Dragonball Kai (FUNimation English) Dub: General Discussion

[Suupaa Gohan 2]

I just realized that for the Ginyu Force song, they should've used "Ginyu Force go! Ginyu Force go!" instead of "Ginyu Force rules! Ginyu Force rules!."

It would've made more sense in the whole parody side of things, that being "Go!" has been a part of damn-near every Power Rangers theme over the past 17 years.

I prefer 'Ginyu Force Rules'. I prefer it to 'Tokusentai'. The first time I heard it I was laughing my ass off, because between the cheesy nature and the voice Sabat was using to sing it, it sounded like something straight out of Shin-Chan. And since these guys are meant to be pretty oddball, that kind of hilarious cheesiness fit fantastically.

[linkdude20002001]

I just realized that for the Ginyu Force song, they should've used "Ginyu Force go! Ginyu Force go!" instead of "Ginyu Force rules! Ginyu Force rules!."

It would've made more sense in the whole parody side of things, that being "Go!" has been a part of damn-near every Power Rangers theme over the past 17 years.

I was originally hoping they'd say "Gi'nyu Force, go!", but alas, they seemed to fail to get the Super Sentai parody of it all.

[TheBlackPaladin]

I just realized that for the Ginyu Force song, they should've used "Ginyu Force go! Ginyu Force go!" instead of "Ginyu Force rules! Ginyu Force rules!."

It would've made more sense in the whole parody side of things, that being "Go!" has been a part of damn-near every Power Rangers theme over the past 17 years.

I was originally hoping they'd say "Gi'nyu Force, go!", but alas, they seemed to fail to get the Super Sentai parody of it all.

I wouldn't go that far. Keep in mind, "Ginyu Force Go!" isn't part of the original translation of the song, so just because they didn't refer to Power Rangers in their revised translation doesn't necessarily mean that they didn't get it.

[linkdude20002001]

"Ginyu Force Rules" doesn't sound Super Sentai-ish, though... While "Tokusentai!" certainly does. Maybe they noticed but just didn't care...?

[Suupaa Gohan 2]

But the only Super Sentai show with any presence in the US is Power Rangers, and I'm not even sure that's more than cult-popular anymore. I mean, that was a fad when I was in elementary school. It can't have that much presence anymore. The intended audience for Dragonball Kai in America wouldn't get a Super Sentai joke, so what would be the point? It's not necessarily that they didn't get it or that they didn't care, but you have to realize that the audience is very different here than in Japan. More likely than not, the only type of people who would get that kind of joke are the ones who regular this board.

[nathantheguitarist]

Every kid has Power Rangers. It does have the older cult following, but it also has the kids who'd get it. Power Rangers just isn't a giant merchandise conundrum anymore.

Saban buying back the rights, they announced that the older series will be replayed on Nicktoons, as well as new episodes being on Nickelodeon. If anything, the drop in popularity is Disney's lack of actual marketing of it.

[Kendamu]

But the only Super Sentai show with any presence in the US is Power Rangers, and I'm not even sure that's more than cult-popular anymore. I mean, that was a fad when I was in elementary school. It can't have that much presence anymore. The intended audience for Dragonball Kai in America wouldn't get a Super Sentai joke, so what would be the point? It's not necessarily that they didn't get it or that they didn't care, but you have to realize that the audience is very different here than in Japan. More likely than not, the only type of people who would get that kind of joke are the ones who regular this board.

I totally agree, but at the same time it wouldn't have hurt those kids in any way if it was "go" instead of "rules."

I like the song as-is, but "go" would've been funnier to me.

[Gaffer Tape]

But the only Super Sentai show with any presence in the US is Power Rangers, and I'm not even sure that's more than cult-popular anymore. I mean, that was a fad when I was in elementary school. It can't have that much presence anymore. The intended audience for Dragonball Kai in America wouldn't get a Super Sentai joke, so what would be the point? It's not necessarily that they didn't get it or that they didn't care, but you have to realize that the audience is very different here than in Japan. More likely than not, the only type of people who would get that kind of joke are the ones who regular this board.

