Story Mode. Yay? Or Nay?

[SHINOBI-03]

So, we all know that there's no story mode in Raging Blast 2.

When my brother was playing, he asked about it, and I said it's not included in the game. He felt kinda annoyed by the lack of it, since he (and I) were used to have story modes in every DBZ game we've played so far.

For me, as much as I'd love to have, I became one of those "I know the series damn well. I don't need it". But I got used to it and it felt a bit awkward not playing it to unlock things like I used to in Budokai 2, 3, Sparking, NEO and METEOR. Plus, by playing it, I can tell when it's going to end. ((Except for What-Ifs)).

What are your thoughts? Do you think it's for the good? Or do think it's a must to have?

[Ishtar318]

People complained that the story modes in previous games were repetitive and boring, but personally I feel Galaxy Mode is even more repetitive and boring. Having cutscenes relating to the DBZ storyline made the game feel a lot more interactive and interesting. Galaxy Mode is just "beat this character with this challenge included", which gets old fast. Not to mention some of the missions were just ridiculously annoying. Who's bright idea was it to make missions where you had to defeat your opponent before Raging Soul ran out? Sure it's not as bad with some missions, but a few in particular were just outright annoying, especially Nappa's where you have to fight Goku (who regenerates health AND is at full power at the same time). Those extra challenges feel more like half-assed attempts at making the game more difficult.

My ideal storymode would be to take Budokai 3/Tenkaichi 2's example, but expand on it even further. First thing I would do would be instead of making it a flat and minor detailed map, I would make it more of a 3 dimensional environment that you can walk around on. I know it's a fighting game, but it wouldn't hurt to add some exploration of the Dragon Ball world too.

[Rocketman]

There is something kind of comfortable about going through the story again, and back in the Budokai days it provided at least one fight where you could use special characters like Vegetto without the game mechanics getting in the way.

Now, though, eh. The most I'd allow for is something like Tenkaichi 3's, where only the major fights were covered.


Adding 'exploration' would only hurt it. The biggest problem with story mode for DBZ is how long they take to get through when you already know the end. Forcing you to blunder about in shoddy 3D will just feel like padding.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

I was one of those guys who complained about the redundacy of story modes in Dragon Ball fighters. Spike realized people like me were tired of them, and created something a bit different. While Galaxy Mode is not great, it is still much better than that shit board game thing in Budokai 2.

[Rory]

While Galaxy Mode is not great, it is still much better than that shit board game thing in Budokai 2.

Hey, I liked that mode!
But to be honest, I can see where the hate comes from there. It can be quite tedious, but it was just so different that I was totally absorbed by it. Running around and fighting people in certain orders.. or running away from certain characters, really felt exciting as I was moving my lil' characters around the board (A lot of it made no sense though).

Oh yeah, the topic.
I honestly think that we need to take a looong break from story modes. They can come back again some day, but just give us a couple of years to breathe. Then, when they come back, give us something really special (Burst Limit-esque cutscenes).

[theoriginalbilis]

I'd rather see an original story created for the games, not just the Saiyan arc through the end of DBZ re-enacted for the 10th time, I don't care if it's something mediocre along the lines of PteSS, just use some of that development staff to write something new. The What-ifs are a good direction. I don't even care if the story revolved around Broly...

[VegettoEX]

The fact that this conversation is even taking place shows that, to some degree, some amount of fandom is "sick" of a standard "story mode" -- that much is clear. Why is it, though? I really think you have to approach this question from a couple different ways -- there is no single answer that even I, as an individual person, can give you.

THE LONG-TIME FAN
I've been playing DragonBall video games since before the series went on hiatus in late 1997 after Final Bout came out. That's a pretty long time. If you take a look back at the later games of that time, even they were losing their story modes -- Super Butoden 3 didn't have one, for example. Final Bout sure didn't... we were playing the last round of fighting games with arcade-only modes. Even the "extra" modes in those games (like the... what were they, "SP Battles"?... in "Legends"...?) were similar to what we have now-a-days with things like the "Galaxy" mode: either a certain set of funny team-ups or conditions to fight under, rather than... well, Raditz to Buu with cut-scenes. Technical limitations of the old consoles has nothing to do with it, either. Super Butoden 2 had a wonderful branching story mode with lots of text and character cut-outs.

