Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 16; Still Unreleased

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

Funi's DVDs tanslate Choushin sui as Super Sacred Water and Chousei sui as Super Spirit Water. By using Ultra divine water, they are not following even their own translated subtitles.

So? The dub rarely uses the same translations/spellings as the subtitles. For example, "Krillin" is used in the dub and "Kuririn" is used in the subtitles.

Of Choushin sui.

Incorrect.


超/Chō - Ultra/Super/Hyper

神/Shin - God/Godly/Divine

水/Sui - Water


I honestly don't know if could've made it any simpler.

I give Funi credit for something and you try to turn it to season 3 bashing.....

"Mondo Cool" was used in Season 3, was it not?

Considering there are at least 2 other translations coming from reputable sources, I wouldn't say ultra divine water is as accurate as them.

There exists more than one accurate translation for most words in Japanese. In fact, there exists more than one accurate translation for most words in every language. Basic linguistics, here.

However they won't be as accurate as using the original term.

It would. That's what his name literally means.


Okay, let's say I was translating a Spanish movie and the term "el hombre malo" came up. Are you saying that using the original term is more accurate than using a translation of it, "the evil man"? No, they both mean the same thing.

It would not fit the mouth flaps and it wouldn't sound as good as Spirit Cannon.

I admit it probably won't fit the mouth flaps, but I think "Spirit Cultivation Cannon" sounds less typical and more memorable.

I doubt those Anime have attacks anywhere near as good as the DB series. Spirit Cannon fits Tenshinhan's attack.

But it isn't an accurate translation of it.

If you ask a random English speaking child what "Kaioken" is, they might not know. It doesn't mean the dub shouldn't use Kaioken. Not too sure on the point you're trying to make here.

I'm trying to say that using translated terms sounds more natural to children (and general English-speakers aswell). I do understand that in some cases it's unreasonable to, due to mouth flaps and just plain common sense.

I'm saying that Blue Water approached their job in a more mature way than Funimation did.

And you work/have worked at either company.....?

(Or in other words, Blue Water's dub turned out more mature than Funi's dub) It's not only the original terms but dialogue and script wise Blue Water kept it closer to the original Japanese version than Funimation did.

But that doesn't neccessarily make it more "mature". FUNimation didn't dumb down and re-write the scripts, like they did with Z. It's still fairly accurate to the original.

At times I get the feeling Funimation think they have to spoon feed their audience and they are too reluctant to move away from some dub terms.

That was for continuity's sake. Same voice actors and same names.

[VegettoEX]

As fascinating as it is to watch a pissing contest, I've warned both of you about this before. Take your single-line back-and-forths elsewhere. If you can't have a legitimate discussion, this is not the message board for you.

[RazorX]

As fascinating as it is to watch a pissing contest, I've warned both of you about this before. Take your single-line back-and-forths elsewhere. If you can't have a legitimate discussion, this is not the message board for you.

K. At this point all I'm going to say is using a translation in a case where similar, better translations exist is not as accurate as using the original term.

You seem bent on pushing your translation as accurate when no other source has used it (when translating Choushin sui) so I'll highlight why Ultra divine water is not as accurate as using Choushin sui itself with an example.

We could get 5 or 6 synonyms of "Super" and "Sacred" to create 5-6 reasonably accurate translations of Choushin sui, get half a dozen people who stand behind a translation each, open a discussion thread and get them debating which translation is more accurate. It could go on for pages and may even include heated arguments, but at the end of the day, they would be as reasonably good a translation as each other. Whereas if we simply use Choushin sui, there's no discussion, it's about as accurate as you can get. Assuming Ultra divine water would be as accurate a translation as said translations, you could join the debate with our half dozen example group and still not get anywhere because their translations would not be any less accurate than yours.

Actually "divine" is a synonym of "super" so going by your translation, we could use "Ultra super water" or even "Super super water" and it wouldn't be any less accurate than "Ultra divine water."

By using Choushin sui, we avoid those play on words. That is why using Ultra divine water is not as accurate as using Choushin sui.

