Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 16; Still Unreleased

[songohan619]

It could be the same now, or perhaps they will put Kai out in Canada at some point. But, one thing bothers me. Why do people keep saying an Ocean Dub would be cheaper to purchase than the FUNi dub? Does Ocean regularly charge less? Does FUNi charge more for international licensing?

Anyone who has seen the Ocean dub of Dragonball Z and can remain objective about it can tell that it was a very low-budget dub, with the bulk of the production costs likely going to the actors themselves. The production values just weren't really that great until the Kid Buu episodes, hence the recycled music and incredibly minimal use of post-production audio effects like reverb to enhance screams and so on (reverb wasn't used until the later Buu saga episodes when production values noticeably increased, and new music was finally produced for the dub alongside the Mega Man and Monster Rancher music).

That said, given how cheaply the dub was made, it could naturally be sold for less. It had to be; FUNimation was still the chief competitor and their dub was the most well-known, so there needed to be some sort of incentive for networks to buy the alternate Canadian-made dub.

As dagame10k mentioned, these factors all play into the bottom line: that these decisions made sense economically. Ocean wasn't selling their product on DVD (where the real profit lies) so there's no way they could've been selling their dub to TV networks for the same price or more than FUNimation's dub.

This is one of the reasons I wonder why they'd bother doing an Ocean dub for Kai.

Say people start watching the Ocean Kai dub on television. They're going to go to the store to look for the version they watched. They're going to find the Funimation version, not the Ocean version.

Why not just air the Funimation dub? The home video release will have the same voices the people watching on TV are used to.

For the same reason that they dubbed Dragonball Z several years ago: because it's a way for them to make money. They just need to keep their production costs low so as to compete with FUNi's dub for TV air-time.

Why does any company bother to make a product that is similar to a product that already exists, right? And yet it happens all the time. We may look at this objectively and think that there's no point in Canada producing its own dub of Kai, but we're not the ones making money in the television business. Money is all that this has ever been about. This company has the legal go-ahead to product its own version of Kai and knows that there's a market for it, so they're doing it, even if it is ultimately redundant.

It's economic common sense, Home video releases are added profit, but Ocean doesn't have a market, or the interest in trying such a venture. TV only means there is less revenue, means less money coming back, they spend less on production so they can make more profit. TV Only gets them a one time payout, the TV stations rent the dub for a given amount of time.

Given how bad the voicing acting in the Westwood dub sounded, littered with terrible acting, recycled Megaman/Monster Rancher/Hamtaro music(a lot cheaper), and then the later cast replacement with the horrible Blue Water cast, it's really common sense.

It's not how big Ocean's budget was, but more on how cheap Funimation's dub was. Funimation left the professional Ocean cast for cheap people with no previous experience for a reason; money. Ocean's VAs are supported by a union on top of their experience so naturally they'd cost more than Funimation's cast.

Here's the thing, though: most of Ocean's (limited) budget would've gone to its actors, which is why the rest of the show didn't have a lot of money put into it. Fans may have enjoyed the Ocean dub a great deal, as many did, but things like using scripts that are nearly identical to FUNi's and using recycled music from other TV shows is not an indicator of a big-budget dub.

In 2001, FUNimation sold season 5 of its Dragonball Z dub to Cartoon Network for $10,000,000. Even if they were paying their actors less, as they likely were, the popularity of the show in the United States had still skyrocketed since 1999, so they could sell their product for more and more every year. There is simply no way that Ocean's dub cost more than that.

Anime DVD releases are more mainstream now than they were in the early 2000s. Once the Ocean dub of Kai starts being broadcast, there's a good chance it will receive a DVD/Blu Ray release. What is needed is a DVD distributor to purchase the rights. There are a couple of Anime companies in the UK who have been trying to secure the rights to DBZ for some time, I would think one of them might purchase the rights to distribute the Ocean's DB Kai dub on DVD/Blu Ray.

If Ocean's Kai were to receive any sort of release, it would probably be exclusive to Europe because of the Canadian rights issues.

