Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 16; Still Unreleased

[Dark Vegeta-Sama]

Because it's entirely unnecessary. It would cost a lot less to license an already existing dub than it would be to license the series, pay translators, a director, many actors, and put time and money to put out a good release. Unless Funi's just going to rip off Canada, but I doubt they'd charge too much more than what Nicktoons and CW gladly paid and are getting high ratings for.

Yes, as stated above, you may feel that it's unnecessary. I am not questioning that opinion, just explaining why it makes sense that another company would want to make their own dub. It isn't all that complicated even if you disagree with it.

Kai got a dub cast that fit their roles (minus one or two iffy roles, but that's going to happen in any series).

And that's great for them. The company producing the alternate dub doesn't care about that. They want money just as much as FUNi does, and producing their own dub will ensure that for them.

Any network that airs Kai is going to get quite a profit from high ratings, there's the money right there. Even if there is a dub for Canada, I believe Funi owns the North American Broadcast rights, so they'd have to sell Funi Kai, wouldn't they? This would just confuse a bunch of kids who just want to watch the series they just discovered and like.

It wasn't any more confusing for us when we had a Canadian and American dub of DBZ. I don't think that kids today are any less intelligent than they were 10 years ago.

The fact that a good English dub exists should be enough. There doesn't need to be two dubs (it's not like Chinese, with Mandarin, Cantonese, etc).

Yeah, there are a lot of things in this world that should be enough. But try telling a business that they shouldn't make their own product because another similar one already exists. Doesn't work that way.

Kai will undoubtedly be the same in terms of being the less expensive alternative for the networks to purchase

But how do you know this for sure? You can't say conlcusively that it will be the same as it was ten years ago. Also, when I said FUNimation has "changed", I didn't mean their dubbing practices. I meant the company from a business perspective.

Because the alternate dub has to be competitive with the FUNimation dub for Canadian broadcast, otherwise there would be no point, financially, in its production. For Europe this point is probably irrelevant as FUNimation just doesn't seem to have a foothold there.

No, although it seems that you have a problem with the fact that both America and Canada have their own dubs, but you do not.

How the hell did you come to that conclusion? All of a sudden I'm jealous? FYI, I do have an English Kai dub that I really like. Even if a dub of Kai was produced in Australia, it would probably be shithouse. I'm not going to support something, solely based on the fact that it was made in my home country.

Nor am I. You don't seem to have noticed, but nowhere have I argued that this alternate dub is necessary, just that it makes sense, from a business perspective, why it is being produced. Nothing more, nothing less.

Maybe you'd feel differently if Australia had its own dub as well.

I'm begining to think that this is more about patriotism, than a cartoon show. A good dub is a good dub. No matter where it comes from.

It's not about patriotism, it's about understanding the basics of why an alternate dub would be made, regardless of where it comes from. Business 101. This argument should've never even taken place. Yes, we get it, you feel that an alternate dub is unnecessary. Nobody is forcing you to watch it, or even acknowledge its existence for that matter. If FUNimation's product makes you happy, all the more power to you.

[RazorX]

I know. I'm saying that we don't produce our own dubs, we simply use pre-existing dubs from the U.S and sometimes Canada. We have the money and means to do them, we just don't bother since other countries are already doing them.

No reason why Australia can't (unless they cant get the licensing rights) Phillipines and Malaysia produced their own English dubs.

True. But producing something yourself just to bring in a few more potential consumers, is not worth it. Canada should just air FUNimation's dub, and risk pissing off some Ocean dub fans on the internet.

Toei should completely scrap Funi's dub and replace it with Ocean's dub everywhere, they may risk pissing off some Funi fans but it doesn't matter.

See how that comes out as?

Because that was a long time ago, and under different circumstances. I guarantee that if Canada airs the FUNimation dub, ten-year-olds won't boycott it, à la Season 3.

They won't appreciate as much as they would the Ocean dub.

Agreed. But the audience for the show on TV is almost completely made up of new fans, who didn't see the show on Toonami.

Disagree. Even on these forums as well as others, you can tell that people who watched DBZ on Toonami are watching Kai on Nicktoons.

By saving money, you can make more profit. Simple, no?

Funi adds in the costs of producing their dub plus mark up when selling it. Chances are, they wont save money by airing Funi's dub.

There's also more money to be made, by just using FUNimation's dub.

No there isn't. Funi's dub is bound to put off some Ocean fans, thereby putting off consumers.

Really? The same as ten years ago? FUNimation has changed since then.