Well, no, not exactly. Power Rangers is a series. Super Sentai is the series that Power Rangers corresponds to. So that's like saying, "The only Go-Lion show with any presence in the US is Voltron." Now, you're probably referring to Mighty Morphin Power Rangers, which corresponds to three years of Super Sentai: Zyuranger, Dairanger, and Kakuranger, and you're right that that's the only incarnation that the mainstream population (who are adults) remembers. But every Super Sentai year through 2008 was adapted into Power Rangers, and it's still quite a hit with children (I was working at Disney Store last Christmas, and Power Rangers RPM was the second-best-selling "boy" toy behind Cars), so Super Sentai certainly does have a continuing presence in America, even if it's not nearly as big as it used to be.

[obiwan23s]

I wouldn't say he shines. It's more like he's now tolerable.

I actually agree. I couldn't seriously accept Schemmel's voice for Goku in Z. It just wasn't as sincere and exciting as Nozawa's. But he is pretty popular for that voice and it pretty much IS Goku to a lot of people. In Kai he's really not that irritating and doesn't bring down the show like he used to, mostly thanks to the script now not being written by people smoking weed in the breakroom. If anything you just sigh a little bit and go on enjoying the dub, the rest of it is really decent. But honestly, they wouldn't have possibly recast him. Even more than Sabat, he's untouchable on the Dragon Ball dub cast.

[Mewzard]

I wouldn't say he shines. It's more like he's now tolerable.

I actually agree. I couldn't seriously accept Schemmel's voice for Goku in Z. It just wasn't as sincere and exciting as Nozawa's. But he is pretty popular for that voice and it pretty much IS Goku to a lot of people. In Kai he's really not that irritating and doesn't bring down the show like he used to, mostly thanks to the script now not being written by people smoking weed in the breakroom. If anything you just sigh a little bit and go on enjoying the dub, the rest of it is really decent. But honestly, they wouldn't have possibly recast him. Even more than Sabat, he's untouchable on the Dragon Ball dub cast.

I'd say he's pretty sincere and exciting at this point. He's improved as an actor over the years, the script and direction are far better, and he's more actively pushing his work on the role. From what I recall, he insisted on correctly pronouncing Kaio-ken. He even grew much more excited towards Kai when he found out they would be stepping away from the same old same old, and putting it in the new direction. Plus, it doesn't hurt that he's Goku to me, at this point. Nozawa was close to taking favor with me watching the Dragon Boxes through, but the Kai dub helped push what I liked into a better place, and improving other aspects of the role. Plus, there's a certain glee I feel when Schemmel does Goku, a smile that comes to my face, that makes it worth watching in several versions (Edited and Uncut).

And I would say Sabat is far more untouchable...mainly due to being the director of the dub, lol. He calls the shots, and they've been mostly good. The dub's not perfect, but the man really turned it around from what Z was. The uncut dub has a lot going for it, and the Nicktoons version isn't too far off, all things considered (but, the lack of violence, language, and local name censorings is enjoyed).

Next Wednesday can't come soon enough. I need more of my Z Kai fix (I know, it's technically Kai in Japan, but since it skips the awesomeness of early DB, I agree with Z Kai more).

[obiwan23s]

I'm not saying Schemmel's a bad actor, he's just not as memorable a Goku to me as he is to most dub fans. I'll say that Schemmel has a really good chance to bury a lot of his bad past with me if they write the Goku vs Freeza fight correctly this time. He's doing what he can to up his performance but it's still the same voice.

[Mewzard]

I'm not saying Schemmel's a bad actor, he's just not as memorable a Goku to me as he is to most dub fans. I'll say that Schemmel has a really good chance to bury a lot of his bad past with me if they write the Goku vs Freeza fight correctly this time. He's doing what he can to up his performance but it's still the same voice.

It's his natural voice, but slightly lighter, at this point. He's softened it up for the light hearted scenes, yet he's not afraid to gruff it up for the fight stuff, which is appropriate. Just like Nozawa. Casual Goku is much lighter, and calm, while angry Goku is more gruff, and loud. Lots of rough shouting for both Goku, and it fits (I've been watching both Z Kai in English, and the Dragon Boxes in Japanese together, to enjoy both audio, which I am).

.

[Suupaa Gohan 2]

Schemmel honestly isn't bothering me much anymore; I agree he's tolerable, though he can be a bit cringe-worthy during battle scenes, but overall I don't despise his performance the way I did for Z.

