How Would You Improve GT? 2.0

[sumpter360]

Pan whines WAY too much. It's pretty ridiculous. I know it's because she's young and naive and such, but come on. So was Gohan in Z, but he at least got training from Piccolo and got most of the crybaby smacked out of him. Maybe that's what Pan needed, someone to train her and teach her how to not suck

Seriously though, her character was just iritating and pretty much my only gripe of GT.

[SonEric84]

I would have liked to see more of the other characters in action and actually being of use. So I suppose I would allow more screen time for characters who aren't Goku or Saiyan (of course this could apply to Z, too.) AND fix the inconsistencies of the Super 17 Arc..though I do enjoy the team of #18 and Goku.

[Chuquita]

I missed adult Goku so badly. I'd want Goku wished back to his adult form by the end of the Bebi arc.
That image of grown-up base form Goku with his nyoi-bo, gi, and tail at the end of ED 4 is such a tease because that situation never actually happens in the series.

Put Vegeta on the spaceship with Goku, Trunks, and Pan. He's got much more experience in outer space than anyone else in the main cast. He can provide info, exposition on different planets, and it would make the Para Para episode way more amusing.


Lots and lots of GT character design/haircut/clothing retooling. I'm looking at you, Vegeta-with-a-moostache-and-bad-haircut, Bulma's orange dress, Goten's hair, Trunks's outfit, possibly Pan's outfit (maybe give her a gi that's a kind of combination of the kame style and Mark's dark maroon uniform?).

I'd also like to see Pan and Bura reach ssj. (Though I have a feeling that Bura probably can already go ssj, but just isn't in the show enough to actually do any real fighting.)


Oh! And adult Gotenks! I'd like to see him.


EDIT: The evil dragons in the final arc; I'd like them to be more threatening, I felt there were too many gag-manga-type dragons for a final arc. Have them all be dangerous, but they don't all have to be physically so. You could have one that tries to destroy the characters using psychic powers or has some mental or emotion-altering thing to try and set them against one another.

The final evil dragon would probably be similar to the one GT does use; a physically strong guy.

[Cipher]

Are we free to discuss other people's suggestions? Because I think I actually disagree with a fair number of these. Respectfully, of course.

I missed adult Goku so badly. I'd want Goku wished back to his adult form by the end of the Bebi arc.
That image of grown-up base form Goku with his nyoi-bo, gi, and tail at the end of ED 4 is such a tease because that situation never actually happens in the series.

Goku returning to his child form was actually one of the more inspired choices in GT, in my opinion. He's certainly a more entertaining character that way. And while giving him an "adult" body for Super Saiyan 4 feels like a cop-out, I can't say I want to see him return to normal.

Plus, child Goku gives us that beautiful moment at the end of the series, where middle-aged Kuririn comments on how Goku and Kame-Sennin haven't changed at all. That's a great, great scene to end on, and no one ever seems to give it its dues.

Put Vegeta on the spaceship with Goku, Trunks, and Pan. He's got much more experience in outer space than anyone else in the main cast. He can provide info, exposition on different planets, and it would make the Para Para episode way more amusing.

I'm kind of undecided on this. On the one hand, I think Goku, Trunks and Pan have a pretty good dynamic, and I'm all for the less experienced characters traveling into space. On the other hand, Vegeta in all the ridiculous scenarios could potentially be hilarious, and not touching upon the remnants of Freeza's empire is one of my greater misgivings with the space arc. So mark that down as a suggestion.

Lots and lots of GT character design/haircut/clothing retooling. I'm looking at you, Vegeta-with-a-moostache-and-bad-haircut, Bulma's orange dress, Goten's hair, Trunks's outfit, possibly Pan's outfit (maybe give her a gi that's a kind of combination of the kame style and Mark's dark maroon uniform?).

The outfits are one of the best parts of GT. They're pretty much in line with what we saw at the end of the manga/Z. The characters have gotten old and frumpy. Vegeta's attempt at Earth fashion is hilarious, and everything is amazingly '90s to boot.