For the typical American fan, even though things were taking a "break" in 1997, we were just getting going with our full-on fandom. That was OK, though -- we had a huge history and catalogue of prior games to dive into, so "new" games weren't a huge necessity. Don't misunderstand... when 2001 came around with a crap-ton of new games, we were certainly ready for them.

That was also about 10 years ago. Some of us have been playing each and every single game since then. How many of them start with Raditz? It's like collecting the DBZ TV series, only in video game form. They ALL start in the same place, which means that first volume you pick up will always be Raditz, and that new game you pick up will always start with Raditz.

How many fighting games since 2001 have come out that start with Raditz and go through at least Cell (if not Buu)? I could count, but it would pain me to do so. That's ignoring all of the other games, too (Legacy of Goku, Sagas, etc.). Even when you pretty up that story in a new way, I'm still playing the same darn thing again in the same order. It doesn't matter if it's displayed to me as a game-engine cut scene, an actual video from the show, a series of fights in the same order as the show... it's the same thing. Over. And over. And over.

It shouldn't be hard to imagine how depressingly monotonous that can get. Which brings me to...

MIXING UP THE STORY MODE
This is why folks like me praise what developers have attempted to do in things like Budokai 2's board game mode. Yes, it started with Raditz and ended with Buu, but there was a twist on it. I was running away from enemies. I was trying to cover as much space as possible in the shortest number of moves. Items were hidden around the map. How about NEW story elements? Attack of the Saiyans had me running around spreading feces on tree stumps. The entire history of Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans, while never particularly interesting, at least attempted to toss a new story into the mix that could ONLY be experienced in THAT GAME... NEVER just by watching something (except for, well, err, the visual guide and the re-made feature... >.>).

(I won't pretend that everything they've tried has been exemplary, or anything. Budokai 2 suffered from having to do it far too many times, for example.)

Those "What If?" stories are mint. We need more of them. The SSJ3s were such a wasted opportunity in the first Raging Blast, since you basically just unlock them AND THAT'S IT -- nothing surrounding them to make them more interesting other than simply "existing". The first Bukuu... / Super Sonic Warriors had some really fun "What If?" stories, and that was a great example of a game that knew it was portable and could really only just keep shoving fights one after another, but still did something interesting with it (more on that in a bit).

VALUE OF A STORY MODE?
I was talking a little bit about this with the wife yesterday. Do I feel like I am getting my "money's worth" in Raging Blast 2 since it doesn't have a "story mode" to play though...? Well, sure. If it's a story mode or a galaxy mode, I'm still ultimately playing through a series of fights -- the presentation around that doesn't change the underlying facts. But does that dolled-up whore of a presentation matter? This game has a 30-minute feature for me to watch, a crap-ton of characters, etc. You almost can't keep going with that conversation without turning it into a conversation about "What makes a fighting game worth its money?" Is it the replay value? How about those characters... are they fun to play as, is it fun to challenge the computer or other human players, is it fun to learn the intricacies of the deep gameplay...? The questions go on and on, and you're not talking about a "story mode" at that point. This is what separates the fighting games from the RPGs and action games -- more than those games where the story is the only thing pushing/pulling you forward (and typically only as a single player), these fighting games rely on each match - which could end up being exactly the same each time - NOT being the same thing each time. It's tough to put in words, I know. Hopefully the point gets across.

(Yes, an action game or an RPG certainly have "gameplay" to them, but you don't progress in anything but numbers going up if you just stay in one place and do the same fight over and over. You may get more efficient at it, but Cell's not going to come fight you if you're busy punching dinosaurs over here -- the story is the ONLY thing driving you onward.)

