DragonBall Z Kai TV Network Version (CW4Kids\Toonzai\Vortex)

[Ishtar318]

At this point, it looks like saban were the good guys.....

That actually has me wondering...what do you guys think was worse, the Saban edits made to DBZ or the CW4Kids edits made to Kai?

It's really a mix. Saban constantly used "the next dimension" and other obnoxious death cover up lines such as "too bad it's Sunday, those buildings would have been full by tomorrow" and "I can see their parachutes", but 4kids just ignored death mentions completely by either adding random groans or if they did say cover up lines it was used limitedly such as "he's going to Other World" when Yamcha dies. 4kids has also kept a few scenes that Saban cut out completely such as Yamcha's corpse. On the otherhand, Saban never made Mr. Popo blue, nor did they erase halos, nor change "Spirit Bomb" to "Spirit Blaster."

[TheBlackPaladin]

At this point, it looks like saban were the good guys.....

That actually has me wondering...what do you guys think was worse, the Saban edits made to DBZ or the CW4Kids edits made to Kai?

...nor change "Spirit Bomb" to "Spirit Blaster."

....Wait, what!? You're kidding me.

[Super Sonic]

Everyone I know says even the Japanese version of Magical Doremi was a little girls' cartoon.

Well...look at it. I could've told you that by just watching that short clip

No worries, though. I'm sure I'm not the only one here who was into Sailor Moon back in the day.

As did I. When I mainly think of little girl cartoons, I don't think of Sailor Moon, but moreso My Little Pony and Strawberry Shortcake. That's how Doremi struck me. (To the foreigners and young guys who missed most of the 80s, My Little Pony and Strawberry Shortcake were girls' toy-based cartoons that guys would've gotten a lot of crap for watching. To this day you still won't find many guys who range from mid-20s to mid-30s who will freely admit they watched either of their own accord and not due to female relatives, etc.)

So? Dragon Ball is a little boys' cartoon. No need to think of "girly" as inferior or insulting...

Exactly. If it ran in Shonen Jump, it's a Shonen, and meant for little kids. Though, standards have changed even in Japan (JJBA continues as Steel Ball Run in a Seinen mangazine for instance), and anime mostly have more strict standards than manga, hence censoring (like with Fist of the North Star).

With stuff like Fist of the North Star, I'm starting to get the feeling Shonen doesn't distinguish between younger boys and teenagers.

[Mewzard]

Everyone I know says even the Japanese version of Magical Doremi was a little girls' cartoon.

Well...look at it. I could've told you that by just watching that short clip

No worries, though. I'm sure I'm not the only one here who was into Sailor Moon back in the day.

As did I. When I mainly think of little girl cartoons, I don't think of Sailor Moon, but moreso My Little Pony and Strawberry Shortcake. That's how Doremi struck me. (To the foreigners and young guys who missed most of the 80s, My Little Pony and Strawberry Shortcake were girls' toy-based cartoons that guys would've gotten a lot of crap for watching. To this day you still won't find many guys who range from mid-20s to mid-30s who will freely admit they watched either of their own accord and not due to female relatives, etc.)

So? Dragon Ball is a little boys' cartoon. No need to think of "girly" as inferior or insulting...

Exactly. If it ran in Shonen Jump, it's a Shonen, and meant for little kids. Though, standards have changed even in Japan (JJBA continues as Steel Ball Run in a Seinen mangazine for instance), and anime mostly have more strict standards than manga, hence censoring (like with Fist of the North Star).

With stuff like Fist of the North Star, I'm starting to get the feeling Shonen doesn't distinguish between younger boys and teenagers.

With FOTNS, it would be Seinen these days...well, at least by regular jump standards. But WSJ is for young boys generally, anyone else it gets is a perk. Sexual humor and some level of violence has become the norm in these types of series, though it's more tame. DB got away with female nipples on post-pubescent girls, something that most modern jump manga can't do (or won't).

Standards change, even for Japan.

But, don't doubt, lots of varied age people read DB.

[Adamant]

DB got away with female nipples on post-pubescent girls, something that most modern jump manga can't do (or won't).

Weekly Shonen Jump doesn't allow nipples anymore, I believe, though it's monthly counterpart Jump SQ (previously Monthly Shonen Jump) has no such ban.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

....Wait, what!? You're kidding me.

Nope, it's true.



On the subject of which edits were worse, I'm going to go with 4kids'. I know this may seem unfair, but I'm basing this solely on Blue Popo. Not only was the edit bleedingly obvious and intrusive, but it was badly done aswell. Not to mention he looks freaking radioactive.

[Suupaa Gohan 2]

On the subject of which edits were worse, I'm going to go with 4kids'. I know this may seem unfair, but I'm basing this solely on Blue Popo. Not only was the edit bleedingly obvious and intrusive, but it was badly done aswell. Not to mention he looks freaking radioactive.

A) 4Kids is not making the calls on these edits, CW is. Jesus, this has been said, pardon the old meme, but over 9,000 times. No one likes 4Kids, and they have a terrible - and deserved - reputation for shit like this. But that doesn't mean people should be so ignorant as to see something airing on their block and assume they're responsible when we've said numerous times that they're not involved. FUNi is making edits based on the demands of the network airing their series, which has nothing, or at least very very little, to do with 4Kids.