I'd also like to see Pan and Bura reach ssj. (Though I have a feeling that Bura probably can already go ssj, but just isn't in the show enough to actually do any real fighting.)

Actually, agreed. I actually hate to add to the huge roster of Super Saiyans already, but since its kind of glaring that the girls can't do it too, and it seems to be the only practical way to be useful in a fight, they might as well.

Oh! And adult Gotenks! I'd like to see him.

Again, no arguments. This would probably have been more entertaining than useful, but it would have at least been a good gag.

EDIT: The evil dragons in the final arc; I'd like them to be more threatening, I felt there were too many gag-manga-type dragons for a final arc. Have them all be dangerous, but they don't all have to be physically so. You could have one that tries to destroy the characters using psychic powers or has some mental or emotion-altering thing to try and set them against one another.

Again, I highly disagree. It feels natural that some of the villains in GT should be kind of underwhelming for the heroes by this point. I don't think two or three dragons being played for gags is egregious. It keeps in tone with the series.

Now, dividing the dragons among the main cast would have been neat. I'm not too upset by the way the arc plays out as is, but that seems like it should have been a no-brainer.

[Godo]

I really liked the beginning of DBGT, with all the space stuff going on. Give me more space battles and I'm in!
I don't care about Goku being a kid, or Trunks joining along. Get rid of Pan in the least and add, let's say, Uub or Bulma and it would be better.
Sure it would be nice for Gohan to not have lost his ultimate form, but in that case, I guess he would play too much of a great role against the enemies.
Make it into a space anime. Space all the way!

[T Pac]

The core problem with GT is simply that the writing is not very good, at all.

I actually like a few of the general plot outlines-- even though it wasn't in the manga, the entire Tsufuru story isn't bad, and the idea that they'd be out for revenge is pretty good. And I really liked the idea of the negative energy from overusing the Dragonballs. But the execution was just totally lacking.

As far as specifics where improvements could be made, it's mostly just the usual stuff. Not a fan of Kid Goku, and hate that he's the only one (along with, to a lesser extent, Vegeta) who's worth anything.

Not a fan of what they did with most of the characters, in terms of personality, either. I feel like Trunks was primarily modeled after Mirai Trunks. Would have been a lot better to see the contrast in personalities considering their entirely different upbringings. A lot of the secondary characters seemed overly one-dimensional, but part of that was just from the extremely limited roles they had.

[Turtle Marked Stone]

Put effort into writing the Super 17 arc. Other than that I have no issues.

[Deimos]

A) Delaying the SSJ4's arrival. This form made every other character (besides Goku) irrelevant at such an early point of the series.
B) More SSJ3 Goku and Gotenks. More entertaining fights and helps the anticipation of the SSJ4 when SSJ3 becomes truly obsolete.
C) FPSSJ2 for Vegeta. Have Vegeta attain this to at least compete with SSJ3. We all know of SSJ3's power capabilities, but it is very unstable and consumes a tremendous amount of ki. FPSSJ2 can be Vegeta's answer to a more stable Super Saiyan transformation. This can also help Vegeta stay more relevant. Plus, it would be unique to Vegeta (which is unheard of)
D) Adult Goku return. Having Goku stay in child form got very stale after a while.
E) Have Vegeta, Gotenks, Oob, etc. take out a few villians. Goku needs to share the glory.

There are more things, but I'd be writing here all night. The story needed some major adjustments.

[painfuldeath]

I can safely say I did not enjoy GT at all. My main issue is how they treated all non Goku characters.
- Nobody aside from Goku has any real advancement in power. Sure Vegeta gained SS4 but it was nearly worthless at this stage.
- Everybody else was pretty much useless in a fight even though we all know how powerful they were by the end of Z.
- No mystic Gohan (he was (one of) the strongest character(s) at the end of Z and he is pretty much ignored).
- No Gotenks
- I don't recall a single funny gag for something that was supposed to be funny.
- Enormous missed opportunity with Pan; she could have been MUCH more
- Pacing (there is none in GT)

All in all, in order to improve GT the story would have to be rewritten. There is nothing wrong with the plot outline, it just could have been much better. For example: While Pan, Trunks and Goku are in space Bebi strikes Earth and the former Z fighters have to fight him. That would have been much more sensible.

