Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[dbgtFO]

Revision of the Revised Dragonball power level list from the end of Freeza saga onwards.

1. SSJ is a 40X increase, when you are used to the form & 50X when pushed to its limits(Vegeta, future Trunks, Gohan and Goku achieves this). USSJ = SSJ*1,6. USSJ2 = SSJ*1,9. SSJ2 = SSJ*2

2. If it's your first transformation into a SSJ the multiplier won't follow a specific set of rules, as it completely depends on the user and his ability to control ki. Which is why I believe, when Goku first turned into a SSJ it only granted him a 35x boost, and neither 40 nor 50.

3. For Cell's absorptions it works by adding to his own MAX power. And the reason why normal attacks doesn't seem to work very good on him is because of his increased durability due to his exosceleton, which only becomes harder for each transformation. Cell in his Perfect form is therefore immune to normal attacks(punching, kicking and generic ki blasts) if the gap between him and the attacks is more than 1,1 times large.
But concentrated blasts like the Final Flash is able to break it.
His Buff form is 1,5 times his full power form.

So we start with the final parts of the Freeza saga:

Goku = 3.500.000
Freeza(4%) = 4.800.000 - although the gap is more than 1,3 wide I think Freeza held back, and only used 50% because of Goku's Kaiokenx2 vs. him with no hands.
- 50% = 60.000.000
Goku(worn) = 2.500.000
- Kaioken*20 with Kamehameha = 50.000.000
- Genkidama = 60.000.000
- Fatigued = 2.000.000
Goku(SSJ)
-Unfelt full power = 122.500.000 - Goku's actual full power, unfelt by Gohan because his(Goku's) power is already that high up, that it's hard to determine how it relates to anything else plus Gohan was exhausted and lacked proper focus shown, when Goku and Piccolo survives the GenkiDama explosion.
Freeza(70%) = 84.000.000
- 100% = 120.000.000 - however Gohan being exhausted can't determine how high it is, only that it's ridicously high up there.
- Tired = 24.000.000
- In half = 12.000.000

The boy from the future!

Chaozu = 13.000 - ... I actually really don't know, but he must be stronger than last time!
Yamchu = 60.000 - i believe Kullilin's potential > Yamcha training with King Kai
Tenshinhan = 90.000 - Tenshinhan trained hard, and it's tradition that he's stronger than Kullilin.
Kullilin= 75.000 - same as his max on Namek, due to not training.
Gohan= 450.000 - AFAIK he didn't train, so maybe i'm giving him too much credit.
Piccolo(weighted)= 2.100.000. - Gohan stated he trained every day, because he is a warrior.
Vegeta = 2.900.000 - same as Piccolo, as stated by Bulma, his increase is lower than Piccolo, because he(Piccolo) is a fusion( yeah i know but that's the only way of explaining his increase 3 years later)
Mecha Freeza(4%) = 5.500.000. - Is stated to be stronger, so he is.
-(theoretical 100% power)= 137.500.000 - too bad he never got to show it.
King Cold = 11.000.000
-(theoretical full power)= 110.000.000
Trunks(supp.) = 5 - technically the last PL measured ever, but also one of the lowest.
-(max) = 3.800.000.
-(SSJ) = 82.000.000 - to make Piccolo implying he is stronger than Trunks make sense, I have to put him at this.
-(unfelt Full power) = 152.000.000 - it isn't felt, because of the reasons already listed, Trunks used this power vs. Freeza and Goku of course!
Goku = 4.000.000 - I don't think Goku trained anything else than Shunkan Ido and SSJ meaning no giant powerup.
-(SSJ) = 89.000.000 -
-Unfelt full power = 160.000.000 - same as Trunks.

The Cell saga

Yamcha = 620.000
Kulilin = 920.000
Tenshinhan = 2.000.000
Gohan = 1.500.000
Piccolo(suppressed with weights) = 10.000.000
Goku(heart virus) :< 5.000.000 - decreases relatively slowly because of his illness.
#19 = 60.000.000
Goku(SSJ) << 120.000.000 - starts out much lower than what it should be because of illness. SSJ makes his power drop even more rapid.
#19(Kamehameha absorbed) = 100.000.000
Goku(fatigued) = 2.000.000
#19(Goku absorbed) = 101.500.000
Vegeta = 5.500.000
- SSJ = 220.000.000
#20/Dr. Gero = 80.000.000
- Ki absorbed from Vegeta = 90.000.000
- Ki absorbed from Piccolo = 99.500.000
Piccolo(w/o weights max) = 139.000.000
Trunks = 4.100.000 - I assume he trained at least a little before going back.
- SSJ = 164.000.000

#16 = 360.000.000
#17 = 280.000.000
#18 = 260.000.000 - 260.000.000/220.000.000(SSJ Vegeta) = 1,181818181818, what a coincidense
Piccolo(fused with Kami with weights supp.) = 10.000.000
Cell(suppressed) = 245
- MAX = 245.000.000
Piccolo(with weights max) = 260.000.000
- Max w/o weights = 278.000.000
Cell(MAX) = 350.000.000
- #17 absorbed = 500.000.000 - he is suppressed.
Tenshinhan(Neo Kikoho) = 250.000.000
Vegeta = 10.000.000
- SSJ = 500.000.000
- USSJ = 800.000.000
Cell(#17 absorbed max) = 630.000.000
Trunks = 9.000.000
- SSJ = 450.000.000
- USSJ = 720.000.000
Perfect Cell(initial) = 890.000.000
-Suppressed = 750.000.000 - #16 thought Vegeta had the edge, and Vegeta thought so too.
Vegeta(USSJ Final Flash) = 800.000.000 - his energy concentrated into a blast instead of spreading all out into his fist.
Trunks(USSJ2) = 810.000.000.
- Full power = 855.000.000 - most certainly stronger than Cell, his speed however is inferior to his.
Perfect Cell(Buff) = 960.000.000 - Cell has no need to go full power in this instance.

Goku = 35.600.000 - hypothetical base
- 50% FPSSJ = 890.000.000
Gohan = 42.000.000 - hypothetical base
Mr. Satan = 15 - it's only ki level, his physical level(durability, strength etc.) is below first appearance Goku.
Goku(100% FPSSJ) = 1.780.000.000
Perfect Cell(83,7%) = 1.800.000.000
Gohan(88% FPSSJ) = 1.850.000.000
-Unseen 100% = 2.100.000.000.
Cell Jrs. = 1.100.000.000
Goku(fatigued) < 750.000.000 - and decreasing
Piccolo(max) = 816.000.000
Vegeta and Trunks USSJ(or is it SSJ??) = 1.000.000.000
Gohan SSJ2 = 3.700.000.000
Perfect Cell(MAX) = 2.150.000.000
- Perfect Bulk(Batman + Hulk) = 3.225.000.000
Super Perfect Cell = 3.800.000.000
- MAX = 4.300.000.000.
Gohan SSJ2 MAX = 4.200.000.000.

[dbgtFO]

Revision of The Buu Saga 6th(and hopefully last) edit

1. Good guys(strongest to weakest): SSJ Vegetto, Vegetto, Ultimate Gohan, SSJ 3 Gotenks, SSJ 3 Goku, SSJ 2 Gotenks, SSJ Gotenks, SSJ 2 Goku = Majin Vegeta = Dead SSJ 2 Vegeta, Gotenks, SSJ 2 Vegeta = SSJ Goku = Dead SSJ Vegeta, SSJ 2 Gohan, SSJ Vegeta, Kibitoshin, SSJ Gohan = Piccolo, South Kaioshin, Grand Kaioshin, Kaioshin, SSJ Trunks, SSJ Goten, #18.