THE PLATFORM MATTERS
What type of device you are playing on matters a whole lot, too. I've talked about Crisis Core a lot as an example of a game that wants to deliver a huge, console-grade, triple-"A" experience - and certainly does - but knows it's a portable game, and plays up those strengths. Missions are an appropriate length. Side quests can be completed in varying times (go for a really short one, or tackle a 45-minute fight if you really want to). It's broken up into chapters. How about DB games? Have any of them taken advance of the platform they're on? I've recently been talking about Tenkaichi Tag Team and how it's just a series of pointless fights against random henchmen (which are entirely avoidable, but still...). What does that take advantage of? Nothing. Attack of the Saiyans took advantage of multiple save points (almost ridiculously so), knowing that you might have to toss it down at any given time since you're on-the-go. The Jump Stars games, while not DB-specific, took advantage of being portable games by giving you multiple objectives to try and complete within a single fight - the more you completed, the greater the benefit - and yet it didn't feel like a waste of time if you didn't complete all of the objectives, 'cuz it was just a single fight and you had plenty of other things you could go do before returning to try it again.

AT THE END OF THE DAY...
I can't just keep watching myself start with Raditz anymore in these games. I just can't. For those of you who haven't had the novelty wear off just yet: it will. Trust me, it will. You'll either stop playing these DB games entirely, or you'll become as old and bored as me.

I need something fresh. I played Budokai for three years in a row (and occasionally re-visited via Infinite World and Burst Limit). I've been playing Sparking! for four/five years in a row. Nothing about their presentation is enough to change that fact.

We either need an entirely new TYPE of game (fighting or otherwise), or we need a new way to present those series of fights that deludes us into thinking we're doing something other than... well, just fighting in a series of fights. "Galaxy Mode" is just a stop-gap along the way, and they can either follow-through with it, or drop the ball.

I don't have very high hopes.

[SHINOBI-03]

Woh... that was a really in-depth reply! I don't think I can top that !

Now, I think you used to mention the cut-scenes from the games and how you dislike them. You know what kind of cut-scenes I'd like to have in future games?

Actual new 2d footage instead of using in-game character models in a stage. DBZ Sagas did a close approach when they used new animation for the opening. The remake kinda gave me the thought of it being a possible addition in the future.

My second preferred cut-scenes would be using scenes from the actual series like what Disney games does when they take scenes from movies that the games are based on ((Or at least, what I remember from PS1 days)). The problem with that is which one to choose: Dragon Box? Remastered? Or Kai?

------

As for Budokai 2's story mode, I liked it being unique for a DBZ game. I really enjoyed the board game concept and choosing a set of characters to go to a certain point and uncover hidden things. Not to mention fighting an opponent with a certain character allows you to unlock something specific. So, it had a really good replay value.

[VegettoEX]

As absolutely terrible as it is, the Rurouni Kenshin PS1 fighting game had a similar set-up in terms of cut-scenes. They were newly-animated for the game, albeit just re-done versions of exact scenes from the show. The point is, though, that after you did one of your little, standard, one-on-one fights... it played a new scene.

Sure, it's just a minute of footage, but you KNEW that when you won that fight, you were going to get something to watch.

Fool me, developers. Really. I beg of you. Make me fight as Pilaf versus Paikuhan or something stupid that I would be doing in any other game anyway, and then give me a 30-second new animation of them thanking each other for the great fight after it's done.

It has to be something NEW, though -- I've seen the show before, and I don't need you to present it to me in a game. The time when that was OK has long since come and gone.

[Hellspawn28]

I like the story in the DBZ games since they are fun to play though, while they get old I rather play through the whole DBZGT story then have no story mode at all. I think the next game should have a original story and try to make some new original ideas for the next game similar how Pipeworks did with their Godzilla games. While "Godzilla Unleashed" was a terrible game, I won't mind seeing a Dragon Ball game where you pick sides of the story as a villain or hero similar how in Godzilla Unleashed where you can pick Earth Defenders, Global Defense Force, Aliens, and Mutans for example.

[SHINOBI-03]

^
Godzilla Unleashed wasn't that bad of a game ((Unless you're talking about the PS2 or the DS versions)). The glitches are what made it bad. As for the story, I liked it... till they changed the main villain Kaiju.

----

But the alliance idea might work for several What-If stories. Take Vegeta for an example. He was an enemy, then forced himself to work with those enemies, and ended up being one of them.

Or how about Goku agrees to rejoin the Saiyans? The hero turns to an enemy! What else... Yamcha losses himself after being constantly humiliated and turns against everyone and especially Vegeta?

