Boo Saga Plot Holes/Inconsistencies

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Re: Boo Saga Plot Holes/Inconsistencies

Post by Chibi Mystic Gohan » Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:45 am

It probably has to do with Boo using the techniques of those he's absorbed. He's probably thinking "I see, so you can do that." Something like that.
君と再会ったとき 子供のころ大切に想っていた景色を思い出したんだ
僕と踊ってくれないか 光と影の Winding Road いまでも彼に夢中なの?

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Re: Boo Saga Plot Holes/Inconsistencies

Post by Perfect » Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:55 am

That seems like he either has a prior knowledge of Gotenks' technique, or he's guessing it's his. At least it works in the anime.
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Re: Boo Saga Plot Holes/Inconsistencies

Post by uzuni » Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:08 pm

Vol. 23/39 states that the dragon grants THREE wishes. (They later correct this)

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Re: Boo Saga Plot Holes/Inconsistencies

Post by dbgtFO » Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:13 pm

uzuni wrote:Vol. 23/39 states that the dragon grants THREE wishes. (They later correct this)
Yeah, but that was because the first wish was used to revive multiple people, which was stated in volume 24/32/40.

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Re: Boo Saga Plot Holes/Inconsistencies

Post by uzuni » Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:02 pm

dbgtFO wrote:
uzuni wrote:Vol. 23/39 states that the dragon grants THREE wishes. (They later correct this)
Yeah, but that was because the first wish was used to revive multiple people, which was stated in volume 24/32/40.
Yeah, to which they replied they had one wish left, fixing their mistake.

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Re: Boo Saga Plot Holes/Inconsistencies

Post by TripleRach » Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:35 pm

uzuni wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
uzuni wrote:Vol. 23/39 states that the dragon grants THREE wishes. (They later correct this)
Yeah, but that was because the first wish was used to revive multiple people, which was stated in volume 24/32/40.
Yeah, to which they replied they had one wish left, fixing their mistake.
It's not a mistake. The idea was that reviving multiple people uses up two wishes, but it's not explained very clearly in the series.
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Re: Boo Saga Plot Holes/Inconsistencies

Post by Chibi Mystic Gohan » Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:35 pm

TripleRach wrote:It's not a mistake. The idea was that reviving multiple people uses up two wishes, but it's not explained very clearly in the series.
Wasn't it explicitly stated in the Japanese manga, actually?
君と再会ったとき 子供のころ大切に想っていた景色を思い出したんだ
僕と踊ってくれないか 光と影の Winding Road いまでも彼に夢中なの?

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Re: Boo Saga Plot Holes/Inconsistencies

Post by TripleRach » Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:51 pm

Chibi Mystic Gohan wrote:
TripleRach wrote:It's not a mistake. The idea was that reviving multiple people uses up two wishes, but it's not explained very clearly in the series.
Wasn't it explicitly stated in the Japanese manga, actually?
That's what I thought, but since so many people seem to miss the relevant line(s), I figured there must be something confusing or obscure about it. I just tried looking myself, but it wasn't where I thought it was, so maybe it is hidden.
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Re: Boo Saga Plot Holes/Inconsistencies

Post by Chibi Mystic Gohan » Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:08 am

Well, Dende says something about it in the Cell arc, but it was kind of vague. Then, somebody (Piccolo? Dende?) explains it more clearly in the Boo arc, when they're up in the Heavenly Realm. I don't remember the exact lines, though.

I think it's time to summon... Herms!! (Geez, do you think if we abuse him enough, he'll start to build up Minus Energy? I'd hate to have to fight seven evil versions of Herms...)
君と再会ったとき 子供のころ大切に想っていた景色を思い出したんだ
僕と踊ってくれないか 光と影の Winding Road いまでも彼に夢中なの?

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Re: Boo Saga Plot Holes/Inconsistencies

Post by uzuni » Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:11 am

In the Cell arc, Dende states the dragon will be able to grant two wishes, while in vol. 39, Bulma states he can grant three.

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Re: Boo Saga Plot Holes/Inconsistencies

Post by Chibi Mystic Gohan » Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:18 am

Dende says they'll only grant you two wishes IF you want to revive a group of people.
君と再会ったとき 子供のころ大切に想っていた景色を思い出したんだ
僕と踊ってくれないか 光と影の Winding Road いまでも彼に夢中なの?

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Re: Boo Saga Plot Holes/Inconsistencies

Post by uzuni » Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:26 am

Really? That's not the way I interpreted it :?

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Re: Boo Saga Plot Holes/Inconsistencies

Post by Chibi Mystic Gohan » Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:39 am

It's not really up for interpretation, when it's explictly stated in the Boo arc that the new Dragon Balls have three wishes, is it?
君と再会ったとき 子供のころ大切に想っていた景色を思い出したんだ
僕と踊ってくれないか 光と影の Winding Road いまでも彼に夢中なの?

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Re: Boo Saga Plot Holes/Inconsistencies

Post by uzuni » Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:52 am

They were stated to be able to grant two wishes when they were created...

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Re: Boo Saga Plot Holes/Inconsistencies

Post by Chibi Mystic Gohan » Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:01 am

No, Dende says he'll make the new Dragon Balls grant three wishes, right? Then, somebody asks if he can possibly give them the ability to revive a whole group of people, and Dende replies that they'll only be able to grant two wishes, if he does that. That's why, at the end of the Cell arc, they only got two wishes, because they revived everybody that was killed by Cell. If Oolong came along and wished for a pair of panties, a bra, and a hot babe to go with them, there's enough power in the DBs to give him all three wishes. :D

The way it's worded, in the Cell arc, it kind of sounds like the DBs can only grant two wishes, no matter what, just to even have that ability in the first place. But Toriyama later clarified the rules, in the Boo arc.
君と再会ったとき 子供のころ大切に想っていた景色を思い出したんだ
僕と踊ってくれないか 光と影の Winding Road いまでも彼に夢中なの?