2. Bad Guys(strongest to weakest): Buuhan, Buutenks, Kid Buu(with South Kaioshin), Original Kid Buu(not seperated from Mr. Buu), Kid Buu, Buucolo, Super Buu = Fat Buu(full power not seen), Evil Buu, Mr. Buu, Dabra, Yakon, Pui Pui, Spopovich = Yamu.

3. SSJ transformations: I don't believe in limits anyways, so SSJ multiplier is 50 times base.
SSJ =50x base, SSJ 2 = 100x base, SSJ 3 = 500x base. Because Vegeta is implied to be weaker, than SSJ 2 Kid Gohan, without the Babidi spell, his SSJ 2 multiplier is weaker, than Goku and Gohan's. Vegeta SSJ 2= SSJ*1,5. Because Gotenks has only begun to learn and control the SSJ 3, his multiplier will be reduced to 2,5*SSJ.

4. Kiri and BP: A kiri level of 1 = BP of 100.000.

5. Dance fusion: for base forms: average of the characters times 1000, if fusing as SSJs: average of the characters' SSJ*50.

6. Potara fusion: average of the characters times 1200. SSJ multiplier will also be decreased to 2,5 sadly.
Kaioshins have decreasing multiplier based on their rank compared to each other.
Kaioshin fusion with lower ranks and effects:
Rank:
If fusing with Kaioshin: gets full 1200 multiplier divided by 1.
If fusing with Kaio: gets full 1200 multiplier divided by 10.
If fusing with Kaioshin attendants: gets full 1200 multiplier divided by 100. Example: "Kibitoshin"
If fusing with Kami: gets full multiplier 1200 divided by 1000.
If fusing with humans of the lower realm: 1200 gets full multiplier divided by 10.000. Example: "Old Kaioshin."

If there is a difference in power of more than 10 times however the effect will be halved(not for Kaioshins). The effect will be halved again if there is more than a 100 times difference and so on. You can see it in the factor, for example 10 times difference is 10^1, 1 standing for halving once, while 100 times difference is 10^2, 2 standing for halving twice. This also means if Goku and Satan were to fuse their powerlevel wouldn't be that high.
Goku = 75.000.000
Mr. Satan = 7,5
Difference = Goku's BP is 10.000.000 times higher.
Effect halving = 10^7, It's going to be halved 7 times!
Result (7,5*1200) = 9000/10^7 = 70,3125, so as you see a pretty stupid idea and Mr. Satan's inability to use ki might have a pretty big influence on the fusion as well.

7. Absorptions: Like Cell's absorptions, Buu's adds to his own, with the exception of the Grand Kaioshin(Dai Kaioshin) who is stated to lower his power.

And now on to the power levels.

Mr. Satan= 7,5 - He didn't train and therefore lost half his power.
Videl= 30 - Gohan notes she is even better than Satan, and with her now controlling ki it is this high!
Goten= 5.600.000. - strong as hell for a kid, but he is the offspring of a SSJ!
-(SSJ)= 280.000.000.
Trunks= 6.600.000. - same as Goten.
-(SSJ)= 330.000.000.
Gohan= 30.000.000.
-(SSJ)= 1.500.000.000.
-(SSJ2)= 3.000.000.000
Vegeta= 50.000.000. - he states to Goku in Babidi's spaceship, that both he and Goku outclass Gohan.
-(SSJ)= 2.500.000.000 - pretty fucked up, that he can be on par with SSJ 2 Gohan using only SSJ, but Gohan got a good deal weaker, so I'm gonna go with that.
-(SSJ2)= 3.750.000.000. - I think he got it before the Majin spell.
Goku= 75.000.000. - Otherworld training> Earthly training nuff said.
-(SSJ)= 3.750.000.000 - vs. Yakon it's: Kiri = 3000; BP = 300.000.000 - Goku only wanted to show light.
-SSJ 2 Burst = 4.000.000.000.
-(SSJ2)= 7.500.000.000. - surpasses Gohan (and SPC Cell), as noted by Vegeta.
-(SSJ3)= 37.500.000.000. - stronger than EVER, however he loses power rather quickly when alive..
Kullilin = 90.000, he didn't train in 7 years.
#18 = 260.000.000 - nothing has changed.
Piccolo(MAX)= 1.500.000.000. - AFAIK he only trained, after the invite to the 25th Tournament.
Kibito= 20.000.000. - is implied to be so strong that Gohan had to show his true power to win(true base power that is.)
Kaioshin= 600.000.000 - Thanks to Piccolo now having the knowledge of Kami he is spared a clear loss.
Yamu & Spopovich= 90 - they were probably strong already, Babidi just made them supass their limits.
Puipui= 8.000.000 - makes sense to me.
Yakon: Kiri = 800, BP= 80.000.000. - a LOT stronger than Puipui, therefore a good choice by Babidi.
Dabra(suppressed)= 1.000.000.000. - When killing Kibito and before fighting Gohan.
Dabra(max)= 1.600.000.000 - When fighting Gohan.
Majin Vegeta= 7.500.000.000. - equal to Goku.
Energy required to release Fat Buu= 7.500.000.000. - I think Gohan's SSJ2 energy was 40%(it is only stated it was close to half)
Fat Buu(suppressed)= 2.340.000.000. - Gohan said he could beat him, if he attained his true power(SSJ2).
-(angry)= 11.700.000.000. - Gohan says he is way too strong for him! Vegeta doesn't stand a chance!
SSJ 3 Goku (vs. Fat Buu)= 12.000.000.000 - Goku later states to Vegeta he could have beaten Fat Buu, and that he wanted Gotenks to protect the earth, so Goku was indeed holding back against Fat Buu, I say he only powered up to 32%.
Gotenks= 6.100.000.000 - he is crasy strong, but as Piccolo notes he is far from strong enough.
-(SSJ)= 15.250.000.000
Fat Buu(splitting point)<< 32.760.000.000. - Fat Buu's power has been locked away by Grand Kaioshin, if he gets too angry, he will reach his limit and the evil will dispel from him, he never hits 32.76 bil. because as he is oozing he loses the power as the smoke becomes Evil Buu, and Fat Buu becomes Mr. Buu.
Evil Buu= 21.860.000.000. - the narrator states Evil Buu got most of the power.
Mr. Buu(+South Kaioshin)= 10.900.000.000. Minus Grand Kaioshin(but still with South Kaioshin) = 12.700.000.000 - is dominated by Evil Buu.
Super Buu= 32.760.000.000. - can access close to all of Fat Buu's power, also Piccolo notes he is stronger than before. The reason why he isn't superior to Kid Buu is because he is still restrained by Grand Kaioshin.

In the Room of Spirit and Time..
Goten= 6.000.000. - gotten a little stronger
Trunks= 7.000.000. - the same goes for Trunks.
Piccolo = 1.500.000.000
Gotenks= 6.500.000.000. - the same way as the first time, Piccolo notes his power has increased.
-(SSJ)= 16.250.000.000
-(SSJ3)= 40.625.000.000. -the fusion is shorter than normally.

