Boo Saga Plot Holes/Inconsistencies

[uzuni]

Re-reading through the Boo Arc only made me realize how many plot holes it creates for the former part of the series. This is what I picked up:

1. Kaioshin stating Gohan wasn't at full power when he was absorbed. (he was at SSJ2!)
2. Gohan fighting Dabra at SSJ1 level. (If Dabra's even with Cell, Gohan fighting at a SSJ1 level weaker than his level as a kid means he would have been instantly demolished)
3. Belittling the SSJ transformation. (As Goku shows difficulty fighting Yakon, Gohan offers his father a helping hand, telling him, "I'll fight with you dad, so you won't have to be a Super Saiyan) If Goku couldn't defeat Yakon at an SSJ1 level, what makes Gohan think two base saiyans would beat him? Besides, wasn't the Super Saiyan transformation a 50x multiplier??)
4. Finally, Trunks and Goten fighting on even terms against 18 in their base forms, and once again in their SSJ1 forms. This ties in with the third point. What happened to the legendary transformation?? It's nothing to speak of if it barely increases your power!!

[Perfect]

-_-

1.) I have no idea what you're talking about, absorbed by Buu?
2.) Nobody knows for sure which level of Super Saiyan Gohan was at, its been endlessly debated here.
3.) Gohan merely says that turning SSJ is a risk and that they'd have a better chance at winning if they fought together against Yakon. Being that he eats light energy.
4.) You do know that Trunks and Goten's base is no where near as strong as their fathers. The transformation levels them with 18 or surpasses her, it's another subject that's been debated over and over. In their base they shouldn't be anywhere near 18.

None of the things you've listed are plot holes or inconsistencies.

[dbgtFO]

1) I guess you are referring to when Yamu and Spopovitch stole SSJ 2 Gohan's energy?
Because then yeah he wasn't at full power, because his full power would be SSJ 2 Kid Gohan.
2) Yeah Toriyama just didn't care about Gohan at that point We don't even get to see the start of the fight!
3) & 4) Perfect took care of those.

[Savage68]

None of the things you've listed are plot holes or inconsistencies.

Agreed.

And for the record, I'm pretty sure the Android arc has more actual plot holes than the Buu arc does. I think the latter's misconstrued mostly because of it's goofy, nonchalant attitude and attention to exposition.

[uzuni]

-_-

1.) I have no idea what you're talking about, absorbed by Buu?
2.) Nobody knows for sure which level of Super Saiyan Gohan was at, its been endlessly debated here.
3.) Gohan merely says that turning SSJ is a risk and that they'd have a better chance at winning if they fought together against Yakon. Being that he eats light energy.
4.) You do know that Trunks and Goten's base is no where near as strong as their fathers. The transformation levels them with 18 or surpasses her, it's another subject that's been debated over and over. In their base they shouldn't be anywhere near 18.

None of the things you've listed are plot holes or inconsistencies.

I'll explain why they are.
1) I was talking about Spopovitch and Yamu sucking his energy, but it seems dbgtFO answered that one for me.
2) Judging by the appearance, it's clearly SSJ1. Would you not consider that a plot hole?
3) I suppose that explains it.
4) I agree that they shouldn't be anywhere near her in her base. But how do you explain them fighting toe-to-toe with her whilst in their base forms?

[Perfect]

-_-

1.) I have no idea what you're talking about, absorbed by Buu?
2.) Nobody knows for sure which level of Super Saiyan Gohan was at, its been endlessly debated here.
3.) Gohan merely says that turning SSJ is a risk and that they'd have a better chance at winning if they fought together against Yakon. Being that he eats light energy.
4.) You do know that Trunks and Goten's base is no where near as strong as their fathers. The transformation levels them with 18 or surpasses her, it's another subject that's been debated over and over. In their base they shouldn't be anywhere near 18.

None of the things you've listed are plot holes or inconsistencies.

I'll explain why they are.
1) I was talking about Spopovitch and Yamu sucking his energy, but it seems dbgtFO answered that one for me.
2) Judging by the appearance, it's clearly SSJ1. Would you not consider that a plot hole?
3) I suppose that explains it.
4) I agree that they shouldn't be anywhere near her in her base. But how do you explain them fighting toe-to-toe with her whilst in their base forms?

