Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Rocketman]

So in my view, when I make power level lists, Vegetto would not be the equivalent of Goku's battle power multiplied with Vegeta's, since, that would make him WAAAY stronger, than Buuhan, which is ridiculous, based on him only fighting in SSJ.

Vegetto had to take a form Buu could understand, much the same way as seeing the true face of Zeus vaporized Semele.

[uzuni]

Wow, dbgtFO, that's an interesting scan. Can we get a full translation of the other parts of the pages??

I tried searching for it on Kanzentai, but they haven't translated it for their site yet apparently.
But here's an old thread, from when it first came out.
http://daizex.fanboyreview.net/viewtopi ... me#p243680
Check out Herms' 3rd paragraph. For some reason he didn't state the effects of potara, but since we know now, it doesn't matter.

Hmm, I wonder what that little panel with Freeza could be saying...:S

[dbgtFO]

So in my view, when I make power level lists, Vegetto would not be the equivalent of Goku's battle power multiplied with Vegeta's, since, that would make him WAAAY stronger, than Buuhan, which is ridiculous, based on him only fighting in SSJ.

Vegetto had to take a form Buu could understand, much the same way as seeing the true face of Zeus vaporized Semele.

You like Greek Mythology eh? as always wiki told me who this "Semele" is.
I actually don't have a reply to this, now that I think about it...

Hmm, I wonder what that little panel with Freeza could be saying...:S

Since the number 1000 is mentioned a couple of times, I would assume it's referring to the Super Saiyan legend of a Super Saiyan being born once every 1000 year. Sounds reasonable to me, that it would have a picture of Freeza, who was the catalyst for Goku becoming Super Saiyan, along with the description of Super Saiyan being 50x BP.
EDIT: Wait you are specifically referring to the manga panel right? If so Freeza's lines are that they keep mentioning this Super Saiyan legend, but he doesn't believe it.

[lash]

So in my view, when I make power level lists, Vegetto would not be the equivalent of Goku's battle power multiplied with Vegeta's, since, that would make him WAAAY stronger, than Buuhan, which is ridiculous, based on him only fighting in SSJ.

Then just make Shin Buu w/ Gohan and co stronger.

Goku x Vegeta = Vegetto isn't impossible, it's just no one is just willing to give it a shot and stick to it. My own fan made list incorporates it and aside from insanely huge numbers and things like SSJ3 having a nice small boost for Goku(A gracious over 10 million times base increase... Lol), it's just fine.

[Rocketman]

Goku x Vegeta = Vegetto isn't impossible, it's just no one is just willing to give it a shot and stick to it.

My fan list uses it and also works just fine.

[dbgtFO]

So in my view, when I make power level lists, Vegetto would not be the equivalent of Goku's battle power multiplied with Vegeta's, since, that would make him WAAAY stronger, than Buuhan, which is ridiculous, based on him only fighting in SSJ.

Then just make Shin Buu w/ Gohan and co stronger.

Nah, I'm fine with what I have now. I don't want to bother with such insanely large numbers, even if it IS Vegetto.

Goku x Vegeta = Vegetto isn't impossible, it's just no one is just willing to give it a shot and stick to it. My own fan made list incorporates it and aside from insanely huge numbers and things like SSJ3 having a nice small boost for Goku(A gracious over 10 million times base increase... Lol), it's just fine.

Post it, so we can see.

Goku x Vegeta = Vegetto isn't impossible, it's just no one is just willing to give it a shot and stick to it.

My fan list uses it and also works just fine.

Yeah, but you don't use 120 million/150 million, which SEG has as official numbers, so I will likewise say, that I'll only use, what I find the most reasonable, when making these lists.

[p123]

AxB method simply won't work for KibitoShin and Vegetto. Try it out though.


Where is everyone on base Vegetto's strength?

Are you guys in line with...


Buuhan > Base Gogeta > Buutenks > Base Vegetto


Base Vegetto vs Gohan? Who wins?

[dbgtFO]

Base Vegetto vs Gohan? Who wins?

I have Vegetto winning.
Gohan in my power levels would be 80% of Vegetto, which is enough for Gohan to be severely outclassed.

[Rocketman]

AxB method simply won't work for KibitoShin and Vegetto. Try it out though.


Where is everyone on base Vegetto's strength?

Are you guys in line with...


Buuhan > Base Gogeta > Buutenks > Base Vegetto


Base Vegetto vs Gohan? Who wins?

Base Vegetto would beat the piss out of Gohan. Base Vegetto would beat Gohan so hard that the moisture in the air would be forced into his bladder and transmute into piss so Gohan could continue to get the piss beat out of him.


It's also not said that the Potara is AxB, only that Vegetto is. Fuck Kibitokai, he's a straight up busta.

[p123]

In the manga it's never really suggested that the rivals boost is all that big for Vegetto. Potara fusion should work exactly the same for Vegetto as it does for KibitoSHin minus the rivals boost of course.

[Fox666]

Fusion = A x B

It makes complete sense, since we don't see a character created by fusion fighting a normal character!!


Kaioshin: 1 billion
Kibito: 30 million
Goku base: 60 million
Goku SSJFP: 3 billion

Kibitoshin: 30 quadrillion


Kibitoshin was confident he could handle Buu. However, for Dai Kaioshin says he would be useless against Super Buu with Gotenks absorbed.