Which actually brings up another topic: while the rights issues surrounding the Canadian dub have never been truly clarified, the general consensus is that if AB Groupe wanted to, they could have licensed and sold Ocean's Dragonball Z in the English-speaking European countries, even though they played a very limited hand in the production of the dub. But for them, overseeing the distribution rights for all of Europe, licensing the dub for DVD release would've been pretty easy (at least in theory). Unfortunately, the France-based AB Groupe has only ever catered to the French market and basically ignores most of the rest of Europe, which is why England, for example, has never gotten any DVD releases of the show.

In the UK and Europe they won't find the Funimation version

Really? Isn't Kai sold in England?

None of FUNimation's Dragonball products have ever been made legally available to purchase in England or mainland Europe.

Wrong. In norway, we have a shop called Outland, witch sells english manga and enlish dubbed anime. i bought all the orange bricks there.

[songohan619]

It could be the same now, or perhaps they will put Kai out in Canada at some point. But, one thing bothers me. Why do people keep saying an Ocean Dub would be cheaper to purchase than the FUNi dub? Does Ocean regularly charge less? Does FUNi charge more for international licensing?

Anyone who has seen the Ocean dub of Dragonball Z and can remain objective about it can tell that it was a very low-budget dub, with the bulk of the production costs likely going to the actors themselves. The production values just weren't really that great until the Kid Buu episodes, hence the recycled music and incredibly minimal use of post-production audio effects like reverb to enhance screams and so on (reverb wasn't used until the later Buu saga episodes when production values noticeably increased, and new music was finally produced for the dub alongside the Mega Man and Monster Rancher music).

That said, given how cheaply the dub was made, it could naturally be sold for less. It had to be; FUNimation was still the chief competitor and their dub was the most well-known, so there needed to be some sort of incentive for networks to buy the alternate Canadian-made dub.

As dagame10k mentioned, these factors all play into the bottom line: that these decisions made sense economically. Ocean wasn't selling their product on DVD (where the real profit lies) so there's no way they could've been selling their dub to TV networks for the same price or more than FUNimation's dub.

This is one of the reasons I wonder why they'd bother doing an Ocean dub for Kai.

Say people start watching the Ocean Kai dub on television. They're going to go to the store to look for the version they watched. They're going to find the Funimation version, not the Ocean version.

Why not just air the Funimation dub? The home video release will have the same voices the people watching on TV are used to.

For the same reason that they dubbed Dragonball Z several years ago: because it's a way for them to make money. They just need to keep their production costs low so as to compete with FUNi's dub for TV air-time.

Why does any company bother to make a product that is similar to a product that already exists, right? And yet it happens all the time. We may look at this objectively and think that there's no point in Canada producing its own dub of Kai, but we're not the ones making money in the television business. Money is all that this has ever been about. This company has the legal go-ahead to product its own version of Kai and knows that there's a market for it, so they're doing it, even if it is ultimately redundant.

It's economic common sense, Home video releases are added profit, but Ocean doesn't have a market, or the interest in trying such a venture. TV only means there is less revenue, means less money coming back, they spend less on production so they can make more profit. TV Only gets them a one time payout, the TV stations rent the dub for a given amount of time.

Given how bad the voicing acting in the Westwood dub sounded, littered with terrible acting, recycled Megaman/Monster Rancher/Hamtaro music(a lot cheaper), and then the later cast replacement with the horrible Blue Water cast, it's really common sense.

It's not how big Ocean's budget was, but more on how cheap Funimation's dub was. Funimation left the professional Ocean cast for cheap people with no previous experience for a reason; money. Ocean's VAs are supported by a union on top of their experience so naturally they'd cost more than Funimation's cast.

Here's the thing, though: most of Ocean's (limited) budget would've gone to its actors, which is why the rest of the show didn't have a lot of money put into it. Fans may have enjoyed the Ocean dub a great deal, as many did, but things like using scripts that are nearly identical to FUNi's and using recycled music from other TV shows is not an indicator of a big-budget dub.

In 2001, FUNimation sold season 5 of its Dragonball Z dub to Cartoon Network for $10,000,000. Even if they were paying their actors less, as they likely were, the popularity of the show in the United States had still skyrocketed since 1999, so they could sell their product for more and more every year. There is simply no way that Ocean's dub cost more than that.