Agree, but Funi are still out of Ocean's league.

Canadian childrens' ears won't burst if they hear characters on a cartoon show speaking with a different accent. Us Australians didn't seen to mind.

You Australians got screwed by Funi's Z dub, as a result missing out on Ocean's much better dub.

How the hell did you come to that conclusion? All of a sudden I'm jealous? FYI, I do have an English Kai dub that I really like. Even if a dub of Kai was produced in Australia, it would probably be shithouse. I'm not going to support something, solely based on the fact that it was made in my home country.

You come across as jealous by making pointless arguments. What is the point of protesting the Ocean dub? None at all, no one's forcing you to watch it.

The fact of the matter is, the Ocean dub will make a lot of people happy, you (well not just you) are coming across as being against their happiness, perhaps because your country might not get what will undoubtedly be the superior Canadian dub?

I'm begining to think that this is more about patriotism, than a cartoon show. A good dub is a good dub. No matter where it comes from.

What the hell? I'm not from Canada, I am not Canadian. Yet I throw my full support behind the Canadian Ocean dub of DBZ. The Canadian DBZ dub pisses all over the American one and shits on it for good measure. I'm saying that because that is how I feel, doesn't matter if I'm not from Canada. I appreciate a good dub.

I'm confident I'll throw my full support behind Canada's Ocean DB Kai dub as well. Because I am expecting it to be really good.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

No reason why Australia can't (unless they cant get the licensing rights) Phillipines and Malaysia produced their own English dubs.

I think we actually can't get the rights. But even if we could, we still probably wouldn't produce our own dub. We'd just use the American (or possibly Canadian) one, since it's cheaper and easier.

Toei should completely scrap Funi's dub and replace it with Ocean's dub everywhere, they may risk pissing off some Funi fans but it doesn't matter.

One, Toei's already sold the rights to the whole series to FUNimation. Two, there are way more FUNimation dub fans than there are Ocean dub fans.

They won't appreciate as much as they would the Ocean dub.

Ten-year-old kids? Doubt it. They'd be indifferent.

Disagree. Even on these forums as well as others, you can tell that people who watched DBZ on Toonami are watching Kai on Nicktoons.

I said "almost". I don't deny that some Toonami fans are watching Kai on Nicktoons/CW4kids.

Funi adds in the costs of producing their dub plus mark up when selling it. Chances are, they wont save money by airing Funi's dub.

As I've said before, odd's are that Ocean's dub will be cheaper. However, we cannot know for sure.

Agree, but Funi are still out of Ocean's league..

Are we talking about their dubs, or the companies in general. If we're talking about the companies in general, then FUNimation is more successful. If we're talking about their dubs, then I'm torn.

You Australians got screwed by Funi's Z dub, as a result missing out on Ocean's much better dub.

We didn't get screwed out of anything. The Westwood dub is horrible.

The fact of the matter is, the Ocean dub will make a lot of people happy, you (well not just you) are coming across as being against their happiness, perhaps because your country might not get what will undoubtedly be the superior Canadian dub?

Nope. I don't give a shit about what dub of Kai will air on Australian TV. I only care about the DVDs, where I can watch the Japanese version uncut. Also, how do you know for sure that Ocean's dub will be better than FUNimation's? You haven't actually seen it. What if most of your beloved Ocean cast gets replaced? Or, what if the dub doesn't get made at all?

[VegettoEX]

If you're just going to go back and forth line-by-line, please take it to PMs. The forums are for legitimate discussion, not for pissing matches.

[RazorX]

One, Toei's already sold the rights to the whole series to FUNimation. Two, there are way more FUNimation dub fans than there are Ocean dub fans.

Read what I wrote in the small print.

Ocean's dub has much more fans than Funi's dub. Funi's dub gets battered to pieces. Unless there is concrete proof, I'm sticking to my theory that Ocean's dub is more popular.

We didn't get screwed out of anything. The Westwood dub is horrible.

The Westwood dub is amazing, the Funimation dub is horrible. Since we don't agree on this, we'll have to agree to disagree.

I don't see the point to this argument anway. UK, Canada and Europe will most likely be getting Ocean's Kai dub. I don't see why you're making an issue out of this because:

1: You don't even live in those countries.
2: No one's forcing you to watch a certain dub.

Also, how do you know for sure that Ocean's dub will be better than FUNimation's? You haven't actually seen it.

I thought you might ask that.