Fusion Saga
Ultimate Gohan= 55.000.000.000.
Buutenks(Gotenks+Piccolo)= 74.885.000.000 -his inner body parts are able to sustain the SSJ3 fusion for 30 min. apparently or else he would have been f@*&ed!
Kibitoshin= 3.720.000.000. - check out point 6, Elder Kai said he wasn't strong enough to fight.
Buuccolo(Piccolo+Goten+Trunks)= 34.273.000.000.
Buuhan(Gohan+Piccolo+Trunks+Goten)= 89.273.000.000
Vegeta = 75.000.000 - thanks to Babidi's spell he is now at the same base level as Goku.
-SSJ = 3.750.000.000 - and his SSJ has also gone beyond previous limitations.
Vegetto= 90.000.000.000 - Buu was visibly surprised, when he was born.
-(SSJ)= 225.000.000.000 - he probably didn't even use this much power against Buuhan, it's just... overkill

Kibitoshin's flashback
Original Buu= 45.000.000.000.
South Kaioshin = 1.000.000.000 - weaker than SSJ Gohan.
Buff Buu = 46.000.000.000
Grand Kaioshin = 800.000.000 - weaker than South Kaioshin.
Fat Buu(unreachable full power) = 46.800.000.000
Fat Buu(useable power) = 11.700.000.000. - in my fanon Grand Kaioshin makes 75% of Buu's power unaccesable without splitting in two.

Final fight
Kid Buu = 35.100.000.000 - Goku stated his strenght was increasing and noone contradicted him meaning it never stopped until he was finished.
Goku(SSJ3)= 37.500.000.000. - and decreasing as every second goes by.
SSJ 2 Vegeta = 7.500.000.000. whenever somebody gets their potential unlocked, they keep the power, the same concept is applied to Vegeta of course.
Mr. Buu = 10.900.000.000 - still not a threat to Buu. If someone ripped out the two Kaioshins another Kid Buu would appear with a BP = 11.700.000.000
Genkidama = 40.000.000.000 - the fact, that Buu was able to stop it, but got obliterated anyway, shows me that it wasn't that much stronger, and it needed that extra push.

10 years later..
Goku= 80.000.000 - Credible, if you ask me.
Pan= 3.000.000.
Gohan= 55.000.000.000 - according to his eyes(drawn all the way like SSJ) he is still Ultimate.
Uub= 80~80.000.000. - he hasn't learned to control his full power yet, and why would anyone think that?!

Next up Battle statistics part 8!

[Godo]

In the "Your inside fanon" thread, I posted about a minicomic I am going to create, where Bee and Mr. Satan become ultimate Mecha Warriors, and I made some powerlevels for it.
Here I'll post even more of them, and their "Ultimate" forms are when they are upgraded by parts from Freeza's ship (and that's when they create their own signature attacks):


Mecha Bee, man's best friend:
Relaxed: 5
Catching ball: 2,000
Playing around: 1,200,000
Serious: 150,000,000
Max: 250,000,000
Kaio-ken x10: 2,500,000,000

Ultimate Mecha Bee, man's ultimate best friend:
Relaxed: 10
Catching ball: 10,000
Playing around: 5,000,000
Serious: 200,000,000
Max: 400,000,000
Kaio-ken x10: 4,000,000,000
Pee-nal Flash: 1,800,000,000
Pee-nal Flash x10: 18,000,000,000

Mecha Mr. Satan, a woman's dream:
Relaxed: 10
With women: 5
Goofing around: 15,000
Showing off: 1,500,000
Serious: 175,000,000
Max: 300,000,000
Kaio-ken x10: 3,000,000,000

Ultimate Mecha Mr. Satan, a woman's ultimate dream:
Relaxed: 20
With women: 5,5
Goofing around: 30,000
Showing off: 3,000,000
Serious: 250,000,000
Max: 500,000,000
Kaio-ken x10: 5,000,000,000
Satan Ultimate Megaton Non-trick Hyper Ultra Laser Beam!!!: 2,000,000,000
Satan Ultimate Megaton Non-trick Hyper Ultra Laser Beam!!! x10: 20,000,000,000

Goku:
Base: 4,500,000
SSJ: 225,000,000
MSSJ: 2,500,000,000
SSJ2: 5,000,000,000
SSJ3: 20,000,000,000
SSJ3 Kamehameha (max): 25,000,000,000

Vegeta:
Base: 4,000,000
SSJ: 200,000,000
MSSJ: 2,250,000,000
SSJ2: 4,500,000,000
SSJ3: 18,000,000,000
Final Flash: 22,000,000,000
Self-destruct: 35,000,000,000

Goku and Vegeta are not active in the story per se, they only fight Bee and Mr. Satan once in the story.

General Tuff (1st enemy):
Relaxed: 2
Playing tennis with his henchman: 10
Not giving a shit about a fight: 30,000
Starting to give a shit about a fight: 3,500,000
Serious: 450,000,000
Max: 4,500,000,000

Sergeant Buff (General Tuff's henchman):
Relaxed: 0,5
Playing tennis with General Tuff: 15
Totally giving a shit about a fight but bored: 5,000
Taking the fight seriously: 1,000,000
Really serious: 120,000,000
Max: 1,200,000,000

Lieutenant Gruff (General Tuff's henchman):
Relaxed: 1
Playing videogames: 5
Warming up: 10,000,
Fighting seriously: 2,000,000
Going even more seriously: 200,000,000
Can't be more serious (max): 2,000,000,000

Major Puff (General Tuff's cat)
Relaxed: 0,05
Chasing a space mouse: 2
Fighting for his life: 20

Nooma the great (2nd enemy, takes elements from the planet he is on):
Base: 15,000
Form 1 (water base) : 4,500,000
Water beam: 5,500,000
Form 2 (water base + dirt base = mud base): 300,000,000
Mud beam: 400,000,000
Form 3 (mud base + fire base = stone base): 2,500,000,000
Stone beam: 3,500,000,000
Form 4 (stone base + gravity base = diamond base): 35,000,000,000
Diamond beam: 45,000,000,000

"?" (Hayaa! Won't tell you about this character yet!)
-: ?
-: ??
-:???

[p123]

Hey guys, wanted to see your feedback on some of the theories I have been using...

SSJ has differing stages....


SSJ - regular SSJ, has a 50x boost.

Seen, Freeza Arc, Androids Arc


Trained SSJ - differing boosts ranging from 5-50x

Seen, Post Rosat 1,2 Vegeta/Trunks


MSSJ SSJ - Boost 5x Base

Seen, Goku/Gohan Cell Games, Vegeta Buu Arc
This is more like MSSJ/5 than Base x 5. MSSJ reaches the full potential as a SSJ. Although not a strict limit, it generally reduces the increases in your base/SSJ to a snail's pace.




Cell


Imperfect Cell + 17 = Initial Semi Cell
Semi Cell Full Power + 18 = Initial Perfect Cell



SSj2 is a 3x multiplier.

Why? Because the 2x is just frankly too small. SSJ2 >>> PC >>>SSJ is implied heavily. There should be a good amount of spacing. With a 2x boost it is way too tight and the implications of a SSJ Gohan killing a SSJ2 Gohan is ridicolous. Not to mention it still keeps SSJ2 as an inferior boost to SSj3.



Fusion Multipliers

It is not AxB , if it was 2 Roshi's would create a power greater than Saiyan Saga Vegeta, which is ridicolous.


Fusion Transformation Multipliers...


SSJ Gotenks ~ SSj3 Goku > Fat Buu > Base Gotenks > Majin Buu


base-SSJ for fusions cut unfused transformations in half.

So for...


SSJ = 2.5 boost
SSj2 = 1.5 boost
SSj3 = 2x boost


This is probably the best thing I came up with honestly. The halving boost really work perfectly and fit nicely.


Um what else I got...


