Who exactly is Piccolo Jr. to Piccolo Daimao?

[coola]

Goku and God said,that Piccolo Jr. is Piccolo Daimao himself {or rather "Part seperated from Piccolo Daimao"} When Piccolo Jr. reveal his true identity to Budokai viewers,he say "I'm new incarnation of Piccolo Daimao!" But later,he say "My father decided to left your hand,that move cost his life"
Is Piccolo Jr. is son of Piccolo Daimao? Or it is reborn Piccolo Daimao?
Sorry,if it sound little confusing,but i hope i write it right,dialogue is from Polish version of Manga,with i think is almost perfectly accurate to Japanese Manga

[CatouttaHell]

I always assumed he's a son and a reincarnation at once. There are a lot of differences in their personalities already at the first time he's seen.

[Michsi]

They are NOT one and the same person, that's for sure. You can say the name "Piccolo" is alomst like a title or a function in that respect, meaning it symbolizes the evil side of Kami which both Piccolos represented.

I think I've also heard the word "bunshin" used in the original japanese version, which if I'm not mistaken, means clone. Still they are father and son, they even refer to eathother as that.

[the_abberration]

These may not be the best examples, but here goes.

It's sort of like how Conner is to Supes. In some way he is a clone (at least partly of Superman) but he is younger and Superman could be a father (figure) to him. While at the same time he is Superman (again at least partly). All the while he still has his own personality.

Another example could be Shinzon from ST Nemesis. He's a clone of Picard, but is younger and Picard could be a father figure type. However, he has his own personality and actually ends up a villian in relation to Picard.

[TheGreatness25]

According to the Dragon Ball subtitles of the original Japanese version, Piccolo Jr. is Piccolo Daimao's "double."

[kaialone]

They are NOT one and the same person, that's for sure.

But they HAVE to be in some way otherwise God would have kicked the bucket

I always assumed he's a son and a reincarnation at once. There are a lot of differences in their personalities already at the first time he's seen.

I agree with you on the first part.But not the second.In the beginning (23rd Budokai Tenkaichi) they still seem quite similar,and I think the difference could be explained by Ma jr. younger physical age wich also affects the mental.

[Piccolo Daimao]

It's explained in the manga that Piccolo Junior is both the son and reincarnation of Piccolo Daimao. He's Daimao's son in that he gave birth to him, but he's his reincarnation in that Daimao packed his own life force in him, with some of the differences being that he's a Warrior-Type Namekian (rather than a Dragon Clan-Type Namekian) and he's less evil.

[Kiyza]

I think I've also heard the word "bunshin" used in the original japanese version, which if I'm not mistaken, means clone. Still they are father and son, they even refer to eathother as that.

I've seen it translated as "double" and "doppleganger" as well. It doesn't mean clone in a biological sense.

I've seen this question pop up quite a bit, and my general answer is, he's kind of both. It's difficult to explain, but he's a reincarnation in the sense that he appears to have the same soul, and thus God's still alive. But he's also a son in a biological sense. In addition to that, he also has a different personality.

I'd say it's something like if you died and were reincarnated, and kept your memories in the process. Oh, and the person you're being reincarnated as is your own son. I think that's probably the simplest way to put it.

[kaialone]

It's explained in the manga that Piccolo Junior is both the son and reincarnation of Piccolo Daimao. He's Daimao's son in that he gave birth to him, but he's his reincarnation in that Daimao packed his own life force in him, with some of the differences being that he's a Warrior-Type Namekian (rather than a Dragon Clan-Type Namekian) and he's less evil.

So Piccolo jr. really is a warrior-type? But does that thing...where he makes things out oft hin air like clothes and that hourglass in the Boo saga,I thought only dragon-types could do that :S

[rereboy]

Biologically, Piccolo Jr. is Piccolo Daimao`s son. Spiritually, he is Piccolo Daimao`s reincarnation with his memories intact.
Being biologically different is what explains why he is a warrior type, unlike his father.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Biologically, Piccolo Jr. is Piccolo Daimao`s son. Spiritually, he is Piccolo Daimao`s reincarnation with his memories intact.
Being biologically different is what explains why he is a warrior type, unlike his father.

Yeah, I like that. Biologically, he's Daimao's son. Spiritually, he's Daimao's reincarnation.

[Wobbuffet]

So that What If scenario that appeared on Supersonic Warriors was impossible, right?
Piccolo Daimaoh couldn't ever be brought to life again, since is soul is already being "used".

[kaialone]

So that What If scenario that appeared on Supersonic Warriors was impossible, right?
Piccolo Daimaoh couldn't ever be brought to life again, since is soul is already being "used".

pretty much,also that was a game.Though some what ifs are quite fun ,games are still non-canon (correct me if I'm wrong)

[Michsi]

I stick to my theory, I'm quite convinced that Piccolo Sr and Piccolo Jr. ARE not the same person. I explained in my first post what I believe the are BOTH "Piccolo", but different people.