I'm going basing it somewhat on the Canadian DBGT & DB dubs. Despite using a different cast, they're still much better than Funimation, and they were done in Calgary, where dubs usually aren't as good as Vancouver. So even if some of the cast is replaced, chances are it'd be better than Funi. However Ocean should keep most of their cast the same as their DBZ dub.

Anyway hopefully more info will be revealed on Ocean's Kai dub soon. I want confirmation of Brian Drummond and Scott McNeil reprising their roles.

[Mewzard]

Why are we even arguing about an Ocean Dub? Wasn't the one confirmation we got of a possible dub saying that it was from a new company? From the Buu Saga Ocean Goku (Miroku's VA, name escapes me)?

And in any case, I don't see a single sign that an Ocean Dub would be a better dub. Firstly, we don't know if we'd get a faithful dub or more edited down stuff. And even if it got the right script, direction, etc, that's not proof it would be better. Could be better, could be roughly the same, could be worse, we can't know for sure, there are too many factors.

So many possible faults that could derail it. Look what's happening to Mexico's Kai dub, it could happen to Canada with some bad luck. It's all a wait and see process (if it even ends up being finalized, and doesn't fall through).

[jjgp1112]

One, Toei's already sold the rights to the whole series to FUNimation. Two, there are way more FUNimation dub fans than there are Ocean dub fans.

Read what I wrote in the small print.

Ocean's dub has much more fans than Funi's dub. Funi's dub gets battered to pieces. Unless there is concrete proof, I'm sticking to my theory that Ocean's dub is more popular.

There are more people in the US and Australia combined than Canada and UK combined. From what I've seen, Ocean dub fans are ten times more vocal, but Funimation fans are far more prevalent. Not to mention the fact that the Westwood dub doesn't even have a DVD release.

[penguintruth]

It always seemed to me like there's way, way more Funimation dub fans than Ocean fans. Way more. Like, it's not even close. Just go to Behindthevoiceactors.com, for instance.

A lot of that is because Funimation dubbed it far longer and during a time when DBZ hit the peak of its popularity in North America. It's not like the dub suddenly got a lot better when Funimation started doing it, people are just used to it.

And as much as I love a good number of the Ocean cast, and prefer many of them to their Funi voices, that later Westwood dub was really not good. It's bizarrely bad, given how good the dubs of the first three movies had been. I can't even figure out why. Karl Willems was directing, wasn't he? It's weird how bad it was.

It's not even as though the casting was bad or there were untalented VAs. In fact, a lot of really talented VAs were in the Westwood dub, but they just really underperformed. I liken it to the Gundam 00 dub. On paper, it should have been good, but in practice, it wasn't. Hell, it should have been infinitely better than Funimation's, but wasn't. Something just didn't click.

[Kaboom]

Up until now, whenever these Ocean vs FUNi "debates" would crop up and I found myself in the middle, I'd just be able to say, "they both suck, the original Japanese is best." It was a moot point.

But now, FUNimation has actually produced a respectable dub for Z Kai, so it's not that simple anymore. It remains yet to be seen if or how Ocean studios' version will measure up, or if it'll even be made.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

One, Toei's already sold the rights to the whole series to FUNimation. Two, there are way more FUNimation dub fans than there are Ocean dub fans.

Read what I wrote in the small print.

Ocean's dub has much more fans than Funi's dub. Funi's dub gets battered to pieces. Unless there is concrete proof, I'm sticking to my theory that Ocean's dub is more popular.

There are more people in the US and Australia combined than Canada and UK combined. From what I've seen, Ocean dub fans are ten times more vocal, but Funimation fans are far more prevalent.

Also, giving you concrete proof is going to be really difficult. I'd have to tally every Ocean dub fan and every FUNimation dub fan. I'm just saying that it's pretty obvious to any Dragon Ball on the internet fan that the FUNimation dub is more popular (due to what jjgp said, and the fact that the FUNimation dub is the one that is being released on DVD)

[TheBlackPaladin]

I'm just saying that it's pretty obvious to any Dragon Ball on the internet fan that the FUNimation dub is more popular (due to what jjgp said, and the fact that the FUNimation dub is the one that is being released on DVD)

Some of the more vocal Ocean fans have always struck me as being flat-out bitter towards the FUNimation dub, and I think this is partially why. Since the FUNimation dub is the one being released on DVD, and the one with more prominent exposure (not to mention the fact that they are the only English dub cast to dub the movies and the videogames as well as the TV series)...the FUNimation dub is typically regarded as the "official" dub. Ocean fans, perhaps understandably, seem to hate that. They don't like the idea that the dub they grew up with and are so passionate about is regarded as the "alternate" English dub.