Anime DVD releases are more mainstream now than they were in the early 2000s. Once the Ocean dub of Kai starts being broadcast, there's a good chance it will receive a DVD/Blu Ray release. What is needed is a DVD distributor to purchase the rights. There are a couple of Anime companies in the UK who have been trying to secure the rights to DBZ for some time, I would think one of them might purchase the rights to distribute the Ocean's DB Kai dub on DVD/Blu Ray.

If Ocean's Kai were to receive any sort of release, it would probably be exclusive to Europe because of the Canadian rights issues.

Which actually brings up another topic: while the rights issues surrounding the Canadian dub have never been truly clarified, the general consensus is that if AB Groupe wanted to, they could have licensed and sold Ocean's Dragonball Z in the English-speaking European countries, even though they played a very limited hand in the production of the dub. But for them, overseeing the distribution rights for all of Europe, licensing the dub for DVD release would've been pretty easy (at least in theory). Unfortunately, the France-based AB Groupe has only ever catered to the French market and basically ignores most of the rest of Europe, which is why England, for example, has never gotten any DVD releases of the show.

In the UK and Europe they won't find the Funimation version

Really? Isn't Kai sold in England?

None of FUNimation's Dragonball products have ever been made legally available to purchase in England or mainland Europe.

Wrong. In norway, we have a shop called Outland, witch sells english manga and enlish dubbed anime. i bought all the orange bricks there.

[B]

For the same reason that they dubbed Dragonball Z several years ago: because it's a way for them to make money. They just need to keep their production costs low so as to compete with FUNi's dub for TV air-time.

But wouldn't getting a studio, equipment, and hiring all those actors to come in and say their lines cost them money? If they aren't putting out a DVD release separate from FUNimation's, the only profit they'd be seeing is ad-supported broadcast on Canadian TV, correct?

Who is "they," by the way? Ocean? Some nameless licensing company in Canada? Ocean's a dubbing studio, so I don't think they are necessarily involved with the "getting the show on television" aspect.

[Dark Vegeta-Sama]

Wrong. In norway, we have a shop called Outland, witch sells english manga and enlish dubbed anime. i bought all the orange bricks there.

It's not "wrong." Those are imports from North America, not releases that are exclusive to your country. In Australia, FUNimation releases alternate versions of their products to the Australian market through Madman, exclusively for that market. In Europe you've never had anything like that (they legally can't because AB Groupe holds the European distribution rights), and there would only be a handful of stores that sell imported copies like the one you describe. Hence, none of FUNimation's Dragonball products are "legally available" save for a very few amount of stores that would sell imported copies.

[dagame10k]

Do you really think a sound recording company would have more money to spend on their dub than a company like FUNimation who had a broadcaster like Cartoon Network spend a huge sum of money on the US broadcasting rights for the show?

They may do, after all Ocean sold their dub to more networks/broadcasters than Funimation did. But that's not the point. Even if Funi has the money to spend on their dub, they are probably reluctant to because they want to maximise their profit and they wanted to acquire new Anime licenses, they needed the money for that. Funimation was built on the success of DBZ.

If you want to talk about cheap, do intentionally ignore the fact that Ken Morrison dumped the better Ocean cast for Blue Water,

I'm not ignoring that. We're not talking about the Blue Water cast. But if you want my view, I'd rather have the Ocean cast dub DBGT instead of Blue Water. Years ago, when I found out that the Ocean cast were going to dub DBGT and had actually started pre-production on it but then the project suddenly moved to Blue Water because of one man, it pained me. Even today I still have some regrets and feel the Ocean cast would've done better even if they didn't use the original music. That doesn't mean I dislike the Blue Water dub, I like it, but not as much as the Ocean dub.

a cast even worse than FUNimation's Season 3?

Funimation's season 3 was terribly dubbed, Blue Water were much better by comparison.

You know I would like to continue this debate with you, but unfortunately your blind love of the Westwood/Ocean Dragon Ball productions makes debating with you pointless. I don't to see this thread be closed because of this pointless off topic debate, so I'll leave it at that.

Anyway being Canadian, and the fact that I love the quality voice acting that comes out of Vancouver, I can only hope the budget is better, casting is solid, and voice acting doesn't sound as Robotic as it did in the Westwood Dragon Ball Z dub. If it's not, I'm not afraid to tell it like it is, even if I am a fan.

