Could USSJ have evenly increased Speed, Ki and Strength?

[ItsAllGood]

Hi all, an old-schooler back for another hypothesis.

As the title suggests, could USSJ have evenly increased Speed, Ki and Strength?
Let us consider, for the purposes of this argument, that SSJ provides an even spread of Ki, Strength and Speed.

As Goku, Vegeta and Trunks reached USSJ and USSJ2, why did it seem that their bodies were only interested in bulking up for pure strength rather than an even spread across the three areas? All of their previous training produced substantial increases in all three areas, so why does USSJ only result in more Strength rather than an even distribution?

Imagine if the bulk had been reduced somewhat, and a larger share of the gains were channeled into Speed and Ki. That is what I would consider a USSJ - a level mid way between SSJ1 and 2 that was not biased to one area of growth. SSJ1 and 2 had an even distribution, so why not the mid-levels too? Were Goku, Vegeta and Trunks too focused on increasing their raw strength to defeat Cell, forcing their bodies to allocate a larger share of the gains towards bulking up? This could have really given Cell a run for his money had Vegeta and Trunks been able to "fine-tune" USSJ in this way.

I am aware that SSJ2 was the correct way off attaining the needed balance, as spectacularly demonstrated by Gohan, but it just seems odd that the "mid" levels between SSJ and SSJ2 only focused on pure Strength while negating Speed and Ki? Shouldn't the mid levels have produced even gains across all 3 factors?

Thanks in advance!

ItsAllGood

[hleV]

USSJ increases everything at the cost of a more intesive energy drain. Basically you'll get tired sooner in USSJ form. It can be useful, like it was for Vegeta against 2nd form Cell and for a strong Final Flash.
USSJ2 sucks.

[Dayspring]

Hi all, an old-schooler back for another hypothesis.

As the title suggests, could USSJ have evenly increased Speed, Ki and Strength?
Let us consider, for the purposes of this argument, that SSJ provides an even spread of Ki, Strength and Speed.

As Goku, Vegeta and Trunks reached USSJ and USSJ2, why did it seem that their bodies were only interested in bulking up for pure strength rather than an even spread across the three areas? All of their previous training produced substantial increases in all three areas, so why does USSJ only result in more Strength rather than an even distribution?

Imagine if the bulk had been reduced somewhat, and a larger share of the gains were channeled into Speed and Ki. That is what I would consider a USSJ - a level mid way between SSJ1 and 2 that was not biased to one area of growth. SSJ1 and 2 had an even distribution, so why not the mid-levels too? Was Goku, Vegeta and Trunks too focused on increasing their raw strength to defeat Cell, forcing their bodies to allocate a larger share of the gains towards bulking up? This could have really given Cell a run for his money had Vegeta and Trunks been able to "fine-tune" USSJ in this way.

I am aware that SSJ2 was the correct way off attaining the needed balance, as spectacularly demonstrated by Gohan, but it just seems odd that the "mid" levels between SSJ and SSJ2 only focused on pure Strength while negating Speed and Ki? Shouldn't the mid levels have produced even gains across all 3 factors?

Thanks in advance!

ItsAllGood

Not evenly, but SSJ-G2 did seem to increase speed and strength a lot, whereas Ki seemed to get a bit of a boost of some kind, as well. SSJ-G3 seems to have been every drop of energy transfered solely into strength.

It's not that SSJ-G2 and G3 were failed versions of transforming, it's that they were failed versions of utilizing one's energy stores. That's why learning to master SSJ was more efficient in the long run.

[Super Vegito]

"USSJ" is just the user powering up (bulking up their muscles), which anyone (Cell, Frieza, shit even Roshi) can do, all at the cost of severe ki drain and/or lost of speed. Where as SSJ2 is an actual transformation. This is why "USSJ" isn't as efficient as SSJ2. There's a difference between an actual transformation, and just powering up.

So the answer is no.

[Kaboom]

The bulky muscles (or perhaps technically the Ki used towards bulking the muscles and physical strength rather than other aspects) were specifically noted to be what caused the speed drop in the first place. So since SSj Grade 2 definitely has bulkier muscles than normal, then yes, there's going to be SOME drop in speed one way or another. It still technically increases from what it was at regular Super Saiyan, but not as much as it should compared to other aspects. So altogether, it would be considered a "loss" in speed.