I could go off about this but it unfortunately will not happen, so it's pointless.

[Attitudefan]

Never having the series in the first place.
Also, Goku shouldn't be that wierd tan colour, he should be "pinkish" like everybody else in the show.
NO MORE SSJ!
Get rid of the huge chins!

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Never having the series in the first place.
Also, Goku shouldn't be that wierd tan colour, he should be "pinkish" like everybody else in the show.
NO MORE SSJ!
Get rid of the huge chins!

This is one thing GT actually got right IMO. A lot of Toriyama's artwork has Goku much more tan than the rest of the cast, even as far back as the original Dragon Ball series. Why the animators made him practically the exact same shade as everyone else in the first two series is beyond me.

[Ussj Future Trunks]

Everyone in Gt is a lot more useful than everyone thinks.
Trunks - the main brains in the black star saga and often manages to at least hold off the villain. Destroys escaped villains, lends an assist in the killing of a few others. Character development, seems kinda wimpy in the first episodes but grows hardened and less weak as he's constantly in battle. No need for training. Hands on is the best kind.
Goten - First to encounter and beat up Baby, gives Goku energy and fights alongside Trunks. Destroys escaped villains.
Gohan - Takes on Rildo without suffering much damage and assists in power giving.
Majuub - Gets a huge powerup and saves Goku when he distracts Baby and also Omega. One shots dead Rildo. As Uub he was the only one to fight Base Adult Goku and gave him a run for his money. Creates new moves like Candy Kamehameha. And as for his potential, well he's doomed to be in the shadow of the Saiyans. No fanboy is gonna like it when some random kid takes their "beloved" Goku's place. No fanboy is gonna like it if they start favouring him over the Saiyans.
Pan - Helps kill Rildo and some of the Dragons. One of the characters to get development. She is clearly far less annoying from Babys arrival on Earth to the very end. Her days of cussing out her elders and acting like a mini Vegeta are done once things got serious for the universe. By the end, she's a mature heroic young woman who trained Goku Jr Roshi-Style. One of the main complaints is that she wasn't a SSJ and considered weak. Well no SHIT! She obviously had the same lack of passion for being stronger and hung around Mr Satan a lot. And IMO there was no way she would turn SSJ. DBZ is kinda majorly sexist and Pan hasn't exactly trained, nor gotten enough anger. To have her be OMG ultra strong is to miss the point entirely. And i never saw the end of Z as setting up something there. She was just another Saiyan then. And I didn't really care about her "potential". Every Saiyan's potential is essentially equal. They are all limitless as long as they train. And having some muscled tomboy running around making ears bleed with a girl actress trying to act tough is worse than what we got. I can easily see people screaming Mary Sue if Pan had the spotlight.
Vegeta - more character development. Finally completes his arc from ruthless arrogant killer to noble hero and defender of Earth. Not to mention the strongest being alive (Imo Goku isn't really alive nor dead once he becomes fused with Shenron) as he always said he was. Creates new moves like Final Shine.
Even Giru was important, perhaps the most so in the first saga, which was way more about Trunks Pan and Giru than Goku. His friendship with Pan is something we haven't seen in a long time. You forget about relationships when there's battles.
Goku Jr and Vegeta Jr - Try not to think on it too hard. IMO its just rule of cool to see little goku and little vegeta fighting each other. GT didn't have to have nerds ripping apart every plot hole since it never took itself seriously anyway. It's like insulting the cartoon logic of Disney Characters having to notice the lack of gravity before actually falling.

Like I said, in Z, it was really only Goku and (to a MUCH lesser extent) Gohan who did anything. Sure Trunks offed Frieza and King Cold but so what? Goku in fact DID exactly that in Trunks's timeline. What else did he do? Warn Goku then....Not much at all.
Vegeta kills the minor henchmen and 19. So?
Goku: Even Piccolo could have done that
Vegeta: FUCK YOU!