Goten base: 22 million
Trunks base: 23 million

Gotenks base: 500 trillion
Gotenks SSJ: 25 quadrillion
Gotenks SSJ3: 100 quadrillion


So making the list it looks like this:

Kibito: 30,000,000
Goku base: 60,000,000
Kaioshin: 1,000,000,000
Goku SSJ: 3,000,000,000
Goku SSJ3: 24,000,000,000
Gotenks base: 500,000,000,000,000
Kibitoshin: 30,000,000,000,000,000
Gotenks SSJ3: 100,000,000,000,000,000
Gotenks Buu: 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Vegetto: 4,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

Everything makes sense now, I never imagined Super Buu was that strong. Now I understand why everybody was impressed with Gotenks after he transformed!!


Nah, not serious on this

[p123]

I'm assuming you think


Yakon 800,000,000
Goku Base 60,000,000

You have no problems with that? Gohan seems very confident that his dad can take on Yakon in base prior to being on the dark planet.

I just can't see Goku avoiding Yakon trying to kill him twice unless Goku is at least on par...

[Kaboom]

Gohan seems very confident that his dad can take on Yakon in base prior to being on the dark planet.

When Kaioshin is worried, Gohan says something to the effect of, "don't worry, Dad can handle it." A minute or so later, Yakon does something which seems to render Super Saiyan useless for Goku. Once that happens, Gohan actually offers to jump in and help Goku.

This might suggest that Gohan's confidence in Goku stems from knowing he's got Super Saiyan up his sleeve. Take away that advantage, however, and he might be in trouble. However, I don't believe he could be THAT much stronger than Goku, if Gohan thought that working together, without Super Saiyan, would be any good.

So if Yakon's stronger than base Goku, it's probably not drastically so.

[p123]

Good point. But yes I agree, Yakon ~ Base Goku...


Kaboom, what's your opinon on this... Since your numbers are very low, how does Cooler factor into that?

Cooler suggests that Base Goku is stronger than Freeza. Goku likely uses KKx10/Kkx20 against FF Cooler, who is massively stronger than that. Then SSJ Goku is even stronger than that... Meta Cooler being stronger than SSJ Goku who is perhaps stronger than he was in Movie 5.

So... this is what I got...


Meta Cooler Post 10,000,000,000
SSJ Goku 8,500,000,000
SSJ Vegeta 8,250,000,000
SSJ Goku ( 5 ) 7,500,000,000
FF Cooler 4,700,000,000
KKx20 Goku 3,000,000,000
KKx10 Goku 1,500,000,000
Base Goku 150,000,000
100% Freeza 144,000,000
Cooler 140,000,000


I know you are a 120/150 advocate. But that's besides the point, Cooler is ridicolously strong...


You only have Ultimate Gohan 1.6x stronger than Meta Cooler. What's your take on all of that?

[Kaboom]

Cooler suggests that Base Goku is stronger than Freeza.

Bullshit. I don't buy it at all. Especially since later, Coola credits Super Saiyan to making Goku so superior to Freeza.

The movie is a parallel to the Freeza battle, and that's the range I put it in. Coola ends up somewhat stronger than Freeza, like Goku notes, but a moderately-improved-since-Namek Goku at Super Saiyan is able to easily spank him like a misbehaving stepchild.

• Son Goku - 3,350,000
  Super Saiyan - 175,000,000
  
  Coola (Transformed) - 135,000,000

In Movie 6, which is sorta-kinda-maybe-dunno placed soon before the Androids' arrival... everyone is placed appropriately, with Goku and Vegeta only being slightly weaker than they were on that fateful May morning. Metal Coola's power starts off a bit weaker than Goku's but he increases in power several times.

• Son Goku - 4,150,000
  Super Saiyan - 208,000,000
  Vegeta - 4,350,000
  Super Saiyan - 218,000,000
  
  Metal Cooler - 195,000,000
  Post-Repair 1 - 225,000,000
  Post-Repair 2 - 315,000,000

[p123]

I agree, Movie 5 mimics the Freeza fight. Wouldn't Goku's zenkai therefore mimic Goku's Zenkai on Namek? Goku gets roughly a 33x zenkai, wouldn't it make sense that Goku get's a 50x zenkai against Cooler? Judging by TOEI logic they like to always go bigger and better.

And I had a feeling you would have taken this approach.

So explain

You do as well as I expected. Enough to have beaten my brother...


So are you saying that Cooler was flat out lieing?

[Kaboom]

I agree, Movie 5 mimics the Freeza fight. Wouldn't Goku's zenkai therefore mimic Goku's Zenkai on Namek? Goku gets roughly a 33x zenkai, wouldn't it make sense that Goku get's a 50x zenkai against Cooler? Judging by TOEI logic they like to always go bigger and better.

Goku's a Super Saiyan now. He doesn't get super-big healing boosts anymore. Nothing in the movie explicitly says he got one at all.

So are you saying that Cooler was flat out lying?

Lying, misinformed, mistaken, bluffing, etc... Take your pick.

[p123]

Goku's definitley suggested to have gotten a zenkai. You really don't think he did? In the manga Post Freeza Saga the zenkais are done, but judging by the time of the movie TOEI never got the memo.

[Kaboom]

Goku's definitley suggested to have gotten a zenkai. You really don't think he did?

"Suggested" being the key word there, and it's just as easily interpreted as simply not being powered up before vs now being powered up. After all, scouters shouldn't even be able to handle reading battle powers of over a million, and nothing was exploding before Goku's emergence from the cave towards the finale. (Which would probably also mean Piccolo wasn't anywhere near his million-plus full power while he schooled Coola's Armored Squad)

If Goku did get a healing boost, it'd be small and hardly noticeable. Certainly not even worth mentioning in the film, which it wasn't.

[p123]

You surely got your own way of doing things don't you? Lol...