However, at such a relatively low point the speed sacrifice may be so small and negligible that it wouldn't even be noticed unless you were matched up against someone exactly as strong as you. So someone at 500 million with SSj Grade 2 might only be, say, 90% as quick as someone at 500 million with regular Super Saiyan. But only when you pump things up to an extreme with Grade 3 will the speed loss actually mean something and become debilitating. So now you're at an advantage with, suppose, 650 million in raw power, but you're suddenly only about 75% as fast as your 500 million opponent.

[Lum-Chan~]

Imagine if the bulk had been reduced somewhat, and a larger share of the gains were channeled into Speed and Ki. That is what I would consider a USSJ - a level mid way between SSJ1 and 2 that was not biased to one area of growth. SSJ1 and 2 had an even distribution, so why not the mid-levels too?

I thought that's what Full Power SSJ did...I'm not sure though as my knowledge on this part of the series is very vague.

[Bussani]

According to the Daizenshuu, Second Grade does indeed raise power and speed. It's Third Grade that greatly loses speed due to the ridiculous muscle mass. As Kaboom and Super Vegito said, these "forms" aren't really transformations at all--they're simply the act of controlling your body and bulking it up. The reason speed suffers is simply because of the shape your body ends up in if you push it too far (aka Third Grade), so there isn't really a way around that if you're gaining power using this method. Honestly, these are just impractical shortcuts to power.

~Second Grade
First Appearance: chapter 377
People: Son Goku, Trunks, Vegeta
Special features: A power-up where every nerve is concentrated, sending ki throughout the body and inflating the muscles. This is capable of raising both power and speed much higher than a Super Saiya-jin.

~Third Grade
First Appearance: chapter 386
People: Son Goku, Trunks
Special features: This form is capable of drawing out immense power, inflating muscles to the limit. However, this kills speed and movement becomes sluggish; on top of that, the burden on the body is also great.

[hleV]

Why would Saiyan's hair grow by powering up rather than transforming? Or are you gonna claim that it doesn't really grow?

[Bussani]

Why would Saiyan's hair grow by powering up rather than transforming? Or are you gonna claim that it doesn't really grow?

The same reason their muscles grow, I guess.

[Dayspring]

The bulky muscles (or perhaps technically the Ki used towards bulking the muscles and physical strength rather than other aspects) were specifically noted to be what caused the speed drop in the first place. So since SSj Grade 2 definitely has bulkier muscles than normal, then yes, there's going to be SOME drop in speed one way or another. It still technically increases from what it was at regular Super Saiyan, but not as much as it should compared to other aspects. So altogether, it would be considered a "loss" in speed.

However, at such a relatively low point the speed sacrifice may be so small and negligible that it wouldn't even be noticed unless you were matched up against someone exactly as strong as you. So someone at 500 million with SSj Grade 2 might only be, say, 90% as quick as someone at 500 million with regular Super Saiyan. But only when you pump things up to an extreme with Grade 3 will the speed loss actually mean something and become debilitating. So now you're at an advantage with, suppose, 650 million in raw power, but you're suddenly only about 75% as fast as your 500 million opponent.

With SSJ-G2, there was still an increase in speed (at least, according to the daizenshuu). I see bulking up as causing an increase in ki flow, as well as reducing speed. Ki flow is responsible for increases in both strength and speed, so with SSJ-G2, it's just a matter of ki's influence on speed being greater than bulking's influence on it, whereas SSJ-G3 would be the opposite.

[Kaboom]

With SSJ-G2, there was still an increase in speed (at least, according to the daizenshuu). I see bulking up as causing an increase in ki flow, as well as reducing speed. Ki flow is responsible for increases in both strength and speed, so with SSJ-G2, it's just a matter of ki's influence on speed being greater than bulking's influence on it, whereas SSJ-G3 would be the opposite.

Agreed, that's a good way of wording it. The boost in speed for Grade 2 is enough to "cancel out" the loss thanks to the muscles. Then only with the extremes of Grade 3 would the loss outweigh the gain, if there's still any gain at all.