Remember Goku sharing the glory is specific to pretty much only Cell Saga. DB? Goku does everything. Saiyan Saga? Everyone gets their ass kicked by Nappa and Goku saves them. Its the opposite in the final battle with Vegeta but its a rare occurance in most of DB. Namek? More "We're so useless, hurry and come to save us Goku!" Then Goku widens the gap by going SSJ. Granted he's barely in Android Saga but no one but Cell actually accomplishes anything in dealing with the Androids. Buu? More miraculous Goku being back from the dead and everyone pinning their hopes on him, which he apparently is sick of and leaves the fate of the universe in the hands of two 7 year olds. Of course it backfires and he has to come back again and save the day...of course it does.

The movies? Ultimate Goku fanwank for the most part. Only Gohan can do anything besides him but both times where he's the star, Goku STILL transcends death to save his poor son's ass. Only Bio Broly doesn't have him randomly saving the day.

Now in GT, although he's always the one to deal the final blow, he almost always gets his ass kicked and needs his friends to come save HIM.
Rildo - It was a combined Trunks/Pan/Goku kamehameha in the end.
Baby - Needs Pan and Old Kai to make him SSJ4 then still needs Majuub to attack from the inside and the others to power him up.
Super 17 - needs 18 and the good 17 to help.
Dragons - only time he actually does in some villains alone without getting his shit rocked apart from Syn and Eis. Nova, Vegeta and the others all helped with Syn/Omega. Even needed energy from the ENTIRE UNIVERSE.

No mystic Gohan (he was (one of) the strongest character(s) at the end of Z and he is pretty much ignored

Gohan in general was ignored except for the villains he killed/helped kill in Z. His Mystic form only beat up Buu, then got shat upon needlessly. At least GT Gohan stays in character and doesnt get cocky for no reason nor drop earrings. And it was destiny for him to fall behind again since Gohan doesnt like fighting. He lets himself be beaten by his bro because he won't kill Goten. That's not liking fighting.

The only things I'd change is fix the plotholes and power level contradictions. Then it would be a very nice continuation. Akira himself said Goku's the most suited to being the hero. Gohan or Uub would have been kinda weak. Goku IS db. He's the most popular and the generally strongest. It's not really DB to me without him. And I have no problems with small Goku. It's more like his personality anyway. The only real change was his height. Who cares about his height?

[painfuldeath]

The only things I'd change is fix the plotholes and power level contradictions. Then it would be a very nice continuation. Akira himself said Goku's the most suited to being the hero. Gohan or Uub would have been kinda weak. Goku IS db. He's the most popular and the generally strongest. It's not really DB to me without him. And I have no problems with small Goku. It's more like his personality anyway. The only real change was his height. Who cares about his height?

Here's where I would disagree with you. In the original DragonBall there is no discussion, Goku IS the hero and he fits that role superbly. Once you get into Z however, things start getting a little fuzzy about who is the real hero. The story does not revolve around Goku like it did before as often times Goku is not even there when the "crap hits the fan".

I agree that Uub and Gohan wouldn't be suited as heroes at this point. Toriyama missed the chance to make Gohan the ultimate hero at the end of the Cell saga, perhaps because he would be way too much of a hero. That said however, the way GT handles other main characters of Z is such a waste of a potentially superb continuation.

[Attitudefan]

This is one thing GT actually got right IMO. A lot of Toriyama's artwork has Goku much more tan than the rest of the cast, even as far back as the original Dragon Ball series. Why the animators made him practically the exact same shade as everyone else in the first two series is beyond me.

BAH! He looks like he was in a poop bath(yay for immature comment!) I will always see him as the lighter Goku than this weird tan colour, it really stands out compared to (Vegeta) or everybody else

[Ussj Future Trunks]

Well Toriyama designed GT Goku...
And if you think Goten Trunks and Gohan were wasted, well...they don't like to fight and so wouldn't train! Like I said, only Cell Saga had others taking over while Goku was with the virus/training/dead. But they were still all like "If only Goku were here". Even if Goku stepped down, both his fanboys and the characters themselves would whine about him not being there.