B) I'd say Blue Popo represents the epitome of stupid editing not because of the reasons you stated or the ones most people are thinking, but because even Saban left him untouched. Popo has never been edited in the Anime; in the Manga, they blacked out his lips, but if you didn't know better it wouldn't really effect your perception of the character. African Americans have brown skin. Mr. Popo has black skin. We may toss the words 'black' and 'white' around when referring to race every day, but we're not talking about Popo-Black and Chaozu-White (Dragonball crayons, coming soon). It's just incredibly stupid to alter the color of a character's skin who has never been edited in any other version of the broadcast, even the original Saban version. At the very least, if CW felt he needed to be made into less of a racist caricature, go the VIZ route - de-emphasize/remove his lips. Don't freaking turn him blue.

C) Anyone got a clip of the whole 'Spirit Blaster' thing?

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

A) 4Kids is not making the calls on these edits, CW is. Jesus, this has been said, pardon the old meme, but over 9,000 times.

I know. I frequent the Kai forums, I've heard the explanation many a time. I just didn't know what else to call them. "Edits done by FUNimation for 4kids' channel, to conform to television standards"?

[VegettoEX]

I just didn't know what else to call them. "Edits done by FUNimation for 4kids' channel, to conform to television standards"?

"CW's Edits" seems to be fairly accurate and concise.

[Zep]

C) Anyone got a clip of the whole 'Spirit Blaster' thing?

Here we go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_jcHyVd ... re=related

[Ishtar318]

On the subject of which edits were worse, I'm going to go with 4kids'. I know this may seem unfair, but I'm basing this solely on Blue Popo. Not only was the edit bleedingly obvious and intrusive, but it was badly done aswell. Not to mention he looks freaking radioactive.

A) 4Kids is not making the calls on these edits, CW is. Jesus, this has been said, pardon the old meme, but over 9,000 times. No one likes 4Kids, and they have a terrible - and deserved - reputation for shit like this. But that doesn't mean people should be so ignorant as to see something airing on their block and assume they're responsible when we've said numerous times that they're not involved. FUNi is making edits based on the demands of the network airing their series, which has nothing, or at least very very little, to do with 4Kids.

B) I'd say Blue Popo represents the epitome of stupid editing not because of the reasons you stated or the ones most people are thinking, but because even Saban left him untouched. Popo has never been edited in the Anime; in the Manga, they blacked out his lips, but if you didn't know better it wouldn't really effect your perception of the character. African Americans have brown skin. Mr. Popo has black skin. We may toss the words 'black' and 'white' around when referring to race every day, but we're not talking about Popo-Black and Chaozu-White (Dragonball crayons, coming soon). It's just incredibly stupid to alter the color of a character's skin who has never been edited in any other version of the broadcast, even the original Saban version. At the very least, if CW felt he needed to be made into less of a racist caricature, go the VIZ route - de-emphasize/remove his lips. Don't freaking turn him blue.

C) Anyone got a clip of the whole 'Spirit Blaster' thing?

Actually 4kids is making these additional edits inhouse and they DO have a say in how to edit these scenes. The style of editing used for the Toonzai edits do NOT even look like they were done by Ocean Productions, like on Nicktoons. The biggest evidence is the fact that they're using "soundalikes" in NYC, mostly Sean Schemmel, to record edited dialogue. Also, I wouldn't say every change done to the Toonzai airing was specified by TheCW, but also going by 4kids' own guidelines about what is and what is not allowed. Blue Popo could have very well have been 4kids' idea, because 4kids found Popo offensive and they did not want to risk it. When I spoke to Mark Kirk at NYCC, he said he was "surprised that Nicktoons even got away with Mr.Popo, because it is pretty offensive." For all we know, TheCW may not have even said anything about Popo's character design, but 4kids just wanted to play it safe. After all, the original Saban broadcast on Saturday mornings got away with Popo, and even KidsWB got away with it when they aired a few episodes of Dragon Ball Z, but then again that was a while ago. Another thing, either way FUNimation is approving all the edits too.

[Innagadadavida]

I think it would have been less jarring and less obscene to just edit out his lips like VIZ does. That's really the only thing about the design that resembles the stereotype.

Mark Kirk was probably just talking out his ass. With that and the wall post on Toonzaki, 4kids is the only, read only, company to call Popo's design racist.

[bkev]

Spirit Blaster... ugh. That still gets me.

[SuperSaiyan3Goku]

Well, Nicktoons cut out Freeza's beams hitting Piccolo.

But you can CLEARLY tell that Pic is getting hit in the freeze-frame at the end of the episode.

[Goku100xKamehameha]

They would probably changed "Galick Gun" into something like "Galick Cannon" or maybe "Galick Blaster".

[Gaffer Tape]

TheCW: Galick Gun? More like Galick Fuuuuuuun!!!!

[Big Momma]

TheCW: Galick Gun? More like Galick Fuuuuuuun!!!!

*Insert Chiaotzu sparkles*

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

C) Anyone got a clip of the whole 'Spirit Blaster' thing?

Here we go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_jcHyVd ... re=related

Ah, so it's "Spirit Blast". Still a pretty stupid edit.

[Suupaa Gohan 2]

Ah, so it's "Spirit Blast". Still a pretty stupid edit.

I don't know. Since I've only heard Kaioh say it, I'd say it's more like Spirit Brhashhttt. The Hell kind of name for an attack is that?

[Goku100xKamehameha]

Ah, so it's "Spirit Blast". Still a pretty stupid edit.

I don't know. Since I've only heard Kaioh say it, I'd say it's more like Spirit Brhashhttt. The Hell kind of name for an attack is that?

To me, it sounded like "Spirit Breast" when Kaio said it....