Vegeta kept his power up post revival. Nothing suggests there is a difference between Goku and Vegeta except for SSj3. Not to mention that losing or gaining power should be directly noted,implied , which no statement is made about, so the logical option would be to maintain his current power set.


Gohan keeps his power up post revivial.


Piccolo + kami = Piccolo x 2



Future Gohan ~ Future Trunks ~ Goku Namek ~ 40-50% of Future Android 17

Piccolo Androids = 50% 17 > Yardrat Goku > SSj trunks




Hmm.... That about covers it all. Meh, posted way too much going to be too much to deal with...


Hey were is Herms, wanted to go over some stuff with him. Anyone have a good sense of GT here , and how to make it not so conistent?



Oh yea Buu of course , he's a big one...


Buff > Super > Kid > Fat > Evil > Good


Surely there should be some debate on that...

Also potentially


SSJ2 Gohan = 48% of Good Buu


Good Buu equals the power given to him to be at full power, but his anger,evil is what powers him up beyond that. That's a new one not really confident in that....



I think that about covers everything I got.

[dbgtFO]

Hey were is Herms, wanted to go over some stuff with him. Anyone have a good sense of GT here , and how to make it not so conistent?

Wouldn't it be better if it was consistent instead of not being it?

Oh yea Buu of course , he's a big one...
Buff > Super > Kid > Fat > Evil > Good
Surely there should be some debate on that...

Yep because I believe Buff>Kid>Super=Fat Buu(unuseable power)>Evil>Good. It's simple when transforming from Super to Buff to kid, Goku stated his strength was increasing and since noone contradicted that, then his strength didn't stop increasing until he reached his kid buu form. Goku and Vegeta's initial reactions can't be used for measuring his power because they later admit they severely underestimated him.
But I'm one of the few, who thinks that way, most people believe Super>Kid.

Also potentially
SSJ2 Gohan = 48% of Good Buu
Good Buu equals the power given to him to be at full power, but his anger,evil is what powers him up beyond that. That's a new one not really confident in that....
I think that about covers everything I got.

Yeah I usually just say that close to half(in my case 40%) of Gohan's SSJ 2 power was contributed to both awaken Buu, but also power him up with an emphasis on awakening him.

If you like some others believe that all the energy was used to power him up(meaning SSj 2 Gohan was at close to half of Fat Buu's full strength) then the chart would look something like this(where Super Buu is stronger). In this chart the SSJ multipliers will be: SSJ 2 = 2*SSJ, SSJ 3 = 3*SSJ

Super Buu(Gohan absorbed) = 250%
Super Buu(Gotenks + Piccolo) = 220%
Gohan = 150%
SSJ 3 Gotenks = 120%
Fat Buu(with South Kaioshin + Grand Kaioshin) = 100% -although he can't use the majority of his power, to revive him you still need to contribute his potentially full power.
Super Buu = 100%
SSJ 3 Goku = 90% - is stronger than a Fat Buu, who can't use his full power, but has difficulty reaching his full power.
Evil Buu = Kid Buu = 80%
Fat Buu(useable power) = 65%
SSJ 2 Goku = Majin Vegeta = 60%
SSJ 2 Kid Gohan = 50%
SSj 2 Gohan = 40%
Mr. Buu = 20% - and this is why I think the idea, that the energy needed for Buu's revival was also his full power falls apart, SSJ Gohan could beat him by now. That's why the idea of the energy contributed only going to Buu's good part is much better.

[p123]

Saiyan Saga Part 1


Roshi 139
Yamcha 177
Kuririn 206
Tien 250

Piccolo
~ Weights 322
~ Full Power 408

Goku
~Weights 334
~Full Power 416


Raditz 1,220

Gohan
~Rage1 710
~Rage2 1,307





Saiyan Saga Part 2


Saibamen 1,200

Yamcha 1,200
Kuririn 1,400
Tien 1,700
Piccolo 2,250

Nappa 8,000

Goku
~Initial 5,000
~FullPower 8,060
~Kaioken 16,120
~KKx3 24,180
~KKx4 32,240

Vegeta 18,000
~Oozaru 180,000



Freeza's Henchmen


Kuririn 1,500
~Potential 10,500

Gohan 1,500
~ Potential 12,500



Kiwi 18,000
Dodoria 21,000
Zarbon 22,000
~Transformed 28,000

Vegeta 24,000
~Zenkai 30,000




Ginyu Force


Ginyu(Goku'sBody) 23,000

Kuririn 23,000

Gohan 27,000



Nail 42,000

Reecome 45,000
Burter 45,000
Jeice 45,000

Vegeta 30,000
~Zenkai 60,000

Ginyu 120,000

Goku 90,000
~Kaioken 180,000



Freeza Saga



Kuririn 75,000

Piccolo
~ Initial 300,000
~ Nail Fusion W/w 1,250,000
~ Nail Fusion 1,500,000

Gohan 275,000
~Rage 1,100,000
~Zenkai 450,000
~Rage 1,800,000

Vegeta 475,000
~Zenkai 2,400,000


Freeza
~ 3rd Suppression 530,000
~Initial 2nd 1,060,000
~Power Up 2nd 1,200,000
~ 2nd Suppression 1,400,000
~ 1st Suppression 2,250,000
~ Initial True Form 3,300,000
~ 50% 70,000,000
~ 70% 98,000,000
~ 100% 140,000,000


Goku 3,000,000
~KKx10 30,000,000
~KKx20 60,000,000
~SSJ 150,000,000






Mecha Freeza Saga

Yamcha 365,000

Kuririn 400,000

Gohan 450,000

Tien 560,000

Vegeta 2,750,000

Piccolo 4,000,000

King Cold
~ Full Power 100,000,000


Trunks 3,100,000
~SSJ 155,000,000


Mecha Freeza
~ Initial 100,000,000
~FullPower(NotShown) 160,000,000


Goku 3,500,000
~SSJ 175,000,000







Androids Saga


Yamcha 1,770,000

Kuririn 2,060,000

Gohan 3,000,000

Tien 3,500,000

Android 19 110,000,000

Android 20 120,000,000


Trunks 4,500,000
~SSJ 225,000,000

Goku 5,200,000
~SSJ 260,000,000

Vegeta 5,400,000
~SSJ 270,000,000

Cyborg 18 350,000,000

Cyborg 17 375,000,000

Piccolo 187,500,000
~Kami Fusion W/w 345,000,000
~Kami Fusion 375,000,000


Android 16 500,000,000

Imperfect Cell 300,000,000
~Post Absorbtion 500,000,000




Future Androids Saga


Future Gohan 3,000,000
~ SSJ 150,000,000





Cell Saga


Goku
~ SSJ 260,000,000
~ USSJ 390,000,000
~USSJ2 975,000,000


Vegeta
~SSJ 900,000,000
~USSJ 1,350,000,000

Semi Cell
~ Initial 875,000,000
~ Full Power 1,000,000,000
~ Initial PC 1,350,000,000
~ Perfect Cell 2,500,000,000

Trunks
~SSJ 800,000,000
~USSJ 1,200,000,000
~USSJ2 3,000,000,000



Cell Games


Piccolo 750,000,000

Cell Juniors 3,500,000,000

Trunks
~SSJ 3,500,000,000

Vegeta
~SSJ 3,500,000,000


Goku 1,000,000,000
~50% SSJ 2,500,000,000
~ SSJ 5,000,000,000

Perfect Cell
~ Suppressed 2,500,000,000
~ Powered Up 6,000,000,000
~ Full Power 10,000,000,000
~ Super Perfect 17,000,000,000