[RazorX]

Do you really think a sound recording company would have more money to spend on their dub than a company like FUNimation who had a broadcaster like Cartoon Network spend a huge sum of money on the US broadcasting rights for the show?

They may do, after all Ocean sold their dub to more networks/broadcasters than Funimation did. But that's not the point. Even if Funi has the money to spend on their dub, they are probably reluctant to because they want to maximise their profit and they wanted to acquire new Anime licenses, they needed the money for that. Funimation was built on the success of DBZ.

If you want to talk about cheap, do intentionally ignore the fact that Ken Morrison dumped the better Ocean cast for Blue Water,

I'm not ignoring that. We're not talking about the Blue Water cast. But if you want my view, I'd rather have the Ocean cast dub DBGT instead of Blue Water. Years ago, when I found out that the Ocean cast were going to dub DBGT and had actually started pre-production on it but then the project suddenly moved to Blue Water because of one man, it pained me. Even today I still have some regrets and feel the Ocean cast would've done better even if they didn't use the original music. That doesn't mean I dislike the Blue Water dub, I like it, but not as much as the Ocean dub.

a cast even worse than FUNimation's Season 3?

Funimation's season 3 was terribly dubbed, Blue Water were much better by comparison.

You know I would like to continue this debate with you, but unfortunately your blind love of the Westwood/Ocean Dragon Ball productions makes debating with you pointless. I don't to see this thread be closed because of this pointless off topic debate, so I'll leave it at that.

Anyway being Canadian, and the fact that I love the quality voice acting that comes out of Vancouver, I can only hope the budget is better, casting is solid, and voice acting doesn't sound as Robotic as it did in the Westwood Dragon Ball Z dub. If it's not, I'm not afraid to tell it like it is, even if I am a fan.

Blind love? Because I refuse to jump into the "Omg Ocean uzed re syecled music, dat must meen dey r cheepa" bandwagon?

There's more factors to consider than music to understand why Ocean's dub probably cost more to produce, some of which I've already outlined. If actual cost figures for the DBZ dubs were presented before us and Funimation's version turned out to cost more to produce, I'd accept it, it won't decrease my enjoyment of the Ocean dub.

With regards to Ocean's Kai dub, I do hope the budget is bigger and more time is spent on it than Ocean's DBZ dub. It appears to be that way from the information we have so far, because if they didn't have such a great budget and were in a hurry to rush it, they'd probably use the safe route and cast Kirby Morrow as Goku, who is willing and available to do the role.

But Ocean need to keep Drummond as Vegeta and McNeil as Piccolo, those 2 have always sticked out as among the best in the dub.

[Garlic]

But Ocean need to keep Drummond as Vegeta and McNeil as Piccolo, those 2 have always sticked out as among the best in the dub.[/quote]
Yeah but they definetly need to get rid of pauline newstone.

[Daimo-Rukiri]

Sabat nor Drummond sound like the definitive choices for me, also if they're serious about casting it's a high possibility that any input would be from the Japanese version as they have outlined reasons why Kirby can't be Goku.

Sabat has improved but he's no Ryo/Vegeta, Drummond would probably be more collected and act more proper to the character(like sabat in Kai) but again the 2 only fit small bits and peices to the puzzle.

I'd suspect a complete recast.. as if they want to do it right some fans will just have to live with it, I'd rather take an accurate dub script wise and vocal wise than to hear fanboys crying that they're favorite actor isn't playing the role.

Look at what happened when Colleen took over, she was far superior to any VA that's taken the role but fanboys don't give a Sh**!

[linkdude20002001]

Drummond's only problem was the direction he chose to (or was told to) portray Vegeta. If he didn't act like a raging psychopath, he'd be perfect.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Drummond's only problem was the direction he chose to (or was told to) portray Vegeta. If he didn't act like a raging psychopath, he'd be perfect.

As well as just plain over-the-top and funny to listen to, which I'm sure wasn't the intention of Ocean Studios.

[Garlic]

They definetly need to recast Tenshinhan after a line like this.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGZEqxiz ... etailpager, Nuff said.

[RazorX]

They definetly need to recast Tenshinhan after a line like this.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGZEqxiz ... etailpager, Nuff said.