To me, that's just a matter of semantics. Both of them are official dubs. However, both of them have so far proven inferior to what FUNimation is doing in their dub of Kai. It'll be interesting to see if Ocean can top them. If the music is being changed, though, the answer in my mind will be an automatic "no." Changing the music is the worst kind of edit one can make to an anime, in my opinion.

[Kaboom]

If the music is being changed, though, the answer in my mind will be an automatic "no." Changing the music is the worst kind of edit one can make to an anime, in my opinion.

Agreed. They could have a cast just as good as FUNimation's put together, they could use the same accurate scripts, and so forth... but if they replace the music, then that's a big ol' stamp of "FAIL" on the whole thing. That's a matter of policy, not opinion. It's just a big no-no in dubbing nowadays.

[Taku128]

I don't understand why change automatically equals bad. A lot of people on these forums don't even like Kai's score.

[Gaffer Tape]

Because a lot of people (myself included) believe that accuracy to the source trumps any kind of personal preference.

[penguintruth]

It'll be a real shame if their dub is great but then ruin it with a replacement score.

[Kaboom]

I don't understand why change automatically equals bad. A lot of people on these forums don't even like Kai's score.

It's a matter of principle. Doing things like changing up a script or swapping music to be "better" is not the dubber's job, and is a big taboo nowadays. Their job is to present the same material, just in a different language. That's all.

The show is what and how it is, and people can take it or leave it that way. If the series is good or bad, then let it succeed or fail on its own merits, instead of messing things up in an attempt to "improve" it. If they're not capable of simply doing that much and resisting the urge to screw around with it, then they shouldn't be dubbing things, period.

This is one matter where there's no "opinion" to factor in about it. Replacing music means auto-fail.

[TheBlackPaladin]

I don't understand why change automatically equals bad. A lot of people on these forums don't even like Kai's score.

Yamamoto's score isn't quite as good as Kikuchi's, but it certainly has its moments. The general feeling that I have towards it--and that many others seem to have towards it--is not so much that it's bad as it is repetitive to the point where you get tired of certain themes very quickly, and they begin to blur together and sound generic as a result. I'd like Yamamoto's score a lot more if he varied it up a little bit.

Here's how I rank the music, personally:

Kikuchi>Yamamoto>Faulconer>Levi>Johnson>Menza>Whoever did the music for the Westwood Media dub.

My personal feelings on the music aside, like the others said, it's a matter of principle. The music sets the atmosphere for the show/movie. To change it is to change the atmosphere itself. That, for me at least, is altering the original artist's intention too much.

Plus, to be honest, it's just frustrating in this day and age because changing the music is a procedure from a much older time. Changing the music used to be relatively common in dubbed anime because U.S. anime adaptation companies used to think that a show needed to be heavily changed and adapted in order to be marketable. That belief has all but died out, so it's frustrating to see anybody cling on to it. I for one am really hoping that 4Kids is paying attention to Kai's success...it's proof that you don't need to change the music in order for something to be marketable.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

Some of the more vocal Ocean fans have always struck me as being flat-out bitter towards the FUNimation dub, and I think this is partially why. Since the FUNimation dub is the one being released on DVD, and the one with more prominent exposure (not to mention the fact that they are the only English dub cast to dub the movies and the videogames as well as the TV series)...the FUNimation dub is typically regarded as the "official" dub. Ocean fans, perhaps understandably, seem to hate that. They don't like the idea that the dub they grew up with and are so passionate about is regarded as the "alternate" English dub.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head. Ocean dub fans on YouTube are the worst offenders of this. Case in point. There exists no "AntiOcean" channel or anything on the oppoiste end of the spectrum.

[jjgp1112]

I don't understand why change automatically equals bad. A lot of people on these forums don't even like Kai's score.

Yeah, I don't understand this either. If it's good, it's good.

[Adamant]

It's a matter of principle. Doing things like changing up a script or swapping music to be "better" is not the dubber's job, and is a big taboo nowadays. Their job is to present the same material, just in a different language. That's all.

Then again, Funi seems more concerned with making sure enough voices are carried over from their old shit dub than "presenting the same material in a different language", so it's not like they're doing an overly good job either.

How is "changing the music because we think people will like it better this way" any worse a crime than "casting Sean Schemmel as Kaiou and telling him to act like a retard because we think people will like it better this way"?
Funi aren't doing a good job presenting the same material in a different language when they insist on using the same miscasted actors from before just because that's what they did before.