Disproving the 120 number

[Nazi Cola]

So what exactly all disproves the Daizenshuu's 120,000,000 level for 100% Freeza?

[Kaboom]

Nothing.

Thread over.

[Fox666]

To begin with, the word "disproves" itself puts that as an (almost) impossible feat

[Tyro]

It depends how heavily you believe in the "differences" idea still going around. If you think that the Vegeta vs. Zarbon fight proves that fights between people with approx. a 10% difference in battle power can mean one fighter owns the other, then obviously a 25% difference in power would be that much more ownage, give or take a few elements of the fight.

[Kaboom]

There's far more that goes into a fight than simple comparisons of power. Any such "rules" of comparison are purely fan-made and don't exist in any official context. So no, there is nothing to "disprove" the Goku-Freeza comparison.

[Tyro]

Hence the first sentence.

If he does believe in such a system, hey, there's your proof. If not, then he keeps looking. Personally, I'm part of the former group, but like all things, this "system" should be taken with a grain of salt. Like I said previously, "give or take a few elements of the fight."

[Deimos]

I had thought for years that Freeza was 12,000,000. I still think the 120,000,000 figure seems a tad ridiculous. The increase appears to be way too large. Especially when it is compared to previous transformations.

530,000 (Form 1) to 1,000,000 (Form 2) to ??? (Form 3) to 40,000,000-120,000,000 (Form 4 33%-100%).

The 40x-120x difference between Form 2 and 4 just doesn't sit well with me. 4,000,000-12,000,000 seems to be a more reasonable figure.

That's just me though.

[Senzu_Bean]

It is impossible for Freeza be at 12,000,000 though. 120,000,000 is indeed ridiculous compared to previous battle powers but since it is the last, along with Super Saiyan Goku, I guess it makes sense for them to be that higher.

[Kaboom]

The 40x-120x difference between Form 2 and 4 just doesn't sit well with me. 4,000,000-12,000,000 seems to be a more reasonable figure.
That's just me though.

Trust me, if it were me writing the series, I'd make it something like that as well.

But somebody already beat me to it, so I guess that's just how it is.

[dbgtFO]

There's far more that goes into a fight than simple comparisons of power. Any such "rules" of comparison are purely fan-made and don't exist in any official context. So no, there is nothing to "disprove" the Goku-Freeza comparison.

True. The only thing, that might imply, that you need a certain difference in power is Ginyu estimating Goku at 60.000 for being able to beat his men, that easily. But the rest of the Ginyu Force don't have an official value, so we don't know the difference required.

[Kaboom]

Yeah. But even then, Ginyu could be taking other things into account. Like the element of surprise (i.e. the crew might be unprepared to deal with someone stronger than them), their individual strengths and weaknesses, Saiyan toughness/resilience, or what have you.

[Rocketman]

Kaioken is the only thing propping up that massive number for Freeza. I tried my damnedest to force the power levels down for Kaboom's thread and the lowest I got was 100% Freeza at 40,000,000, solely because Goku multiplies his strength by 20 and it isn't enough.

[Deimos]

The power levels I saw for Goku and Freeza in the past were something like this:

Goku: 300,000
Kaioken x10: 3,000,000
Kaioken x20: 6,000,000
Super Saiyan (x50) Goku: 15,000,000

Freeza Form 1: 530,000
Freeza Form 2: 1,000,000 (about x2 his first form)
Freeza Form 3: 3,000,000 (x3 his second form)
Freeza Form 4 (100%): 12,000,000 (x4 his third form)

I can see that Base Goku seems a tad weak. But a boost of 180,000 to 300,000 makes a lot more sense compared to a 180,000 to 3,000,000 boost.

[dbgtFO]

But a boost of 180,000 to 300,000 makes a lot more sense compared to a 180,000 to 3,000,000 boost.

Vegeta's last near death power up boosted him from 30.000 up to be comparable to Freeza's 530.000.
That's more than a 10 times increase!
So Goku getting a boost triple that isn't that stupid, when you consider, that Goku always gets stronger faster.

[Senzu_Bean]

I can see that Base Goku seems a tad weak.

Yes, he is when he should be stronger than Vegeta and Piccolo, which are both over one million.

[Rocketman]

I can see that Base Goku seems a tad weak. But a boost of 180,000 to 300,000 makes a lot more sense compared to a 180,000 to 3,000,000 boost.

Goku was 90,000. 180,000 was with the Kaioken x2.

[mister yummy]

120 million seems way too high to me too. I like the mistranslation better. Not that that makes it correct, mind you, but 12 million always made sense when I thought that was official. I think it's an order of magnitude closer than 120 million.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

It's been proven that it's literally impossible for Freeza to have a battle power of 12,000,000. Even Rocketman, who hates the higher numbers, can't seem to get it lower than 40,000,000, while still making sense. (Personally, I think anything lower than 100,000,000 doesn't make much sense, for various reasons. But, to each his own.)

I'll never understand why some of these guys have problems with the higher numbers. I mean, it's just a number! I bet you wouldn't think twice if there hadn't been that mistranslation in the first place...

[Deimos]

Yes, he is when he should be stronger than Vegeta and Piccolo, which are both over one million.

Goku is stronger... with Kaioken.

But seriously, I do understand how that can poke a hole in the theory. They were all amazed at his strength before he used Kaioken. Unless, they could feel that unused power within him.

Goku was 90,000. 180,000 was with the Kaioken x2.

That right? I've always assumed 180,000 was his unsuppressed/Fully powered-up Base state. I stand corrected.

I'll never understand why some of these guys have problems with the higher numbers. I mean, it's just a number! I bet you wouldn't think twice if there hadn't been that mistranslation in the first place...

Yeah, it is just a number. But, it is still strange on how Form 2 and 4 could be so ridiculously far apart. I think I would have called it out even without the mistranslation. At least Goku's multipliers make sense (3,000,000 x10,x20, then x50.) But when Freeza doubles his power for 1,000,000 on the first transformation then goes into a 2nd transformation that we are left in the dark about... then WHAM we get a 40,000,000-120,000,000 figure on his third. It just doesn't feel right. Which why it bugs people, including me.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

I think it shows that Piccolo, Vegeta and Goku really, really underestimated Freeza. I mean, if a couple of cheap Saiyan power-ups and a Nameccian fusion could really put you so close to Freeza's full power... he wouldn't be Freeza, the strongest in the universe. The big numbers really show you how hopeless the battle would have been, if Freeza hadn't screwed around and pissed Goku off. There's a reason Kaio told them not to fuck with the guy...