Gohan 1,200,000,000
~SSJ 6,000,000,000
~SSJ2 18,000,000,000




Buu Saga Part 1


Tien 5,000,000

Kibito 500,000,000

Piccolo 850,000,000

Yakon 1,000,000,000

Goten
~SSJ 1,280,000,000

Trunks
~SSJ 1,350,000,000


Kaioshin 3,000,000,000

Dabura 4,750,000,000

Gohan 900,000,000
~SSJ 4,500,000,000
~SSJ2 13,500,000,000

Vegeta 1,100,000,000
~SSJ 5,500,000,000
~SSJ2 16,500,000,000


Goku
~ SSJ2 Burst 17,500,000,000



Buu Saga Part 2



Majin Vegeta 1,333,400,000
~SSJ 6,667,000,000
~SSJ2 20,000,000,000


Fat Buu
~ Initial 4,000,000,000
~ Power Up1 8,000,000,000
~ Power Up2 16,000,000,000
~ Good 25,000,000,000
~ Evil 35,000,000,000
~ Full Power 60,000,000,000

Gotenks 32,000,000,000
~ SSJ 80,000,000,000

Gohan
~Post Z Sword 2,000,000,000
~ SSJ 10,000,000,000
~ SSJ2 30,000,000,000


Buu Saga Part 2


Goten 800,000,000
~SSJ 4,000,000,000

Trunks 800,000,000
~SSJ 4,000,000,000



Gotenks 100,000,000,000
~SSJ 250,000,000,000
~SSJ2 375,000,000,000
~SSJ3 750,000,000,000



Ultimate Gohan 1,000,000,000,000



Super Buu 700,000,000,000
~Buff 880,000,000,000
~Buutenks 1,450,000,000,000
~Buuhan 1,700,000,000,000



Vegetto 1,200,000,000,000
~SSJ 3,000,000,000,000



Buu Saga Part 3


Kaioshin 15,500,000,000



Vegeta 1,333,400,000
~SSJ 6,667,000,000
~SSJ2 20,000,000,000


Mr. Buu 25,000,000,000


Goku 1,333,400,000
~SSJ 6,667,000,000
~SSJ2 20,000,000,000
~SSJ3 80,000,000,000



Kid Buu 88,000,000,000








Movies+Anime


Turles 30,000
~Post Fruit 400,000


Olibu 875,000,000

Cooler 140,000,000
~ Final Form 470,000,000
~ Meta 1,000,000,000

East Kaioshin 3,000,000,000
North Kaioshin 3,250,000,000
West Kaioshin 3,500,000,000
Dai Kaioshin 3,750,000,000
South Kaioshin 4,000,000,000


Pikkon
~Weights 950,000,000
~Full Power 5,250,000,000


Bojack
~ Initial 6,500,000,000
~ Transformed 9,500,000,000


Broly
~ SSJ 6,800,000,000
~ LSSJ 17,000,000,000


Super Janemba 800,000,000,000

Gogeta 500,000,000,000
~SSJ 1,250,000,000,000


Gokan 1,500,000,000,000
~SSJ 3,750,000,000,000










1) Always assume full power,unless told otherwise.

2) If a power up is not noted , it didn't happen.

3) Statements are true,unless contradicted.







Base x 50 = SSJ
SSJ x 1.5 = USSJ
USSJ x 2.5 = USSJ2
SSJ x 2.5 = LSSJ
MSSJ/5 = Base
MSSJx3 = SSJ2
SSJ2x4 = SSJ3


Fusion multipliers are cut in half...

Base x 2.5 = SSJ
SSJ x 1.5 = SSJ2
SSJ2 x 2 = SSJ3





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoD5Ayro1U4
Freeza saga






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0L2zrmMr6Q
Cell Saga







http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaEYD1bONHE
Buu Saga





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4LFLGo69KM
Movies/Anime

[Nazi Cola]

Mecha Freeza Saga

Vegeta 2,750,000

Piccolo 4,000,000

Piccolo more than doubled his power yet Vegeta doesn't even get a 500,000 boost when they're both stated to have trained for the year before Freeza came back?

Androids Saga


Yamcha 1,770,000

Kuririn 2,060,000

Gohan 3,000,000

Tenshinhan 3,500,000

Trunks 4,500,000
~SSJ 225,000,000

Goku 5,200,000
~SSJ 260,000,000

Vegeta 5,400,000
~SSJ 270,000,000

The humans sure grow at a much faster rate than the Saiyans, despite Vegeta having 450x gravity and them not.

[p123]

Yes Piccolo's Potential >>>>> Base Saiyan Potential

At least at this point. Look how strong Piccolo is suggested to in the Androids Arc. Piccolo doesnt have SSJ or Kaioken or anything. That is all him. Also Piccolo literally challenges Vegeta who doesn't respond, and responds like how many tough guys do when they are overmatched. Take it out on someone else. In Vegeta's case he yells at Bulma. Piccolo isn't generally the challenging type either unless he feels superior. He doesn't generally act as if he could do something to someone he knows he can't.

But the main point is Piccolo's new found potential now that fusing with Nail, grants him enormous gains, which logically should effect his Mecha Freeza power along with his Androids Arc power. I just am showing this potential, and where it started from. As it didn't appear out of thin air you know?


I have Yardrat Goku/ Vegeta as having similar increases potential wise. WHy?





1) I feel the Saiyans have hit somewhat of a limit after the zenkais. Sure they increase a good margin for the androids training, but not to anywhere close to the extent the receive in the Namek Saga with the zenkais and such. I think the Saiyans are nearing their limit at least for the time being. WHich helps explain why the need for " surpassing the SSJ " If they could increase so much, they would just need 1 year of regular rosat training, and wouldn't need to surpass SSJ power. WHich in itself the implication is a general range or set of power for regular SSJ, which Goku comments on about Vegeta while he is standing on the rock trying to see past the implied SSJ power wall.


2) I attribute the smaller gains also for type of training. Vegeta while still training has become humanized a bit, we see him in his tough guy pink jacket. I think he was distracted a little bit and influenced by this new Earth lifestyle. Still training yes, but not training nearly as hard as he was for the androids. Goku as well had distractions. He implies he spent a majority of his time learning the IT technique, as well as mastering the ability to transform into SSJ at will.


3) I agree. The humans are shot. THey increase merely due to plot device. I didn't want to make Tien too weak and cause his Shin Kikoho multiplier to be in the 1000x range so I just boosted him up and attribute it to increased potential from King Kai training or whatever. Either way those shouldn't be taken too seriously. THe guy making my video puts those in, which are my numbers , but at the time I did away with Humans after Kuririn vs Freeza. They simply are impossible to truly gauge. But I hadn't removed them from my list, he put them in the video, which then forced me to include them in mine. I don't have a major problme with them,. but they aren't a note of perfection as I see the rest of my levels. So yes, the human powers in the Mecha Freeza/Androids Arc don't need to be taken too seriously. They are just a wild guess, and I am incapable of judging human strenght. Not enough for me to go on. I simply used the scouter readings Bulma found using Raditz scouter which were 177,206,250 and maintained them over the duration of the series until Kuririn/Yamcha state they stopped trianing.



I don't think Vegeta ever used 450x gravity. From what I recall in the manga he only used 300x. Isn't 450x an anime thing?

[Olympian]

Yamcha was stronger than the Saibamen.

[p123]

I think that's debatable. Yamcha fights evenly with the Saibamen, and hits him with a Kamehameha , which hurts the Saibamen, but does not finish him. Then the Saibamen blows himself and Yamcha up.

