Is it possible to wish away immortality?

[Piccolo Daimao]

Would it be possible to remove someone's immortality with a wish, or would it be impossible for Shenlong to do it since the immortal may be stronger than him and fundamentally change his being?

[B]

"Fundamentally change its being?" If that's what happens when you remove immortality, wouldn't that be the same as granting it?

So, the question really is, can Shenlong really grant immortality at all(or at least, grant it to those stronger than him), since we never see it happen outside of promotional work.

[Piccolo Daimao]

"Fundamentally change its being?" If that's what happens when you remove immortality, wouldn't that be the same as granting it?

So, the question really is, can Shenlong really grant immortality at all(or at least, grant it to those stronger than him), since we never see it happen outside of promotional work.

Well, say if it happened to Goku, it may not change the way he acts.

As for whether or not Shenlong can really grant immortality...I dunno. I mean, he wished Piccolo's youth back at least, which may've extended his lifespan.

[cpd12589]

I believe Shenron could remove immortality since he could grant it.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I believe Shenron could remove immortality since he could grant it.

Did you read this?

Can Shenlong really grant immortality at all (or at least, grant it to those stronger than him), since we never see it happen outside of promotional work.

And Shenlong has never granted immortality to anyone in the manga.

[cpd12589]

Yeah I guess in the manga he didn't grant anyone immortality but since Garlic Jr. got immortality(even though it's filler) and the Vegeta and Frieza wanted the Dragon Balls for that same purpose it leads me to believe it would be possible. I mean when Vegeta mentioned becoming immortal in front of Nail at Guru's place he didn't say that that would be impossible.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I mean when Vegeta mentioned becoming immortal in front of Nail at Guru's place he didn't say that that would be impossible.

Yeah, you're probably right. I mean, all the Namekians were afraid of Vegeta or Freeza getting immortality.

Although it would be funny if Vegeta finally got all the DBs, asked for immortality and Shenlong rejected it, causing him to have a massive tantrum and transform into a Super Saiyan.

[cpd12589]

Yeah that would've been funny.

It wouldn't make much sense to me if Shenron or Porunga couldn't grant immortality and the Nameks were letting themselves get killed over the Dragon Balls. I mean if they can't grant that wish then they should've just gave them the Dragon Balls instead of dying over them left and right. Like you said the Namekians clearly feared something.

[Bussani]

So, the question really is, can Shenlong really grant immortality at all(or at least, grant it to those stronger than him), since we never see it happen outside of promotional work.

I don't see why not. He can bring people stronger than him back to life, but can't kill them. Could be the same for granting/taking away immortality. But I guess the truth is that we just don't know.

[Kaboom]

Wasn't the exact nature of the rule that Shenlong can't affect being stronger than himself/his creator against their will? Hence why Goku could refuse to come back, and what-not. In that case, he wouldn't be able to grant or take away immortality unless the recipient wanted it that way.

[B]

Wait, they couldn't bring Goku back to life? I thought he told them not to do it, and everyone respected his wishes.

Of course, he had already been brought back to life to fight Vegeta, unless Dende's new balls nullified that.

[Fox666]

The thing about Shenlong not affecting beings stronger than his creator have never been given a properly explanation. He does affect them, like reviving and transporting (i.e. did the two things to Vegeta in Namek).

"Against their will" is a plausible explanation. If Freeza wished his would death, Porunga would be able to kill Freeza?

[Kaboom]

Wait, they couldn't bring Goku back to life? I thought he told them not to do it, and everyone respected his wishes.

Oops. I mean he refused to come back from Yardrat.

[Bussani]

Wait, they couldn't bring Goku back to life? I thought he told them not to do it, and everyone respected his wishes.

Shenlong couldn't revive him because he'd already done so once before, but everyone started thinking of ways around it (like "let's use Porunga!"), so Goku stepped in and told them not to. But Kaboom was talking about when Goku apparently refused their wish to return him to Earth at the end of the Freeza saga.

Kaio also apparently chose not to come back to life from the "restore those killed by Cell" wish; one could argue that he wouldn't be covered by that wish for whatever reason, but Goku literally says that he could have been brought back by the wish if he'd wanted to.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Kaio also apparently chose not to come back to life from the "restore those killed by Cell" wish; one could argue that he wouldn't be covered by that wish for whatever reason, but Goku literally says that he could have been brought back by the wish if he'd wanted to.

I always took that as a plot gaff. Kaio (and Bubbles, who remained dead too, for some reason) has no reason to remain dead, since he lives in the afterlife anyway.

[Bussani]

Kaio also apparently chose not to come back to life from the "restore those killed by Cell" wish; one could argue that he wouldn't be covered by that wish for whatever reason, but Goku literally says that he could have been brought back by the wish if he'd wanted to.

I always took that as a plot gaff. Kaio (and Bubbles, who remained dead too, for some reason) has no reason to remain dead, since he lives in the afterlife anyway.

True, but that doesn't change the fact that Goku says he could have come back from the wish, but chose not to. Maybe he just wanted a vacation from his job. In fact, it raises the question of whether a new North Kaio would be chosen now that the original has died. If Kaio had come back to life, would he be allowed to go with Goku and show him around the rest of the afterlife, or would he be obligated to go back to his post? I dunno.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Kaio also apparently chose not to come back to life from the "restore those killed by Cell" wish; one could argue that he wouldn't be covered by that wish for whatever reason, but Goku literally says that he could have been brought back by the wish if he'd wanted to.

I always took that as a plot gaff. Kaio (and Bubbles, who remained dead too, for some reason) has no reason to remain dead, since he lives in the afterlife anyway.

True, but that doesn't change the fact that Goku says he could have come back from the wish, but chose not to. Maybe he just wanted a vacation from his job. In fact, it raises the question of whether a new North Kaio would be chosen now that the original has died. If Kaio had come back to life, would he be allowed to go with Goku and show him around the rest of the afterlife, or would he be obligated to go back to his post? I dunno.

I just write it off, really. It doesn't make a lick of sense for Shenlong to be unable to wish him back to life, when he's done so for the God of Earth and strong people like Goku, Piccolo and Kuririn, sometimes even against their will. I don't recall anyone asking Kuririn, Kame-sennin or Chaozu if they wanted to come back to life. Although they were weaker than God at the time, and by extension Shenlong...

But, although this is a different dragon with different rules, I just thought it'd be worth pointing it out--Porunga wished back Vegeta, the Namekians and everyone else who'd been killed by Freeza and his gang without their permission.

And I don't think that a new North Kaio would be chosen because the original had died, since North Kaio's still in the afterlife and, even though he doesn't have a planet of his own, I'm sure he still does his job.