Cell and the Genki Dama

Alienman24 · Post by **Alienman24** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 12:17 pm

Ok, I know DBZ budokai (1) is just a game and far from cannon however it made me think. I should also probably mention that I’m poor and don’t have any of the other buokai games. Any who, in the game Cell can execute a spirit bomb. Do you think Cell could really do that in the anime or do you think his DNA from Goku would not grant him such a powerful technique? I don’t think Cell could use a spirit bomb, and if he tried, who would give him energy? Would it come from the souls he’s absorbed? What do you guys think, could Cell really use a spirit bomb? And if so how powerful would it be?

Akira · Post by **Akira** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 1:24 pm

Aside from him stating in the anime that he probably -could- form a Spirit Bomb if he wanted to, there is no other anime specific evidence. (I think he was talking to Trunks if memory serves correct.)

The Spirit Bomb, or Genki-Dama if you prefer, was North Kaio's ultimate attack technique that he taught to Son Goku. It requires a calm mind and the ability to draw in pure energy. It, unlike other attack techniques is specific. It is a "good" or "righteous" attack against evil. Recall that Krillin fired Son Goku's first Spirit Bomb and missed Vegeta. It was on a straight course with Son Gohan, but deflected off the boy because he was also pure of heart. Therefore it did not injure him at all. Vegeta took the attack head on and it tore him up royally but did not kill him.

I take a bit of liberty with this next statement, but I always assumed that the attack did not kill him because he was not entirely evil. Even though he maimed and killed, there was still a portion of good in Vegeta that he kept surpressed deep within.

Son Goku used the Spirit Bomb against Frieza and it would very well have killed such a being of total evil as he, but he managed to get out from under it and escape the main part of the blast. However it still blew away a portion of his tail.

(I am bringing this all to a point by the way)

Son Goku believed the Spirit Bomb to be an obsolete technique after it failed to kill Frieza. So he did not try it against Cell. So, could Cell make one based on the information we know? That cannot be determined for certain. I do think that Cell being a creature of evil would be incapable of gathering pure energy like Son Goku and therefore unable to form a Spirit Bomb of the same type or capability. You mentioned the souls he took and other such negative energies? Sure I suppose it is possible that he could create a counter Spirit bomb or negative energy version that would destroy good. However there is no evidence to support the idea either way beyond a single comment made by Cell.

The most likeliness of matter is that Cell came from the future where Goku had died and never had used the Spirit Bomb after the battle with Frieza. His data and even his genetic knowledge of those he was made up of would tell him that the move was considered obsolete at the time. I think his even mentioning the possibility of creating one was more or less a boast of his power and nothing more.

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On a side note, in reference to all of this, I think that would explain Vegeta's decision to have Son use the Spirit Bomb against Majin Buu at the very end. He'd been hit by it and knew all too well that it attacked and destroyed evil. Son Goku still had the thoughts of the Frieza battle in his mind when Vegeta suggests his plan, but Vegeta suspected that the Frieza battle had been a fluke and that the Spirit Bomb was indeed the answer to thier current problem with Majin Buu.

All other attack techniques could be used either way, Final Flash, Kamehameha, good or evil, they were merely damage dealers that Majin Buu could recover from. Vegeta had blown himself up trying to stop Buu and even that much energy wasn't enough. A technique that targets and destroys the very root of evil was the obvious answer in Vegeta's mind, and his gamble paid off in the end.

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 2:09 pm

With why Vegeta survived it, I figured that it had to do with the fact Goku had lost some of the original energy he had for it. If he hit the regular-form Vegeta with the full energy he originally had gathered, it would have finished him off. As for Frieza, his fourth form was a hell of lot stronger than anyone had known, even himself. Remember he said that he was surprised he was still alive. If he was in any of his previous forms when hit, he certainly would have been killed.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 4:05 pm

Lots of lengthy posts that I didn't bother to read because of 1 obvious fact:

Cell can use ANY techniques of Goku that he knew up to when his cells were taken. That included the Genkidama. Cell tells us this in both the anime and the manga.

Gamingdevil · Post by **Gamingdevil** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:52 pm

Dayspring wrote:Lots of lengthy posts that I didn't bother to read because of 1 obvious fact:

Cell can use ANY techniques of Goku that he knew up to when his cells were taken. That included the Genkidama. Cell tells us this in both the anime and the manga.

You should read Akira's post, it has an interesting theory.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 7:07 pm

I think that the reason Vegeta survived the Genki Dama was because he was a strong and tough son of a gun.

MyVisionity · Post by **MyVisionity** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 11:09 pm

Jerseymilk wrote:I think that the reason Vegeta survived the Genki Dama was because he was a strong and tough son of a gun.