I just got through watching the episode where the Ginyu make their grand entrance on Nicktoons again, and for some reason I noticed that, more than in most others, Vegeta's voice was really grating on my nerves. He still sounds so unnatural and stilted, especially when he laughs. Surrounded by the otherwise pretty great performances, it's really noticeable. Watch the scene where he and Kuririn arrive at the Great Elder, and compare his performance to the others. The Great Elder, Dende, Nail, Kuririn and Gohan all sound great, and natural for the most part (I love Colleen as Gohan, but I wouldn't call it 'natural', it just doesn't sound forced/fake), and Sabat's Vegeta still sounds like a character voice. For some reason it really stuck out to me in that scene, not that I haven't noticed/been saying it right along, but...ugh.

I have to give Sabat a lot of credit since he's pulling most of the strings now, and made some fantastic decisions for this Kai dub. If I were him, I certainly wouldn't want to give up my most iconic and probably favorite role. But I really wish he would have bowed out for that one...he's honed his Piccolo to the point where I'd dare say it's on par with McNeil's, and I've really been enjoying it so far. And I remember in the last new episode it felt extremely awkward when Piccolo and Vegeta were talking to each other. It's so obvious that they're voiced by the same person, but one sounds natural and the other just sounds like a forced, raspy caricature of that natural voice. To make a rather extreme comparison, it reminded me of the earlier episodes of Yu-Gi-Oh! Abridged before LittleKuriboh had really given each voice their own distinct sound, and how the Yami voice was just a deeper, more exaggerated version of the Yugi voice. It really takes you out of the scene and makes you say 'hey, it's the same guy, he's just forcing a deeper voice for that character'...and DBZ isn't supposed to be a comedic farce like YGOTAS, where one guy doing all the voices is part of the joke. I know I shouldn't be complaining when we can look back on Season 3 and remember when Sabat was literally doing half the cast, but it just gets to me some times more than others. I wish he had the courage to bow down and recast Vegeta, holding onto Piccolo, Yamcha, and maybe a few more minor roles (his Rikum has its problems, obviously, but he's not a permanent and active member of the cast like both Piccolo and Vegeta are). Would it have been a bold, potentially fandom-dividing decision to recast Vegeta? Of course, but he took those risks with Gohan and Freeza already. I'm sure that despite the backlash, a lot of people would be pleased with a recast Vegeta as well, or at the very least warm up to it over time.

[TheBlackPaladin]

Would it have been a bold, potentially fandom-dividing decision to recast Vegeta? Of course, but he took those risks with Gohan and Freeza already. I'm sure that despite the backlash, a lot of people would be pleased with a recast Vegeta as well, or at the very least warm up to it over time.

There's no freakin' way. No. Freakin. Way.

Dub fans, especially the more casual ones, would EXPLODE with rage if that happened. I know it's hard for you to get in that mind set because you've said you don't really like his Vegeta, so you can't relate to the people who like his performance. You have to understand, though, there are legions of fans who are vowing never to watch Kai because Gohan was re-cast. That was just one role, and I would argue that Stephanie Nadolny isn't as "iconic" in English DBZ fandom as Chris Sabat is. The changes that have been done so far, even the most minor ones, are infuriating the more casual and uninformed fans who don't know about the original DBZ dub's problems. I've heard complaints about Gohan, Bulma, and even the new Freeza voice (with one comment that even said, "He sounds like a girl now and he's not creepy anymore"...I really had to restrain myself after hearing that).

I think the hardcore Daizenshuu-EX poster is sometimes a little unaware of the perceptions of the market at large for DBZ. We here have called the Dragon Boxes the best DVD release of all time, and yet Anime News Network called them, "Just another re-release, keep the orange bricks if you already have them." I know this site has said that the original Japanese version is the only version that can be enjoyed globally, and I think that's true, but within the United States, I would argue that the dub is exponentially more popular and well-known than the subtitled version. To them, that mangled, badly-translated, musically-altered dub of DBZ is DBZ. Suggesting to these fans that they would eventually warm up to a new Vegeta is like suggesting to a subbie that they would eventually warm up to a new Vegeta if Ryo Horikawa was replaced.