1.) It's not clearly SSJ, I don't know what implies that. There's elements from both sides that make it seem like it could be either, a decision on either side is nothing more than a theory. If Gohan were in SSJ, his fight stability can still easily be justified.
2.) In the manga the fight is very brief. 18 easily overwhelms them and smashes them into the ground of the tournament. They then turn SSJ, and so on.

[Fox666]

Dabura was said to be equal to Cell. However Cell received a zenkai, where before he could fight a SSJ now he is a match for SSJ2.

Or does any Databook clarify this?

[Perfect]

Dabura was said to be equal to Cell. However Cell received a zenkai, where before he could fight a SSJ now he is a match for SSJ2.

Or does any Databook clarify this?

Goku nonchalantly mentions that Dabura is about as formidable as Cell. I don't remember the exact line. This is pretty much regarded in the context of being dangerous, likely due to Dabura's magical abilities. Rather than strength.

[Bussani]

#18 thought she was fighting a weird human. She was probably just trying not to kill him--especially after her little accident with the strength testing machine thingy.

[Savage68]

Goku nonchalantly mentions that Dabura is about as formidable as Cell. I don't remember the exact line. This is pretty much regarded in the context of being dangerous, likely due to Dabura's magical abilities.

No, the line between strength and magic is drawn earlier, when Kaioshin says that Babidi is a weakling, yet possesses powerful magic. Also, Goku's first glimpse of Dabura's magic happens after his guesstimate was made.

[Perfect]

Actually, the first glimpse of his magic that I was referring to was his stone spit. If that counts anyway.

[Savage68]

He uses magic, huh?

The spit must not have counted as a magical ability.

[Perfect]

Then what does it count as? An odd manipulation of chi? Perhaps it's just Goku's naivety that blinds him from putting two and two together. Regardless, his guesstimate can still involve (And likely does involve) Dabura's spit.

[Cipher]

People taking the Buu arc seriously.

[Savage68]

Regardless, his guesstimate can still involve (And likely does involve) Dabura's spit.

His comparison of Dabura to Cell involved stone spit? What? Why? I've never heard anything like that before. Vegeta said that Dabura wasn't so tough, Kaioshin asked if it was true, Goku says "yup, lol." Supplementary abilities clearly have nothing to do with power citations, because they're power citations. Vegeta even said that Dabura could've been easily handled, so long as his spit was avoided. And if you fall for the spit, you're just careless.

People taking the Buu arc seriously.

Sense can be made out of it, once you try.

[Perfect]

It's Dabura's ability to turn people into stone that makes him deadly (Adding to how tough it would be for Cell to get around it), which can add as a variable to Goku's guesstimate.

Goku was, after all, not talking about who would win if Dabra fought Cell, but rather talking about how tough an opponent Dabra was compared to Cell, from their perspective

That's what I was trying to say, I just couldn't find the thread up until this point.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=14240&start=20

So yeah, his spit to me, adds that edge on comparing how tough Dabura would be to Cell (In terms of ability).

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

I agree with Savage, the Cell arc has the most actual "plot holes" in the series. The Boo arc is just vague about a lot of this power stuff. I think Toriyama was just tryin' to have a good time!

[Cipher]

Sense can be made out of it, once you try.

Sense can be made out of it with little effort. The thing is, no one should be scrutinizing the ins-and-outs of a zany comedy arc this heavily to begin with.

Everything that happens in the Buu arc happens because of magic(!) and the fact that it personally amused Toriyama. That's why it's great.

[Savage68]

It's Dabura's ability to turn people into stone that makes him deadly (Adding to how tough it would be for Cell to get around it), which can add as a variable to Goku's guesstimate.

It can. But it would only serve to discredit not only every other comparison in the series, but the the very same scene in which Vegeta safely discredits the spit and focuses on Dabura's physical ranking. Which is, after all, what Kaioshin found perplexing and what Goku confirmed for him. Bottom line: No one cared about the spit. Not anymore than they were worried about Dabura performing a Kamehameha, Kienzan or Taiyo-ken, like Cell.

Sense can be made out of it with little effort. The thing is, no one should be scrutinizing the ins-and-outs of a zany comedy arc this heavily to begin with.

Everything that happens in the Buu arc happens because of magic(!) and the fact that it personally amused Toriyama. That's why it's great.

Huh.

[Perfect]

But it's that Vegeta mentioned the spit at all that could have been added into Goku's vague mental picture between the two. They didn't have to care about it, being that they could avoid it knowingly. Really it's anyone's guess on what was going on in Goku's head. Then again, it could have discredited everything about Dabura besides his sheer power.