Yamcha is looking pretty confident, but Vegeta also suggests that the Saibamen wasn't fighting to full abilities.

Especially when Tien who is far superior to Yamcha, has some trouble one shotting the Saibamen. You see he lets out a big breathe after landing the punch, suggesting he put his all into it, to take the Saibamen out.


I don't see how Yamcha fighting evenly,landing a Kamehameha, that doesn't destroy the Saibamen, and then getting killed by the Saibamen, prove he is superior to them.

[Olympian]

I think that's debatable.

The reactions that Vegeta and Nappa have at watching the two fights (Ten and Yamcha) are clearly about how they both surpassed Raditz. We know Ten is above that, and the reaction towards Yamcha was the same.

Yamcha is looking pretty confident, but Vegeta also suggests that the Saibamen wasn't fighting to full abilities

Where? All he suggest was that the Saibamen wasen`t finished. And neither was Tenshinhan`s. But given how just one well placed blow was enough to put either Saibamen down (while giving time for some talk in either case), i don`t see how they can be as powerful.

Especially when Tenshinhan who is far superior to Yamcha, has some trouble one shotting the Saibamen. You see he lets out a big breathe after landing the punch, suggesting he put his all into it, to take the Saibamen out.

Not according to Vegeta. Note that i am not saying that the Saibamen wouldn`t be capable to hurt or kill them with desperate attacks. Ten had to dodge the acid throw and Yamcha died with a suicide attack, but both attacks were/would be easily dodgeable by either guy.

There is no big breath, either. All he mutters is a "pfiu", and very obviously he would have to exert himself a bit. No is saying the Saibamen were so weak that they would explode just for the humans looking at them.

I don't see how Yamcha fighting evenly,landing a Kamehameha, that doesn't destroy the Saibamen, and then getting killed by the Saibamen, prove he is superior to them.

If you leave out certain context in the manga, i can see one getting the same notion that you do. Alas, he didn`t effort as much, his Kame wave, which you can only guess as being a kame wave thanks to way the hands are drawn firing it up, barely took power to do - as opposed the multiple times characters performed the wave, with the chant and taking time to power it up.

They weren`t going for the kill either, they were buying time for Goku to show up with a little tournament. The main humans knew they were more powerful than Raditz have been, that is one of the main points of the arc. As for the last point, Yamcha dies against a powered attack, coming up as a surprise.

I think it`s clear that the humans without exerting themselves much were more powerful than the Saibamen who needed powered up maneuveurs.

[buffninja91]

Saiyan Through Frieza Levels



Saiyan Conflict

Raditz - 1,300
_Damaged – 1,100
Son Goku - 334 / 416
Piccolo - 322 / 408
_Special Beam Cannon – 1,330
_After Battle - 329
Son Gohan – 1 / 710
_Angry – 1,307

Roshi - 139
Yamcha - 177
Krillin - 206
Tienshinhan - 250

King Yemma – 1,800
King Kai – 3,500

Vegeta and Nappa

Piccolo - 1,220 / 2,750
Krillin - 1,080 / 1,770
Son Gohan - 981 / 1,620
Yamcha - 1,350
Chiaotzu - 610
Tienshinhan - 1,830

Saibamen – 1,200
Nappa - 4,000 / 7,800

Son Goku - 5,000 / 8,200
_Kaioken - 16,400
_Fatigued – 8,000
_Kaioken x3 - 24,000
_Kaioken x4 – 32,000
_Worn Out – 3,100

Vegeta - 16,750
_Full Power – 18,000
_Fatigued – 10,000
_Great Ape - 85,000
_Battle Damaged - 6,400 _Heavily Injured - 1,900

Yajirobe - 970

-Arrival on Namek

Krillin – “~1,500”
Son Gohan – “~1,500”

Kiwi - 18,000
Vegeta - 24,000
_Healed – 30,000

Namekian Warriors - 1,000 / 3,000
Dodoria - 22,000
Zarbon - 23,000
_Monster – 28,000

-Ginyu Force!

Guldo - 6,100
Krillin - 13,000
Son Gohan - 14,000

Vegeta - 30,000

Recoome - 43,000
Jeice - 43,000
Burter - 43,000
Captain Ginyu - 65,000
_Full Power – 120,000
_In Goku – 23,000

Son Goku – 5,000
_Vs. Ginyu Force – 60,000
_Full Power – 90,000
_Kaioken - 180,000

-

Krillin - 27,000
Son Gohan - 31,000
Vegeta - 250,000

Nail - 42,000

Battle Against Frieza

Frieza - 530,000
_2nd Form - 1,060,000 / 1,250,000 / 1,500,000
_3rd Form - 2,200,000
Piccolo - 1,300,000 / 1,550,000
Gohan – 100,000
_Angry – 1,150,000
_Healed – 200,000
_Enraged – 2,000,000
Krillin – 75,000

Vegeta - 470,000
_Healed – 2,450,000

Frieza - 3,100,000
_Fifty Percent - 60,000,000
_Seventy Percent - 84,000,000
_One Hundred Percent - 120,000,000

Son Goku – 3,000,000
_Kaio-ken x10 - 30,000,000
_Kaio-ken x20 - 60,000,000
_Super Saiyan - 150,000,000

[buffninja91]

Trunks Through End Levels


-Trunks Appears

King Cold - 10,000,000
_Full Power – 100,000,000
Frieza - 12,000,000
_Full Power – 140,000,000

Vegeta – 2,875,000
Piccolo – 2,520,000

Tienshinhan – 57,000
Yamcha – 49,000
Chiaotzu – 34,000

Trunks – 3,100,000
_Super Saiyan – 155,000,000
Son Goku - 3,200,000
_Super Saiyan – 160,000,000

-Android Threat

Son Goku - 4,800,000
_Super Saiyan - 240,000,000
_Sick – 170,000,000 and decreasing
_Kamehameha – 50,000,000

Android 19 - 25,000,000
_Goku’s Energy – 65,000,000
_Vegeta’s Energy – 85,000,000

Vegeta - 4,916,250
_Super Saiyan - 245,812,500
_Drained – 205,000,000
_Big Bang Attack – 230,000,000

Android 20 – 40,000,000
_Energy Absorbed – 75,000,000
Piccolo - 100,000,000
Yamcha – 90,650
Tienshinhan – 125,400
Krillin – 136,800
Son Gohan – 2,500,000
Super Saiyan Trunks – 201,500,000

Android 18 - 290,000,000
Android 17 - 300,000,000

Bio-Warrior Cell

Piccolo - 285,000,000
_Full Power – 300,000,000
_Fatigued – 280,000,000

Cell - 265,000,000
_Kamehameha – 290,000,000
_Plus Humans - 330,000,000
Android 16 - 330,000,000

Cell’s Transformation

Semi-Perfect Cell - 480,000,000
_Full Power – 630,000,000
_Perfect – 830,000,000
Vegeta - 10,000,000 _Super Saiyan – 500,000,000
_Ascended Saiyan – 670,000,000
Trunks – 9,900,000
_Super Saiyan – 495,000,000
_Ascended Saiyan –663,300,000
_Ultra Saiyan – 841,500,000

The Cell Games

Son Goku – 34,032,000
_Half Power Super Saiyan – 850,800,000
_Full Power Super Saiyan – 1,701,600,000
_Exhausted – 1,000,000,000

Son Gohan – 38,500,000
_Super Saiyan – 1,925,000,000
_Super Saiyan 2 – 3,850,000,000
_Injured – 3,000,000,000