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Re: Boo Saga Plot Holes/Inconsistencies

Post by Bussani » Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:23 pm

Chibi Mystic Gohan wrote:No, Dende says he'll make the new Dragon Balls grant three wishes, right? Then, somebody asks if he can possibly give them the ability to revive a whole group of people, and Dende replies that they'll only be able to grant two wishes, if he does that. That's why, at the end of the Cell arc, they only got two wishes, because they revived everybody that was killed by Cell. If Oolong came along and wished for a pair of panties, a bra, and a hot babe to go with them, there's enough power in the DBs to give him all three wishes. :D

The way it's worded, in the Cell arc, it kind of sounds like the DBs can only grant two wishes, no matter what, just to even have that ability in the first place. But Toriyama later clarified the rules, in the Boo arc.
This is correct. The explanation is vague enough in the Cell saga that we don't know if it was a retcon by Toriyama or planned all along, but Piccolo explains it more clearly towards the start of volume 40.

Bulma: "Mom and dad will be killed!"
Goku: "The dragon balls'll bring them back to life."
Bulma: "But the city of the west will be destroyed!"
Goku: "We can bring it back with the second wish!"
Piccolo: "No. We have restored the dead to life with our first wish already. We have but one wish now."
Goku: "Oh...right..."

If I remember right, Goku says something like, "It did work like that, didn't it?" in the original dialog.
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Re: Boo Saga Plot Holes/Inconsistencies

Post by cpd12589 » Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:59 am

uzuni wrote:Re-reading through the Boo Arc only made me realize how many plot holes it creates for the former part of the series. This is what I picked up:

1. Kaioshin stating Gohan wasn't at full power when he was absorbed. (he was at SSJ2!)
2. Gohan fighting Dabra at SSJ1 level. (If Dabra's even with Cell, Gohan fighting at a SSJ1 level weaker than his level as a kid means he would have been instantly demolished)
3. Belittling the SSJ transformation. (As Goku shows difficulty fighting Yakon, Gohan offers his father a helping hand, telling him, "I'll fight with you dad, so you won't have to be a Super Saiyan) If Goku couldn't defeat Yakon at an SSJ1 level, what makes Gohan think two base saiyans would beat him? Besides, wasn't the Super Saiyan transformation a 50x multiplier??) :?
4. Finally, Trunks and Goten fighting on even terms against 18 in their base forms, and once again in their SSJ1 forms. This ties in with the third point. What happened to the legendary transformation?? It's nothing to speak of if it barely increases your power!!
1. Many people think Gohan was a SSJ1 at that point still even though Gohan said he was at full power when he fired his blast at the ball Buu was in. So Idk...

2. It definitely states in the manga that Dabura is equal to Cell then Goku even says later than Dabura is stronger than he thought. So it really doesn't make sense that Gohan would fight him at SSJ1 since Gohan at SSJ1 should be just beaten down no problem. It's just something that really doesn't make any sense when you think about it...

3. Just doesn't make sense....

4. Trunks and Goten only continued to fight C18 in their SSJ forms in the anime. In the manga they fire a blast at C18 and she dodges it noting that the blast is very powerful and looking quite shocked and then she fires a blast back at them at their center to split them in half since she figured out who they were.

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Re: Boo Saga Plot Holes/Inconsistencies

Post by Rocketman » Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:08 am

cpd12589 wrote:1. Many people think Gohan was a SSJ1 at that point still even though Gohan said he was at full power when he fired his blast at the ball Buu was in. So Idk...
He has no lightning. Goku and Vegeta are surrounded by it on the page before and the page after.

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Re: Boo Saga Plot Holes/Inconsistencies

Post by Senzu_Bean » Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:07 am

Rocketman wrote:
cpd12589 wrote:1. Many people think Gohan was a SSJ1 at that point still even though Gohan said he was at full power when he fired his blast at the ball Buu was in. So Idk...
Buu was at full power, not Gohan.

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Re: Boo Saga Plot Holes/Inconsistencies

Post by dbgtFO » Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:17 am

Rocketman wrote:
cpd12589 wrote:1. Many people think Gohan was a SSJ1 at that point still even though Gohan said he was at full power when he fired his blast at the ball Buu was in. So Idk...
He has no lightning. Goku and Vegeta are surrounded by it on the page before and the page after.
I can buy, that Gohan was SSJ 2, when he made that Kamehameha, because charging a ki blast doesn't require lightning(seen with SSJ 2 Gohan at the Cell Games).
About Dabra...
Daizenshuu 7 wrote:A fairly even battle unfolded between him and Super Saiyan 2 Gohan. Afterwards, he sensed that the revived Majin Buu was dangerous, and tried to defeat him, but was turned into a cookie and eaten. Despite being the strongest in the Demon Realm, feared even by Kaioshin, he came to an extremely pathetic end...
As found on Kanzentai.
The obvious answer is, that *Gohan started out in Super Saiyan 2, since Dabra was stronger, than Cell(obviously Perfect Cell full power) they fought evenly, Gohan then landed a hit on Dabra, that made him unable to use his full power and he can only use 50% of his power now.
Gohan then loses his SSJ 2 form and goes back to SSJ, because he hasn't learned to control it yet.* And from what Goku has seen Dabra is stronger, than what he expected. :P
Note, that text marked with * happened, while the story shifted its focus to the 25th TB.
Senzu_Bean wrote:
Rocketman wrote:
cpd12589 wrote:1. Many people think Gohan was a SSJ1 at that point still even though Gohan said he was at full power when he fired his blast at the ball Buu was in. So Idk...
Buu was at full power, not Gohan.
True.

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