Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[uzuni]

I was joking as well. Now regarding your list you made above for the Boo saga. Could you explain to me which Boo is which in your list? (Majin Boo Evil, Majin Boo Pure, etc.)

[Senzu_Bean]

I used the names from Daizenshuu. Basically:

Majin Buu Innocent = Fat Buu

Majin Buu Pure = Kid Buu

Majin Buu Evil = Super Buu

[uzuni]

Majin Buu arc

Vegetto Super Saiyan
>>> Majin Buu Evil Merged w/Gohan, Piccolo, Trunks & Goten
> Majin Buu Evil Merged w/Gotenks & Piccolo
>>> Majin Buu Pure Powered-weight
> Gohan The Mightiest Warrior
>> Majin Buu Evil Merged w/Piccolo & Gotenks
> Gotenks Super Saiyan 3
= Majin Buu Evil
>> Goku Super Saiyan 3
> Majin Buu Pure
>> Gotenks Super Saiyan
= Majin Buu Innocent
>> Vegeta Majin Super Saiyan 2
= Goku Super Saiyan 2
> Vegeta Super Saiyan 2
> Dabura
> Gohan Super Saiyan 2
>> East Kaioshin
>> Goku Super Saiyan
> Vegeta Super Saiyan
> Gohan Super Saiyan
>> Piccolo
> Trunks Super Saiyan
> Goten Super Saiyan

And where would you fit Fat Boo from the first time he was encountered up to when he fought with SSJ3 Goku, as well as Thin Boo in this list?

[Senzu_Bean]

I think Wrath Buu is around Super Saiyans 2, since he got the majority of Buu's power and we know Super Saiyan 2 Gohan is slightly less than Innocent Buu's power.

About Innocent Buu I believe when he first appeared is suppressed at a level below Dabura, since this implies he can beat him and Gohan believes he too can beat him if he bring all his power, just like against Dabura. After that and powering-up against Dabura I don't recall he ever shows any other increase.

And he did infact fight all out against Goku. However I can't say the same for the latter.

[p123]

@ Uzuniz

exactly why I have Freeza at 144 million and Goku at 150 million. An 80% difference is far too much. And I don't believe in the partial ki restoration theory. I think Daiz got Raditz/ Saibamen 1500/1200 wrong the same as Freeza/Goku 120/150 wrong. The spacing is just too big IMO. Rivals as both of these examples would be, should be a lot closer.



@ Senzu Bean


Gohan thinks he can if he brings all of his power. IMO he is referring to his SSJ2 power. Seeing as he likely just did a Full Powered Blast against Buu, SSJ will just not be enough. Dabura can't sense ki, I think his confidence derives from Buu's stupidity more than anything. I think Initial Buu is perhaps Perfect Cell range or so.

Buu powers up twice. Once against Dabura and once against Majin Vegeta.

[Senzu_Bean]

As you can see by the list I posted above I think Dabura is SSJ2-tier and Gohan SSJ2 against him. Don't ask me why is that cause such subject has been discussed to death.

[p123]

Ah another one of those ridicolous ideas of yours. Lol jk. But I really don't see how one comment warrants all of these unneccessary adjustments.


Since when did Gohan train to be able to transform of free will? Why does Gohan mention Vegeta/Goku fighting at a level above SSJ as if he and Dabura are not on that level.

Also Gohan's damage only fills up Buu's meter a hair or two, surely a SSJ2 even with limited damage would fill it up more than that.

[Senzu_Bean]

Ah another one of those ridicolous ideas of yours.

Thank you very much.

[p123]

Lol your welcome. Gohan needs rage to transform into SSJ2. Glad to be of some assistance. Now that we got that all cleared up... Lol.

[Senzu_Bean]

Lol your welcome. Gohan needs rage to transform into SSJ2. Glad to be of some assistance. Now that we got that all cleared up... Lol.

I was being sarcastic. Obviously Gohan can transform into Super Saiyan 2 at will since he did at the tournament.

[p123]

I know my friend... I am simply baiting you into discussing this. Got some differing POVs to try out...


Vegeta and Goku both agree that Dabura is nothing to them. Do you seriously think PC would be a joke by this point? Sure they would be stronger, but they would need SSJ2 to do that, it's no laughing matter. Not to mention Goku agrees with Vegeta saying that Dabura is nothing. Yet... Dun Dun DUn! Vegeta wasn't sure if Goku had SSJ2 at this point. The burst occurs after this conversation ( I believe, yikes! ) . Now if SSJ2 was required to beat Dabura, which indeed it is needed to beat Cell, why the hell would Vegeta not know Goku had SSJ2 prior? It doesn't make sense. Goku is talking about MSSJ as the level as we are on.



Oh yea dude, Gohan used a delayed anger catalyst to turn SSj2 against Kibito.