[Hellspawn28]

A story mode in the next game where all the stories are What If's similar how the Super SonicWarrior games where would be a fun idea. I know the next game will end up having over 100 something characters, but not every character needs to have a What If story afterall.

[JulieYBM]

I think they could tweak Tenka'ichi Daibôken's engine and create a Dragon Ball GT game. It'd certainly provide for something a little similar, but also fresh considering how little the games pay attention to GT.

[Hellspawn28]

Dragon Ball GT Transformation sold poorly which why a sequel was never made. GT is known to have a bad rep with fans and non fans, I don't see a stand alone GT game working. I still remember when Budokai 3 was rumor under the title of "Dragon Ball GT Budokai" .

[nathantheguitarist]

What I think the deal with all the hate for Budokai 2's story mode is simply a matter of timing.

We had Budokai 1 come out, and incredibly satisfying fighter with an amazing CG Episode-esque story mode, but it could've used a little more polishing and it only went up to the Cell Saga.

Budokai 2 comes out, and those of without internet at the time were all expecting more of the same. CG Episode-like story mode, that went up to Buu and maybe past that. + movies. Instead, we got... a board-game? I was upset just at the fact that it leaves Budokai 1 hanging. I can see how a few of us CAN like this story mode, it's something very unique. I'm definitely upset because I felt like "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" with Budokai 1.

If Budokai 2's story mode had come say, maybe for Budokai 3, or maybe even Infinite World, it might have been better received. I haven't played IW, or Tenkaichi 2 or 3. Or even remember Tenkaichi 1's story-mode. So... I guess I can't say for sure whether or not it could have fared if it was a part of one of those games. But I do believe that there is a disappoint hanging over Budokai 2 because it changed it's formula.

[fps_anth]

I think Mike summed up my feelings pretty well. I watched Plan to Eradicate the Super Saiyans, and then attempted to play story mode.

Couldn't do it. So god damn stale. I just payed $60 for 30 minutes of animation

[Ultimate_DB_Fan]

It's sad, really. These current titles are nothing more than flash without the substance. Even games like Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm 2 suffer from monotonous, repetitive gameplay and a bland story mode. I mean, the crappy fetch quests that were shown for the latest Naruto title are a travesty.

Developers need to take a hint from games like Super Street Fighter 4 and Mortal Kombat Armageddon. One game has everyone already unlocked, while the other only asks for you to unlock 2 characters. Add on the fact that they both have complex, deep combos at their disposals, you're basically getting your money's worth. The latest canon-based MK game might be a bit dated (Armageddon), but there was still complexity there. That's all gonna change with the MK reboot hitting shelves next year, but that's another discussion.

[VegettoEX]

While not really related to story mode, the "problem" with unlocks is a pretty huge one.

Capcom listened to their fans, and you saw Super Street Fighter IV with its by-the-books unlocking system (play as this character to get this character) transition into Super Street Fighter IV with everyone unlocked. What was the response? Parades up and down the street.

The game stood on its own in terms of raw gameplay (what else would you expect from a SF title, though?), and if you wanted "story", it had its continuation of little cut-scenes to start and end each character, with in-game conversations with mid-bosses.

There's NO REASON a new DBZ game couldn't do the same thing.

So what would you unlock along the way?

I've mentioned briefly how the "Galaxy" mode (and that other one in there... "Battle Zone"...?) do a great job of making you feel like you're accomplishing something no matter WHAT the heck you do. Win a fight? Here's a picture and an item. Clear a stage? Here's an aura change.

So again... what would you unlock?

The answer is extra costumes, but there's a huge conundrum with that these days -- Capcom's proving that we're all willing to pay money for additional costumes. It's been such a huge thing with DB games due to the characters HAVING such rich histories and physical developments, and Namco-Bandai could easily strip them all away for $1 a pop.

So then we've just backed ourselves into a corner. Rats .

[Innagadadavida]

If I were to be 100% honest. I would pay $1 for a DBZ costume pack.

Should I bend over now, or later?

[Bardo117]

Needs to be included, no doubt. Game feels very empty without it. I started out buying the DBZ games to be able to relive the series with my own hands, now I just want a game that can bring me that but with the most precession.