[Gaffer Tape]

I think you're confusing "casual" with "hardcore dubbie." I don't think a casual anything would care one way or the other or even notice. It's only the hardcore dub fans who'd even care. But that said, while I'm sure they'd bitch and moan and post scathing comments on YouTube, I don't doubt for a second that they'd still watch it. Because if we know anything about Dragon Ball fans in general is that they'll buy into anything as long as it has a Dragon Ball logo on it. Sounds cynical? Yeah, but it's probably true. Everyone would be kicking and screaming and gnashing their teeth all the way to the store to pick up the next DVD, just like they're doing now with new Gohan and new Freeza and new non-Faulconer music.

[TheBlackPaladin]

I think you're confusing "casual" with "hardcore dubbie." I don't think a casual anything would care one way or the other or even notice. It's only the hardcore dub fans who'd even care. But that said, while I'm sure they'd bitch and moan and post scathing comments on YouTube, I don't doubt for a second that they'd still watch it. Because if we know anything about Dragon Ball fans in general is that they'll buy into anything as long as it has a Dragon Ball logo on it. Sounds cynical? Yeah, but it's probably true. Everyone would be kicking and screaming and gnashing their teeth all the way to the store to pick up the next DVD, just like they're doing now with new Gohan and new Freeza and new non-Faulconer music.

I respectfully disagree. I think they watch the YouTube clips to bitch about it and then don't watch it at all after that. The translation problems with the original DBZ dub just isn't common knowledge. It's not rare knowledge, certainly, but the average DBZ fan doesn't know all things Dragon Ball-related like we do. I've talked to an alarmingly large amount of people who didn't even know that Kai had an uncut release on DVD. They thought the TV version was the only version. They also thought that it was uncut on Toonami (which technically it was, at midnight, but I mean they thought it ran uncut even in the afternoon time slot). The common perception among fans is that Kai is, "An edited-down kiddie version of DBZ. The original (and by that they mean the original English dub) was so much better, it had swearing and blood."

I used to make fun of FUNimation for including the words, "uncut" in all of their DBZ DVD commercials, because I was thinking, "Okay, yeah, we get it by now, you don't do edited DVDs anymore." The reaction I've seen among a lot of DBZ dub fans has totally reversed my opinion. Now I think FUNimation needs to advertise more prominently that they sell an uncut version of Kai.

[Gaffer Tape]

Heh, I'm afraid I have to respectfully disagree as well. I don't feel that those who don't even know what Kai is or how it works can't be classified as hardcore. Those that are invested so much in particular voice actors can't be classified as casual. Those who were never big enough fans in the first place who just sorta stumble into Kai with a small amount of interest aren't going to be the people who are raising hell about voice cast changes. Those also aren't the people who are likely to invest money in it in the first place because it was just some fun thing they casually enjoyed when they were kids. I can see some extremely hardcore dub loyalists blacklisting Kai for being different from what they liked, but those are going to be the ones who are hyper obsessed (perhaps in different ways than we are, but not much less committed). While that's going to put off some, a lot of "hardcore" Dragon Ball fans are like "hardcore" Star Wars fans and simply buy anything Dragon Ball. They'll even buy what they already own even if it's exactly the same as long as it has new box art!

Maybe, though, sorta middle of the road fans... those who were fairly committed fans back in the day but then fell out of it and want their blessed nostalgia but aren't super committed to doing research. I can see them seeing a few changes, being misinformed, and losing interest due to that. I don't know how many people fall into that camp. Don't get me wrong. I agree that FUNimation has done a slipshod job of getting the word out. I just think, for the most part, it's only the middle-of-the-road dub fans that are going to be put off enough by a voice change to not buy it. The super hardcore are going to buy whatever's offered them. The older-school casual fan isn't going to care enough to put down money for it in the first place.

[penguintruth]

Guys, the most casual fans don't care about who voices who or what music is playing. They're just watching a show where guys shoot lasers at each other to pass the time between episodes of WWE Raw. There are probably a huge group of DBZ fans unaware that these arguments are even taking place.

We care because we're a bunch of geeks.

[ohaimynameiserik]

I'm not a hardcore dubbie by any means, but I would have organized a mass suicide in a playground had Chris Sabat gave up Vegeta.

Then again that's just me. But if you have a FUNi version of DBZ... you're getting Sabat as Vegeta. There's NO way they would have messed with that. He's too many people's favorite character and the voice has become something immediately associated with the show.

[linkdude20002001]

That...screams hardcore (times "over 9,000")...!