Jr. contains the essence of the old Piccolo and therefore inherited the role of "the Evil side of Kami". That's why Kami didn't die when the old Piccolo blew up.
But to say the old Piccolo's soul is in his son is a bit too far fetched IMO. That's basically saying it's the same guy only in a different body, which I already stated, cannot be the case. We clearly see him maintaing his existence for few seconds after spitting out the egg and before exploding and even says " My son , avenge me ...." or something along those lines.

If you ask me the scenario in Supersonic Warriors is quite possible since I'm fairly convinced his father is somewhere in Hell.

[cpd12589]

I always assumed he's a son and a reincarnation at once. There are a lot of differences in their personalities already at the first time he's seen.

Yeah that's how I always seen it too. I mean King Piccolo did give birth to Piccolo Jr so he is his son but at the same time Kami didn't die so Piccolo Jr is also a reincarnation of King Piccolo. This would also make those times when Piccolo says "I'm getting too old for this" make sense. Since if he wasn't the reincarnation of King Piccolo he'd really only be just 4 years older than Gohan. Also he aged much faster than other Nameks like say Dende.

[Michsi]

I'm pretty sure "I'm getting to old for this" is a dub thing. I've never heard him say that in the japanese version or in the manga.

He doesn't age faster than namekians , he artificially sped up his child phase to get to adulthood faster for his fight against Goku.
After that he doesn't change much. Infact, he , Vegeta and Goku are the only ones that are stated by the author to not have changed at all at the end of the manga and I think it's safe to assume he has the longest natural life span.

He didn't inherite his fathers years aswell. He is still alive and well in DBO and only looks a little older.

[kaialone]

I always assumed he's a son and a reincarnation at once. There are a lot of differences in their personalities already at the first time he's seen.

I just recalled something wich made methink that the different personality isnt neccesairly a factor,since Oob is the reincarnation of Kid Boo and certainy doesnt act like him Or does he....

[Kiyza]

I'm pretty sure "I'm getting to old for this" is a dub thing. I've never heard him say that in the japanese version or in the manga.

Nor have I. It certainly sounds like a dub thing to me. It doesn't exactly make much sense consdering he's younger than most of the other characters, though it could just be that he's got a few hundred years of mental age working for that.

He doesn't age faster than namekians , he artificially sped up his child phase to get to adulthood faster for his fight against Goku.

Well, to be fair, we don't know whether or not that is the truth. I've always liked the theory that warrior-type Namekians just grow up faster than Dragon Clan ones, but that's just me.

He didn't inherite his fathers years aswell. He is still alive and well in DBO and only looks a little older.

For those arguing "Dragon Ball Online isn't canon!" at the very least, we know the character designs all have Mr. Toriyama's approval, so I'd take the idea he didn't age much 216 years after the series ended as fact. For those who are curious, I've posted this a few times, but here are the designs for him in the game.




The former is the character art, and not used as an in-game model, but pops up when you speak to him, like it does for every important character. The second is the actual model. Credit for these go to Citrinate and Pizzapie respectively.

[Michsi]

I agree with the idea that it might be a warrior type namekian thing (but mostly just toriyama who needed Piccolo to be an adult at that point ) but still that doesn't mean he ages faster. It's just those three years that were fast-forwarded.

Personally I'm in two minds about the canoncity of DBo since Toriyama also designed and approved some things for DBGt but let's get into that now.

However even before DBO I always believed Piccolo would live to be a couple of hundred years old. Tbh, I had actually hoped he'd live a whole lot longer meaning that after 216 years he'd still looked the same, without wrinkles and such. He's somewhere around 246 right now, if I calculated right.


A bit off topic here: You actually get to see meat him in the story ???? I thought you only met time patrol Trunks or the thir past selves in the missions. That's interesting...

[rereboy]

I just recalled something wich made methink that the different personality isnt neccesairly a factor,since Oob is the reincarnation of Kid Boo and certainy doesnt act like him Or does he....

Uub, despite having Buu`s soul, doesn`t have any of his memories. So, there is no reason for him to be evil just because he was Buu in his previous life.

Dragon Ball follows the idea that a soul, a person, is not automatically evil or good when that person is born. It just becomes good or evil as the person goes through life.

In that aspect, Buu is an exception, because thanks to Babidi`s father`s magic, he was born evil.
But when he was killed, his soul followed the rule of all souls. It was cleansed and his memories were erased to be reincarnated as another person, neither evil or good at the moment of birth.

Piccolo Daimao on the other hand didn`t have a normal reincarnation. His soul wasn`t cleansed and his memories weren`t erased. That is why Piccolo Jr was born evil.
But his reincarnation did change things. He was Piccolo Daimao but, at the same time, he was also his son. He was Piccolo Daimao and something else at the same time. That provided him enough "room" in his personality to be allowed to be influenced by Goku and Gohan`s kindness and good in general. And thus he eventually changed and became good.