Cell Juniors – 1,250,000,000
Piccolo - 705,000,000
Trunks - 23,067,000
_Super Saiyan – 1,153,350,000
Vegeta – 24,000,000
_Super Saiyan – 1,200,000,000

Cell – 870,000,000
_Powered Up – 1,770,000,000
_Full Power – 2,550,000,000
_Power Weighted – 3,300,000,000
_Super Perfect – 3,800,000,000


7 Years Later

Son Goten - 5,880,000
_Super Saiyan - 294,000,000

Trunks - 5,950,000
_Super Saiyan - 297,500,000

Son Gohan - 37,000,000
_Super Saiyan – 1,850,000,000
_Super Saiyan 2 – 3,700,000,000

World Tournament

Son Goten - 6,000,000
_Super Saiyan - 300,000,000

Trunks - 6,100,000
_Super Saiyan - 305,000,000

Android 18 – 290,000,000
Krillin – 164,160
Piccolo - 881,250,000
Supreme Kai - 885,000,000
Kibito - 37,000,000

Evil Babidi and Buu

Pui Pui – 2,250,000
Yakon - 50,000,000
Dabura – 2,000,000,000

Son Gohan - 37,378,641
_Super Saiyan – 1,868,932,050
_Super Saiyan 2 – 3,737,864,100

Vegeta - 55,200,000
_Super Saiyan – 2,760,000,000
_Super Saiyan 2 – 5,520,000,000
_Majin Vegeta – 5,000,000,000

Son Goku - 64,000,000
_Super Saiyan – 3,200,000,000
_Super Saiyan 2 – 6,400,000,000
_Super Saiyan 3 - 12,800,000,000

Majin Buu – 4,000,000,000 / 6,000,000,000 / 11,000,000,000
Gotenks – 72,000,000
_Super Saiyan - 3,600,000,000

Super Fusions!

Mister Buu – 5,000,000,000
Evil Buu - 6,000,000,000

Super Buu - 15,000,000,000
_Gotenks Absorbed – 301,081,250,000
_Piccolo Absorbed – 15,893,894,000
_Gohan Absorbed - 35,893,894,000

Goten – 6,300,000
_Super Saiyan – 315,000,000
Trunks – 6,344,000
_Super Saiyan – 317,200,000

Gotenks – 75,600,000
_Super Saiyan - 3,780,000,000
_Super Saiyan 3 - 15,120,000,000

Kibito Kai – 5,532,000,000
Tienshinhan – 180,000

Son Gohan - 20,000,000,000

Vegito - 1,280,000,000
_Super Saiyan – 64,000,000,000

The Original Majin Buu

Kid Buu - 12,500,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 Goku – 12,800,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta – 6,400,000,000
Mister Buu – 5,000,000,000

-Goodbye Dragon World

Son Goku - 79,360,000
Uub - 17 / 200,000

Vegeta – 79,040,000
Piccolo – 1,321,875,000

[p123]

Guess we have a difference in opinion on that then.

Yamcha Imo has a general range of 1200-1300.
Kuririn's range should be 1400-1500.


Remember, when Kuririn powers up on namek, his power is about 1500. So I take that into account. Did Kuririn get stronger on his way to Namek? Well he did some mind training, so who knows maybe a small increase or maybe he is equal to himself when he fought the Saibamen.


So as long as we are in the general range that' fine. I'm not really going to sit here and argue the difference of about 10% or so lol. Not really worth the time. The important thing is to have the right range.


Also, I applied this to my calculations. Just for note, but I think it's a cool way to do it...


Yamcha 177
Kuririn 206
Tien 250
Piccolo 329


I kept the same percentage differences between the fighters immeditaley after the Raditz Saga and applied those same gaps to the fighters against Nappa. pretty nifty right? Obviously that's not Piccolo's full power, hell it's not even his full weighted power. But I just took that and ran with it and hey it worked for me... Which is why I have...

Yamcha 1200
Kuririn 1400
Tien 1700
Piccolo 2250

Which is similar to having

Yamcha 86% of Kuririn
Kuririn 82% of Tien
Tien 76% of Piccolo


I liked that line of thought. Also followed with Piccolo being significantly than a raging Gohan's masenko ( 2800 ), which IMO , due to the progressive nature of DB, and the type of reaction warranted, should be by far the strongest power up until that point, besides Nappa of course.


So like I said as long as you agree with the general range that's all that matters, fighting over if this guy or that guy should be 5% stronger/weaker or 10% stronger/weaker, is honestly just a waste of time.

[dbgtFO]

Future Androids Saga
Future Gohan 3,000,000
~ SSJ 150,000,000

I want to see the rest of this^

Fat Buu
~ Good 25,000,000,000
~ Evil 35,000,000,000
~ Full Power 60,000,000,000

How did his Full power go from that^ to this:

Super Buu 700,000,000,000

Using logic: Super Buu = Evil Buu + Mr. Buu,
Using random numbers: Super Buu = Evil Buu*20
Explain please...

3) Statements are true,unless contradicted.

Then why is SSJ 3 Goku weaker than Kid Buu??

Goku 1,333,400,000
~SSJ 6,667,000,000
~SSJ2 20,000,000,000
~SSJ3 80,000,000,000
Kid Buu 88,000,000,000

Both Goku and Vegeta said Goku's full SSJ 3 power would be enough to obliterate Buu.

Base x 50 = SSJ
SSJ x 1.5 = USSJ
USSJ x 2.5 = USSJ2
SSJ x 2.5 = LSSJ
MSSJ/5 = Base
MSSJx3 = SSJ2
SSJ2x4 = SSJ3
Fusion multipliers are cut in half...
Base x 2.5 = SSJ
SSJ x 1.5 = SSJ2
SSJ2 x 2 = SSJ3

Your USSJ2 is a bit much, TBH, but if you can work with it, fine!
I don't believe in decreasing SSJ multiplier, and you can actually make SSJ2 = 2*SSJ work, if you adjust Gohan's 100% SSJ. And I use SSJ3 = SSJ*10, because I'm crazy as fuck.
Your fusion multipliers are good though!

[p123]

Thanks DBGTFO for taking time out of your day to go through my numbers. I appreciate your time.


1) Future vs Present is an iffy subject for me. Honestly I don't know which side to choose. I think both sides are evenly matched and I can't make up my mind.

The two sides being

Option A Present > Future
Option B Present = Future


For Option A I would make Future Gohan = 50% of Future 17.

Which would make

Android 17 = 300 million
Android 18 = 275 million

Or something like that. This is you take Trunks statements seriously.


If you don't and think etc etc logic then I would have them as equals. Which would make Future Gohan = 40% of Future 17 = 40% of Present 17.


Like I said, can't really make up my mind on either side, so I try not to rate things I do not feel confident in.



2) I don't think I understand what you are asking regarding Good/Evil, Full Power Fat Buu.


3) Well if you read my Majin Buu in depth thread, you will understand why I don't agree with your logic. If you want to go indepth let's keep it in the Majin Buu In Depth thread ok?

4) Regarding SSJ3 Goku/ Kid Buu. IMO, the full power thing to beat Buu is about a amplified ki attack. I don't think they meant a physical punch would beat Buu. That's a little more complicated. We might have to do that somewhere else.


5) Well my USSJ/USSJ2 multipliers are determined off of what was avaliable to me. Hell we have to start another thread on that as well. It's very in depth but I will give you the quick version. Here's where they come from....



A ) First and foremost the way to determine the USSJ/USSJ2 multiplier is to take what we have in the manga....