That's more or less it.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:59 am

Gamingdevil wrote:
Dayspring wrote:Lots of lengthy posts that I didn't bother to read because of 1 obvious fact:

Cell can use ANY techniques of Goku that he knew up to when his cells were taken. That included the Genkidama. Cell tells us this in both the anime and the manga.
You should read Akira's post, it has an interesting theory.

Doesn't matter. Cell CAN use it. So it draws from the good of people. Who cares? Cell therefore knows how to draw energy from the good of people. Albeit he's evil, he just probably can't block one headed his way. Doesn't mean he can't toss one that he'd make himself.

ChaotixXero · Post by **ChaotixXero** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:22 am

He could aslo gather energy from plants, animals, etc. Can't he?

Fuujin · Post by **Fuujin** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:37 am

That kinda doesn't come up, because supposedly Kaio's techniques are to be performed by the pure of heart, but whatever... We could stretch it and say that Cell's heart is indeed pure, the same way Vegeta's is.

Bejiita · Post by **Bejiita** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:53 am

Maybe Vegeta would have dies if the Genki Dama was at full power but Goku lost half of its power when Oozaru Vegeta attacked him, It then went from Kuririn, to Gohan and then to Vegeta, it got passed around really, maybe that made it lose more power.

As for Genki Dama from Cell, I think it may be possible, but since evil and only evil is harmed by it maybe Cell can produce an evil one. Remember Goku asks for the planet to share it's energy, maybe the planet won't want to share with Cell, in Budokai 3 he does say 'Come on planet! Gimme that stupid energy!' or something like that. In the games Tenshinan and Yamcha fuse, so the game just makes certain abilites possible.

Really though, I don't think Cell could do it.

Also, I remember reading an Akira Toriyama interview and he states that fan mail wanted Vegeta to stay alive, and that if it wasn't for that he would have killed Vegeta off, maybe the Genki Dama was inteded to kill him? Unless Kuririn was intended to, that would have made it kind of like a film. Imagine what planet Namek would have been like without Vegeta?!

ChaotixXero · Post by **ChaotixXero** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 12:11 pm

Everyone would die. Vegeta saved Gohan and Kuririn from Guldo, he took out Dodiria(sp) and Zarbon, he took out Jheese, he kept Freeza from the dragonballs, and he stalled Freeza.

gotenx · Post by **gotenx** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:36 pm

I'm glad that Vegita didn't die. The series would've been very boring and there would probably be no more "DARN YOU KAKAKAKAKAROT!!! WHY CANT I GO SUPERSAIYAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!" drama type scenes.

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:27 pm

I kind of have a feeling that if Toriyama had ended the series with the Frieza saga like he originally intended, Vegeta probably would have stayed dead.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:37 pm

Super Sonic wrote:I kind of have a feeling that if Toriyama had ended the series with the Freeza saga like he originally intended, Vegeta probably would have stayed dead.

I have the feeling a lot of people would have stayed dead. Something tells me only Krillin, Gohan, and Bulma would have gotten off Namek and none of the others would have been revived. (Possibly even only Gohan and Krillin.)

Conan the SSJ · Post by **Conan the SSJ** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:36 pm

It's funny, Toriyama originally wanted Goku to stay in After World when he started the Buu arc , so Gohan could continue being the hero of the series, however he was pressured in by Toei to bring Goku back with the "Grandpa Gohan" technicality (and eventually coming back to full-terms life after Old Kaioshin gave Goku his life force). It would of been very intereesting to see how it would of turned out with Gohan, and up to the point where Gotenks gets absorbed, Gohan does have the "heroic feel" that he'll be the one to put an end to Buu. But no question about it, Toriyama did an amazing job at making the Buu arc the most unpredictable saga of the entire trilogy (and that inlcudes all 3 DB series').

Fuujin · Post by **Fuujin** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:02 am

Actually, I think it worked out better for Goku the way it did (well, aside from all the broken bones and stuff). When he had all the shared energy, the Genki Dama was 2 times more powerful... But he intended to throw it at Oozaru Vegeta, who was 10 times more powerful!

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:25 am

Actually it was the fans that wanted Goku to be brought back as the hero in the manga, so he brought him back. Then the anime of course followed suit.

Conan the SSJ · Post by **Conan the SSJ** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:20 am

Jerseymilk wrote:Actually it was the fans that wanted Goku to be brought back as the hero in the manga, so he brought him back. Then the anime of course followed suit.

My mistake, however I do wish Toriyama wouldn't of caved to the fans, it's his story not theirs/ours.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:33 am

Well, unfortunately, I think that his editor was likely pressuring him too, just like the other incidences where he couldn't end it at the Freeza saga and with changing the androids.