[VegettoEX]

Except that's not what "accurate" actually means (you're still arguing based on personal preference), so you may want to re-think your entire argument structure.

Furthermore, if you can't bring things back around on-topic, I genuinely will begin issuing warnings and bans.

[penguintruth]

Well, since we haven't received any news on any upcoming Ocean dub for Kai since Kirby Morrow mentioned it, there's really not a lot of use for this thread. It's just the same speculation and wishes over and over again.

[Kaboom]

So when there's multiple easy and accurate ways to translate something, the best and most admirable option is to... not translate it at all?

I don't get it.

[RazorX]

Except that's not what "accurate" actually means (you're still arguing based on personal preference), so you may want to re-think your entire argument structure.

Furthermore, if you can't bring things back around on-topic, I genuinely will begin issuing warnings and bans.

Well in this context, by accuracy I'm referring to being faithful to the original. Ultra divine water might or might not be as accurate a translation as Super Sacred Water, but it is not as true/faithful/accurate to the original as using Choushin sui.

And I would rather discuss the Ocean dub of Kai than debate whether Ultra divine water is as faithful to the original as Choushin sui but it seems it has taken a couple of posts to get my point across.

Well, since we haven't received any news on any upcoming Ocean dub for Kai since Kirby Morrow mentioned it,

If you're familiar with Ocean's more recent dubs, would you say they have anyone who might be as good, or better, than Kirby Morrow as Goku?

So when there's multiple easy and accurate ways to translate something, the best and most admirable option is to... not translate it at all?

In this case; yes. That's part of the point I was trying to make.

[penguintruth]

If you're familiar with Ocean's more recent dubs, would you say they have anyone who might be as good, or better, than Kirby Morrow as Goku?

I can't think of anyone in particular in the Ocean talent pool who'd be great as Goku, but I'm glad it won't be Kirby Morrow. As he said they said, he sounds too "cool". He's got this very collected sound to him that's utterly lacking in Goku's excitable, breezy nature. Morrow is an excellent voice actor, a much better one than Sean Schemmel or any other English VA who's had the role, but he's no Goku.

[RazorX]

If you're familiar with Ocean's more recent dubs, would you say they have anyone who might be as good, or better, than Kirby Morrow as Goku?

I can't think of anyone in particular in the Ocean talent pool who'd be great as Goku, but I'm glad it won't be Kirby Morrow. As he said they said, he sounds too "cool". He's got this very collected sound to him that's utterly lacking in Goku's excitable, breezy nature. Morrow is an excellent voice actor, a much better one than Sean Schemmel or any other English VA who's had the role, but he's no Goku.

Kirby does have this calm and collected sound to him but he can be menacing. A good example which comes to mind is Goku and Cell's confrontation after Goku emerges from the room of spirit and time. Goku says "You will pay for your crimes" Kirby genuinely made him sound menacing with a sense of anger creeping through. Taking and building on that, I think Kirby could've done a great job in the post SSJ Goku vs Freeza battle.

Kirby can make Goku sound excited (example; after Goku solves Tao's puzzle in the Cell Games) but he, like the other English VAs of Goku, cannot do it as well or does it as much as Masako Nozawa.

It's certainly possible that Ocean found someone who can emit Goku's excitable nature better than any of the previous English VAs for Goku. There's room for improvement in that respect.

[JulieYBM]

I keep having this image of Andrew Francis voicing adult Gokû in this dub. It sort of scares me, to be honest.

Honestly, as 'cool' as Morrow's Gokû was...it was such an improvement over Peter Kelamis' acting in the Artificial Human arc up until then. He played 'cool' confidently and smoothly, as opposed to the 'psuedo-Canadian Johny Wayne' Kelamis was doing.

[penguintruth]

Andrew Francis? I can't imagine the voice of Dilandau and Azreal being Goku.

I have no idea what happened to Kelamis in those later episodes. He was so great in the movies.

Maybe Vicent Tong, who played Matsuda in Death Note, could play Goku.