[Hellspawn28]

Also, Goku shouldn't be that wierd tan colour

I'm pretty sure that has to do with the animation itself since GT came out 10 years after the original DB anime came out back in '86. The one thing I did not like about GT was that the color scheme in the series look pretty bad sometimes.

[p123]

Oi, this is going to be a long list. You guys had some great ideas, so I will try my best not to repeat any.....


1) Super Saiyan Level 3 Vegeta
Yea it got the special, level 3 attention. Lol. We need to see this. Cmon man. Also, allow Vegeta to develop as a character. He can fit into the Piccolo role as Goku's main advisor quite easily. Tone down the competitiveness, Vegeta has accepted Goku as his leader at the end of the Buu Saga. Let that ride. Let's try to make Vegeta a good guy by now, man it's so many years later. Everyone likes Vegeta, no one likes when he's a jerk. Let him be his badass self but as a generally cool humbled guy now. Oh yea, let him beat a villian or two godamnit! I want to see Vegeta included in the Uub training or something. Let Vegeta play the real #2 to Goku , more character development please!


2) Uub!

This is Uub's show! Let him shine man. He is the future, at least give him a whole saga worth of stuff. Stick him on the universal journey, we need character development here too. Majuub is a possibility, I can see how that could really add to it. Perhaps a situation where SOuth/Dai reeappear when Buu and Uub reemerge allowing the Kaioshins to all merge eventually and make a badass looking Kai, plus a powerful god as he rightfully should be. That could get really interesting.


3) Chou Gohan is damn Chou Gohan. Don't short the man. Let him retain his power, work around his power. No one wants him as the main character I know, but allow a lot of battles to take place elsewhere, on other planets . Then, when a villian comes along taking out Chou Gohan would be a major feat. They took out Gohan what can we do? Enter SSJ4.


4 ) Kill Pan. Self explanatory.


5) No Super 17. It's stupid. Cell is so much better than him. Eff Super 17, although he looks cool as shit. General Rilldo is a bad ass character, he can be a whole freaking planet and is super strong. This guy is good. Dragons aren't bad, but with a little more enthusiasm.

[kaialone]

Also, Goku shouldn't be that wierd tan colour, he should be "pinkish" like everybody else in the show.

I always thought he got a tan because he trained with Oob in Oob´s home country.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Oi, this is going to be a long list. You guys had some great ideas, so I will try my best not to repeat any.....

1) Super Saiyan Level 3 Vegeta

2) Uub!

3) Chou Gohan is damn Chou Gohan.

4 ) Kill Pan. Self explanatory.

5) No Super 17. It's stupid. Cell is so much better than him. Eff Super 17, although he looks cool as shit. General Rilldo is a bad ass character, he can be a whole freaking planet and is super strong. This guy is good. Dragons aren't bad, but with a little more enthusiasm.

1). Perhaps you need to read the Kanzenban ending... lol The manga itself has two canons because of these different endings, but the anime had no choice but to use the original ending as the lead in for GT. The second ending in the Kanzenban fully makes it seem like even though Vegeta accepts Goku being better than him, that doesn't mean he is going to stop trying to surpass him so he can finally beat his face in for his past humiliations. Works perfectly for GT. xD

5. I have to disagree, Super 17 could be a great character, it is just that everything about him and his arc was done wrong by the Toei staff. Even using the same design and the same personality, if you rework his origin and then make the fight play out logically, the arc could have been awesome. But any time you have high hopes from Toei, you can generally expect to be disappointed. lol

The rest I mostly agree with, maybe not the ideas of what to do with them, but the fundamentals yes...except Pan, no need to kill her, she just needs a MAJOR attitude adjustment. I know what Toei was going for with her, but it was a miss, and a major one at that.

[Savage68]

Chou Gohan is damn Chou Gohan.

'Chou' Gohan is actually Ultimate Gohan.