[uzuni]

Here are my BP's for the Boo Arc:

25th Tenka'ichi Budokai

Goten: 4,000,000
Trunks: 4,100,000
SSJ Gotenks: 200,000,000
SSJ Trunks: 205,000,000
Kuririn: 100,000
Piccolo: 1,000,000,000
Kaioshin: 2,000,000,000
Gohan: 40,000,000
SSJ Gohan: 2,000,000,000
SSJ2 Gohan: 4,000,000,000
Kibito: 38,000,000
#18: 280,000,000

Bobbidi

Vegeta: 45,000,000
Pui Pui: 10,000
Goku: 60,000,000
Yakon: 800,000,000
SSJ Goku: 3,000,000,000
Dabra: 4,000,000,000
SSJ2 Gohan: 4,000,000,000
Kaioshin: 2,000,000,000
Majin Vegeta: 6,000,000,000
SSJ2 Goku: 6,000,000,000
Boo (suppressed): 3,500,000,000
Boo: 7,000,000,000

Boo

Boo (powered up): 21,000,000,000
Goku: 60,000,000
SSJ Goku: 3,000,000,000
SSJ2 Goku: 6,000,000,000
SSJ3 Goku: 24,000,000,000
Gotenks: 40,000,000
Wrath Boo: 13,000,000,000
Good Boo: 8,000,000,000
Evil Boo: 32,000,000,000

Fusion

Evil Boo: 32,000,000,000
Goten: 8,000,000
Trunks: 8,000,000
Gotenks: 80,000,000
SSJ Gotenks: 4,000,000,000
SSJ2 Gotenks: 8,000,000,000
SSJ3 Gotenks: 32,000,000,000
Piccolo: 1,000,000,000
Gohan (powered up from Elder Kaioshin): 50,000,000,000 (10x power from when he fought Cell)
Evil Boo (after absorbing Gotenks and Piccolo): 65,000,000,000
Evil Boo (after Gotenks' fusion wore off): 33,000,000,000
Goku: 60,000,000
Tenshinhan: 500,000
Evil Boo (after absorbing Gohan): 83,000,000,000
SSJ3 Goku: 24,000,000,000
Vegeta: 45,000,000
Vegerot: 1,050,000,000
SSJ Vegerot: 105,000,000,000

Original Boo

SSJ3 Goku: 24,000,000,000
Original Boo: 21,000,000,000
SSJ2 Vegeta: 4,500,000,000
Good Boo: 8,000,000,000

[p123]

You are definitley using the guides pretty strictly. But they are flawed, and need to be improved upon at least regarding power levels.

It's better if you use your percentile chart coupled with an A>B chart. You would have a much better chart, forget the Daiz and forget SEG/ forget VJUMp in regards strictly to power levels. Use them as a basis, but not strictly. They did not perfect their system at all.

Let me see your A> B chart first. Do the Buu Saga first.


Also the AxB fusion mutliplier is terrible.


Roshi fused with another Roshi > Saiyan Saga Vegeta


If you can endorse this as realistic , then we don't have to discuss fusion anymore.

[uzuni]

You are definitley using the guides pretty strictly. But they are flawed, and need to be improved upon at least regarding power levels.

It's better if you use your percentile chart coupled with an A>B chart. You would have a much better chart, forget the Daiz and forget SEG/ forget VJUMp in regards strictly to power levels. Use them as a basis, but not strictly. They did not perfect their system at all.

Let me see your A> B chart first. Do the Buu Saga first.


Also the AxB fusion mutliplier is terrible.


Roshi fused with another Roshi > Saiyan Saga Vegeta


If you can endorse this as realistic , then we don't have to discuss fusion anymore.

You know, now that you mention it...that doesn't seem that far off...

And about the percentile chart, I think that would be pretty useless in this case, as most of the fights didn't really drag on long enough to really see a difference in power

[p123]

You directly contradict the manga many times though. Make the chart first, and piece it together slowly. Sometimes you have to work in reverse. Piece by piece things will start to fit... The guides should not be your GOD! Power level wise they are on a noobish level , there is no way the creators of their levels spent a quarter of the time a high level forum fanboy power level guy does. They are flat out inferior in the power level department, do not let them take the lead in your judgement!

Also you flat out let multipliers dictate your logic. Your logic should dictate the multiplier. I mean you got Yakon over 10 x stronger than Base Goku which is ridicolous. Cmon man, you got that great percentile list, you are better than this, much better!

[Senzu_Bean]

Also the AxB fusion mutliplier is terrible.

Why?!

[p123]

Roshi/Roshi Fusion = 19,321 > Saiyan Saga Vegeta


If you think Roshi with his 139 power level, would only have to fuse with a clone of himself and be stronger than Saiyan Saga Vegeta, I don't know what to say...


Raditz/Saibamen = 1,464,000

Raditz and the Saibamen fusion stronger than Freeza's 2nd form.


Nappa/Goku(over8k) = 64,480,000


Nappa/Goku a little stronger than Kaoiken x20 Goku ( Freeza Saga )


Goku(90k)/Ginyu Fusion = 10,800,000,000


Goku/Ginyu on a Perfect Cell Full Power level




Now if you can swallow this, then I don't have much to argue with you about. But to me, this is wildly ridicolous and inaccurate. Fusion is a huge boost sure, but to these measures is just lazyness by the Daiz more than anything.

[Senzu_Bean]

... but to these measures is just lazyness by the Daiz more than anything.

That isn't from Daizenshuu, but Super Exciting Guide: Story Volume.

[p123]

Ah yes thank you. Yea this is more about SEG probably just implying that fusion is a multiplication more than actually AxB. They truly did not put the effort in to see what would happen if that were actually true.

That's the only thing I don't like with these guides, they don't put a quarter of the time/effort that your average fanboy puts in. They just make an inferior product , it's a shame really.

They are of great use for everything non power level wise, but they certainly are no experts power level wise. Although they do get it in the general right place more times than not, you can tell by their results, they simply didn't care or put enough effort in. A supbar effort to say the least.

[dbgtFO]

... but to these measures is just lazyness by the Daiz more than anything.

That isn't from Daizenshuu, but Super Exciting Guide: Story Volume.

True.
And uzuni I wonder why you didn't include "Kibitoshin"
The AxB is not meant literally it's simply:

A + B <<< AB

I believe it was stated, as being closer to multiplication, than it is to addition.