[El Diabeetus]

Andrew Francis? I can't imagine the voice of Dilandau and Azreal being Goku.

I have no idea what happened to Kelamis in those later episodes. He was so great in the movies.

Maybe Vicent Tong, who played Matsuda in Death Note, could play Goku.

I could definitely see where you going with that. Definitely a possible candidate for Goku.

[Attitudefan]

Andrew Francis? I can't imagine the voice of Dilandau and Azreal being Goku.

I have no idea what happened to Kelamis in those later episodes. He was so great in the movies.

It had to do with the direction and amount of time. You could say the same for the rest of the older cast too.

[dagame10k]

Given Goku's Character, and how important to the show it is, it is the most difficult character to cast, especially for an english dub. FUNimation struck at gold with Ian Corlett their first Goku casting, with his take on the character, he best understood the character with his very manchild voice which is the essence of the charater, while emoting seriously when the scenes called for it while at the same time was very childish, but unfortunately left due to back room problems. FUNimation was lucky when they got someone who somewhat sounded similar to Corlett, Perter Kelamis had his own take on the character, had a very ignorant take on the character, his screaming in one of the movies sounded close to a Masako Nozawa scream, but unfortunately he never sounded as good in the West Wood dub.

Kelamis left for his own reasons and Westwood replace him with Kirby Morrow who again had his own take on the character, but unfortunately wasn't as convincing as the chatacter as his predessors were. Morrow's voice acting lacked in quality, his screaming was horrible, and he never really emoted well, it was like he was over reaching for something he just couldn't do for the character, his voice just didn't work well for the character.

Having seen many Vancouver Anime dubs over the years, some new faced have popped up in recent dubs, I think a fresh face who has decided to audition for the role will get it, I think the casting directors will find right person that they think is suited for the character, Goku is THE character of the series, it's not a casting one can take lightly.

[Puto]

So when there's multiple easy and accurate ways to translate something, the best and most admirable option is to... not translate it at all?

In this case; yes. That's part of the point I was trying to make.

This reminds me of another "non-translation" I didn't like being kept in Japanese... One Piece "nakama" in fansubs.

[JulieYBM]

So when there's multiple easy and accurate ways to translate something, the best and most admirable option is to... not translate it at all?

In this case; yes. That's part of the point I was trying to make.

This reminds me of another "non-translation" I didn't like being kept in Japanese... One Piece "nakama" in fansubs.

Not really. 'Nakama' isn't a proper noun, it's a common word. 'Chôshinsui' is the name of the water and plays the role of a special item like the Nyoi'bô does.

[Garlic]

In all honesty I don`t an ocean dub of kai will happen because of the licsence being owned by funimation and not ocean.

[Daimo-Rukiri]

maybe not for Canada but there's still Europe.

[Dark Vegeta-Sama]

In all honesty I don`t an ocean dub of kai will happen because of the licsence being owned by funimation and not ocean.

maybe not for Canada but there's still Europe.

The Ocean dub of Dragonball Z aired in Canada despite FUNimation's hold of the Canadian distribution rights. Given that no Canadian TV station has picked up FUNimation's Dragonball Kai yet (even though it's readily available) there's no reason why one of them couldn't pick up the Ocean dub of Kai.

Plus, the Ocean dub will likely be cheaper to purchase than FUNi's dub, and would also count towards the silly "cancon" law, which is an added bonus for Canadian stations. Seems like a no-brainer.

[RazorX]

I keep having this image of Andrew Francis voicing adult Gokû in this dub. It sort of scares me, to be honest.

Honestly, as 'cool' as Morrow's Gokû was...it was such an improvement over Peter Kelamis' acting in the Artificial Human arc up until then. He played 'cool' confidently and smoothly, as opposed to the 'psuedo-Canadian Johny Wayne' Kelamis was doing.

The voice of adult Dende for Goku

I'd be happy if Andrew Francis returns to voice adult Dende but I don't think he's the best candidate for Goku.