Funimation were responsible for the script in the early dubs of the first 2 sagas. Matt Smith, like any other voice actor, is given the script to read and act from. Voice actors usually don't have the freedom to change the script as they please. The "cowboy" line is rubbish and should not have been there but Tien would've said it no matter who voiced him. The first Saiyan-Namek Ocean/Funi/Saban dubs are an example of excellent voice work but not so good scripting.

Ocean's got a decent voice actor for Tien, there's no need for Ocean to replace him.

[penguintruth]

The read of the line wasn't good, either.

Tenshinhan's never had a great English voice, as far as I'm concerned. No matter which company's cast him.

[Garlic]

They definetly need to recast Tenshinhan after a line like this.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGZEqxiz ... etailpager, Nuff said.

Funimation were responsible for the script in the early dubs of the first 2 sagas. Matt Smith, like any other voice actor, is given the script to read and act from. Voice actors usually don't have the freedom to change the script as they please. The first Saiyan-Namek Ocean/Funi/Saban dubs are an example of excellent voice work but not so good scripting.

Ocean's got a decent voice actor for Tenshinhan, there's no need for Ocean to replace him.

I`m aware of that but even in the later episodes his delivery seems very stiff,not to say that john burgmiger is good for the role either.I really wanted Tenshinhan recasted in both versions but It seems likely that won`t happen.

[RazorX]

With a line like "Three eyed cowboy" it's difficult to have a delivery you can call really good, and that's down to the script, those words coming out of Tien's mouth are unacceptable. The "cowboy" line sits at the bottom of the pack, alongside "mondo cool" when it comes to the scripting DBZ got. Thankfully the rest of the script, no matter how inaccurate, wasn't as bad or corny as that line was.

I'd say that Brendan Hunter rivals Matt Smith for the title of Best dub Tien voice.

The problem with John Burgmeier is that his voice is too soft for Tien and he sounds bored a lot of the time, especially the recent Kai episodes.

[DemonRin]

Is this still really going to happen?....
I mean, I just guess I don't see the point in a company actually paying to put together another dub of this material...

[RazorX]

Is this still really going to happen?....
I mean, I just guess I don't see the point in a company actually paying to put together another dub of this material...

I see the point, so do the people who grew up with (and/or outright prefer) the Ocean dub, so does the company behind the Ocean Kai dub and so do Toei Animation.

I have a few Sony DVD recorders, very good quality. They do what I expect of them and more. So what's the point of Panasonic, Philips, LG, Samsung etc producing their own DVD recorders? Simple, there's a market for them, there's sufficient demand for them, so why not?

Competition in the dubbing industry can only help quality for the consumers and I'm glad that Dragon Ball, my personal favourite series, gets various English dubs, even if I'm only interested in the Ocean and Blue Water versions.

As far as I'm concerned, Ocean's dub of Kai is far more important than Funimation's dub of Kai.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

As far as I'm concerned, Ocean's dub of Kai is far more important than Funimation's dub of Kai.

Ugh, here we go again.........



Seriously, how do you figure? And please don't say the Ocean dub has more fans.

[JulieYBM]

As far as I'm concerned, Ocean's dub of Kai is far more important than Funimation's dub of Kai.

Ugh, here we go again.........



Seriously, how do you figure? And please don't say the Ocean dub has more fans.

Well, a secondary English dub being made by a studio just as prolific is a pretty odd occurance.

[RazorX]

As far as I'm concerned, Ocean's dub of Kai is far more important than Funimation's dub of Kai.

Ugh, here we go again.........



Seriously, how do you figure? And please don't say the Ocean dub has more fans.

Because the Ocean dub is bound to be better than Funimation's. Funi's Kai dub, though very much improved from their Z dub, still suffers major problems (Kaio & Ox King to name 2 of the most obvious) If there can be a Kai dub with the Ocean's voices, with good direction and good scripts, it will be amazing. And by amazing, that means the Ocean dub will leave Funi's dub in its dust. At the end of the day we watch DBZ because we like it, we enjoy it. Ocean's dub provides so much more enjoyment than Funi's and that's one of the reasons why it's much more important.
In case it wasn't obvious from the quote, I'll reiterate that this is from my point of view.

Well, a secondary English dub being made by a studio just as prolific is a pretty odd occurance

It's not common but it is feasible for the DB series and continues to be so.