OST is an insult to our intelligence," stuff that's been floating around since at least the first announcement of the US DBox. The benefit is to leave past mistakes behind as much as possible.

[AnimeMaakuo]

FUNimation shouldn't be trying to take credit for something that's not theirs. All they have done is confuse the crap out of fans, and re-released the same thing, saying it's better than this and that. Their English dub scripting is absoultely out of place. It's understandable that kids would watch it, but growing up, I want to watch the full raw Japanese material (full experience). I've grown up with the JP material. For now, I'm speaking for other people I know. Even my friends will say that the English they grew up with was tampered and dumbed down .. However .. that's our opinion. For a fact, FUNimation dubbed it down to a kids level of understanding, now that's a fact. I even made my brother watch the Japanese, and he said he didn't get some of the jokes or lines. When he watched the English, he understood it better, but doesn't like it. I will be fair and say that FUNimation has done an improvement on "Kai," (Which I don't like) but it still annoys me when they tamper with the scripting and releases. "Kai" is nothing but another adaption, it's a cut up version of the already existing version.

[TonyTheTiger]

I don't particularly care about the broadcast track. Hell, I'm not even a huge fan of any of the Dragon Ball scores, Kikuchi included. I've heard much better music in cartoons in my time. But I can be a bit of an OCD completionist once in a while.

Then you'll need to collect the Ocean/Blue Water stuff as well. Just sayin'.

Touche.

But, yeah, I'm crazy but I'm not that crazy. The reason I never bought the Orange Bricks is because they offend me. No OCD is going to change that.

As for everything else, I just don't see the point of there not being a complete release. At least a complete North American English release (sans Ocean for obvious reasons). We wouldn't even be having this discussion if everything were available on a single collection. "I want the best quality!" "Get the Dragon Box!" "I want the complete Japanese version, NEPs and all!" "Get the Dragon Box!" "I like the dub!" "Get the Dragon Box!" That's an easy way to make friends, isn't it?

It's not that I don't understand the feelings. It's that I don't think it's particularly productive. For a series about friendship and uniting together for a greater good, there's an awful lot of unnecessary animosity in the fan community.

[Kendamu]

I don't particularly care about the broadcast track. Hell, I'm not even a huge fan of any of the Dragon Ball scores, Kikuchi included. I've heard much better music in cartoons in my time. But I can be a bit of an OCD completionist once in a while.

Then you'll need to collect the Ocean/Blue Water stuff as well. Just sayin'.

Touche.

But, yeah, I'm crazy but I'm not that crazy. The reason I never bought the Orange Bricks is because they offend me. No OCD is going to change that.

As for everything else, I just don't see the point of there not being a complete release. At least a complete North American English release (sans Ocean for obvious reasons). We wouldn't even be having this discussion if everything were available on a single collection. "I want the best quality!" "Get the Dragon Box!" "I want the complete Japanese version, NEPs and all!" "Get the Dragon Box!" "I like the dub!" "Get the Dragon Box!" That's an easy way to make friends, isn't it?

It's not that I don't understand the feelings. It's that I don't think it's particularly productive. For a series about friendship and uniting together for a greater good, there's an awful lot of unnecessary animosity in the fan community.

If you're worried about friendship and uniting together for a greater good, the Dragonbox is the least of your worries online. Most DBZ fans on the Internet are outright mean! I've been shunned for watching the Dragonbox "becuz fullscreen sux hurr hurr," I've been given very similar treatment for watching the show in Japanese in general, and I've been banned from places for not preferring Linda Young. If it weren't for Daizenshuu EX, I wouldn't talk about Dragonball on the Internet at all because most fans I come across are just a bunch of petty shitbags with anger issues and no specific super-mega-awesome release is going to change that ever. Instead, people would just argue the same stuff and give each other grief over what they did or didn't do on the Settings menu.

Now, amongst the rest of the casual DBZ fan population who doesn't talk about Dragonball on the Internet, I think we're in the clear. They're a nice bunch who aren't too picky and don't care what you watch on your own.

[AnimeMaakuo]

There's an awful lot of unnecessary animosity in the fan community because some company named FUNimation screwed people over, and over, and over, and over. If you want to tell that to someone, write FUNimation a letter. If France wanted to make a DBox of DBZ, then they would do it, but they don't because there is not high enough demand.
As for fans being shitbags, yeah, I've been shunned for watching the Japanese material.. Mocked at.. But I don't care really, I have a life.

[TonyTheTiger]

There's an awful lot of unnecessary animosity in the fan community because some company named FUNimation screwed people over, and over, and over, and over.

So let's fight fire with fire? Some people are going to suck and, yeah, maybe no "perfect" release will change that. But no reason to let them drag you down to the same bullshit. I think people who prefer the Orange Bricks are crazy. But, hell, it ain't my eyes watching that so more power to them.

[Kendamu]

There's an awful lot of unnecessary animosity in the fan community because some company named FUNimation screwed people over, and over, and over, and over.

So let's fight fire with fire? Some people are going to suck and, yeah, maybe no "perfect" release will change that. But no reason to let them drag you down with them.

We're not. We had our little "nyah, nyah" when the US Dbox was announced, then we moved on with our lives and started enjoying the releases. It's only when people bring it back up that those feelings even come back.

[AnimeMaakuo]

FUNimation will never drag me down, that's why I bought the JP box sets when I was in Japan. Now I don't have to buy release, after release, after release lol. I respect the U.S Dbox though!

Has FUNimation actully done something right for once? That's you call.

Yeah, the U.S Dbox was fine, everyone was happy, but like he said, it's when people bring it back up. >.<

[TonyTheTiger]

We had our little "nyah, nyah" when the US Dbox was announced, then we moved on with our lives and started enjoying the releases. It's only when people bring it back up that those feelings even come back.

But that's a bad thing. That's the whole point. Those feelings shouldn't be there at all. I get that people can't control how they feel but, I mean, it's still not cool.

[AnimeMaakuo]

How is it bad? Are you freaken serious? U.S Dragon Ball fans have been cheated out of release, after release, after release!!! How can you for one second think that FINNALY getting something to be happy about it wrong? Explain?
FUNimation is greedy, like it said, it's not their job to satisfy other country fans, let alone their own, until the N.A. DBox. If other countries want their own Dbox, they will have to get it themselves through their own market. Not trying to be a selfish prick, but that's life.