USSJ2 Goku > Initial Semi Cell > USSJ Goku > SSJ Goku > Base Goku

This is stated in the Rosat.

IMO SSJ Goku ( Rosat ) at the time he finds USSJ should equal SSJ Goku ( Androids ) while at full health who is a tiny bit weaker than SSJ Vegeta ( Androids ) was. Obviously you are probably going to voice an opinion on this but start a thread there's too much going on in here already.


B ) I wanted to make SSJ2 boost way superior to USSJ boost.

C) I don't find SSj2 to be a 2x multiplier because IMO it does not show


SSJ2s >>> Perfect Cell >>> SSJ to my liking. Then the whole MSSJ Gohan being able to kill SSJ2 Kid Gohan with a Kamehameha ( 2.2x boost ) it just doesn't fit my liking. Also, it would force Cell's Powered Up State to be 75-80% of his full power, which would be similar to Freeza's power up when he finally goes 100%. IMO Cell's powerup is implied to be much more devastating, and I feel Cell gotta a bigger boost than when Freeza went buff.

Also, on a sidenote, it effects my fusion boosts, which are halving multipliers in comparison to unfused saiyans. How can you half 2? This is a minor factor, but still played a small role as well.

[dbgtFO]

Thanks DBGTFO for taking time out of your day to go through my numbers. I appreciate your time.

No Problem

1) Like I said, can't really make up my mind on either side, so I try not to rate things I do not feel confident in.

I am a proponent of Present=Future, because Present>Future seems stupid IMO, since there are no explanations given.
Here's how I see it using my previous posted levels(where SSJ is 40*base, when you have controlled it, but a lower boost for Gohan(2*base), since he fought Trunks in base form):

First encounter
#17 = 280
#18 = 260
Gohan= 44,8
-SSJ = 89,6 - 32% of #17's full power
#17(using 40%) = 112 - less than half stretches from 40%-49% IMO. Using this power he is 1,25 times stronger than Gohan.

Training with Trunks
Trunks = 3
-SSJ = 120
-weakened = 60 - The special begins at this point in the battle.
Gohan = 70
-SSJ = 140 - surpasses #17's less than half power and is now at exactly ½ #17. Note Gohan claims he wish he was as strong, as his father.

Second encounter
#17 = 280
-Using 75% = 210 - enough to curbstomp Gohan. #17 is 1,5 times stronger than Gohan.

Trunks' turn
Trunks = 3,8
-SSJ = 152 - surpasses Gohan, but not to the point it will make any difference.
#17(using 65% of his power) = 182,4 - Trunks claims he can fight back against them, #17 is 1,2 times stronger than Trunks.

2) I don't think I understand what you are asking regarding Good/Evil, Full Power Fat Buu.
3) Well if you read my Majin Buu in depth thread, you will understand why I don't agree with your logic. If you want to go indepth let's keep it in the Majin Buu In Depth thread ok?

Ok I'll visit, that thread then.

4) Regarding SSJ3 Goku/ Kid Buu. IMO, the full power thing to beat Buu is about a amplified ki attack. I don't think they meant a physical punch would beat Buu. That's a little more complicated. We might have to do that somewhere else.

IMO ki blasts don't increase your PL, what Goku and Piccolo showed against Raditz was their full power(or close to it) concentrated into a blast.

5)
C) I don't find SSj2 to be a 2x multiplier because IMO it does not show
Also, it would force Cell's Powered Up State to be 75-80% of his full power, which would be similar to Freeza's power up when he finally goes 100%. IMO Cell's powerup is implied to be much more devastating, and I feel Cell gotta a bigger boost than when Freeza went buff.

In Dragonball a difference of 1,125 in power is enough to dominate a battle(Vegeta vs. 2*Kaioken Goku), so Cell only getting 1,25 times stronger(80%-100%) is enough to impress everybody.

[p123]

Your SSJ boost is too wild for me. I can't go there with you. That is way too far beyond me, so I don't want to waste your time on that. Trying to use your logic on that will literally cause my head to explode Lol. But there are plenty of topics to discuss...


Yes, Cell's ability to dominate is not the issue. I compare Freeza's power up to 100% and Cell's power up to 100%. IMO Cell's powerup is suggested to be more drastic than Freeza's. Using a 2x boost, Cell's boost is going to be roughly the same as Freeza's boost . Look at the difference when they power up. Cell gets like this super cool whole earth shaking changing of the skies thing.

Not to mention if SSJ2 is a small boost these characters are so squished it's redonko...


SSJ2 Kid Gohan/Spc/SSJ2 Goku Burst/SSJ2 Vegeta/SSJ2 Teen Gohan

not to mention

SSJ Gohan Post Zeta Sword/SSJ Goku/Majin Vegeta/SSJ Kid Gohan


I also felt that SPC zenkai was implied to be drastic. Using a 2x boost forces Cell's increase to 1.35x increase. Imo that's just not enough, I have the increase getting closer to nearly a 2x increase.

Also, I don't use the SEG as the Dragonball Bible. I believe all of the guides provide a valuable service in providing guidlines for us . But I do not believe in following their informtion strictly if it effects with spacing.

IMO Spacing > Guides. I take their hint that SSJ3 is a bigger boost than SSJ2, and keep that intact but the implications that I mentioned previously are simply not met with a 2x boost. The manga comes before the guides. So I adjust the guides to suit what my interpretation of the manga is.


For example, they say SSJ3 is a 4x boost. I try and try my best to make everything work accordingly to that 4x boost. Since this fits spacing wise+ implication wise, I am able to use this, as it works, and there's no reason to go against guides for no apparent reason.


SSJ2 , I try and try a 2x boost. I have tried about 5 different methods, and none of them are up to my standard. So I make slight adjustments to this.


I try my best not to, but when a situation doesn't meet my standard, I adjust minimally to make everything work.

[dbgtFO]

1) Always assume full power,unless told otherwise.

Android 19 110,000,000
Android 20 120,000,000
Goku 5,200,000
~SSJ 260,000,000
Vegeta 5,400,000
~SSJ 270,000,000

Then why is SSJ Goku at his full strength, when Piccolo confirms he should have been a lot stronger???
It should go like this: Android 19 < SSJ Sick Goku << SSJ Goku.

[p123]

Because I don't rate anything else except full power. As you can see Oozaru Vegeta is the full power of that form, even though he is suggested to have only gotten weaker creating the fake moon.


Trying to calculate dwindling battle powers is way beyond me. I try not to get involved in that or ki blast powers. I disagree with Piccolo's full power being 1330 and Goku's full power being 924 against Raditz. It's the whole reason it's ki amplification, for one blast. If Piccolo could fight at 1330 he would hurt Raditz with one punch. So it's amplfiying the user's ki for a particular move, it's not their actual fighting ki. A 1307 headbutt incapacitates Raditz so much that a 416 Goku is able to hold a 1220 Raditz. So as you can see if Piccolo's true fighting power was 1330, there would be no need for all the dramatics. Piccolo would go over there and whoop Raditz ass.


So yea, I only do full power. Easier for me that way. Although if I did do that particular scenario since we have been debating it, I would probably take this route.


Goku Healthy 260,000,000
Goku Sick 130,000,000 ( Initial, rapidly decreasing )
19 Post 110,000,000
19 Pre 55,000,000



Or something of that nature. That way we have

Sick Goku = 50% of Healthy Goku

19 Pre = 50% Of Sick Goku

19 Post = Sick Goku ~ 50% of Vegeta

So we keep the 50% kind of thing going on.