Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Senzu_Bean]

Trunks was surprised that Vegeta was going to go to Grade 2 already. He said, "He's going to do it already! He's going to transform into it!"

Trunks could very well be referring to the fact they don't know how strong Cell really is now and emphasizing how Vegeta isn't even going to try his chance with Super Saiyan.

I think that's a stretch. Besides, if they don't know how strong Cell is now, wouldn't the best strategy be to go to Grade 2 rather than risk getting killed before he can even use his full power? As we saw, second form Cell hadn't even shown his full power until Super Vegeta was smoking him.

I don't think that is a bigger stretch than Super Saiyan being on pair with Cell. But that is just me. Going above Super Saiyan isn't exactly something easy seeing how it is treated so Trunks might be surprised how Vegeta isn't even going to try Super Saiyan on Cell first. It isn't like Cell would kill him instantly or something.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Trunks could very well be referring to the fact they don't know how strong Cell really is now and emphasizing how Vegeta isn't even going to try his chance with Super Saiyan.

I think that's a stretch. Besides, if they don't know how strong Cell is now, wouldn't the best strategy be to go to Grade 2 rather than risk getting killed before he can even use his full power? As we saw, second form Cell hadn't even shown his full power until Super Vegeta was smoking him.

I don't think that is a bigger stretch than Super Saiyan being on pair with Cell. But that is just me. Going above Super Saiyan isn't exactly something easy seeing how it is treated so Trunks might be surprised how Vegeta isn't even going to try Super Saiyan on Cell first. It isn't like Cell would kill him instantly or something.

And again, Cell hadn't even shown his full power yet and, to me, Trunks' statement implies that Super Saiyan Vegeta is at least on par with a suppressed Cell. If Cell was way stronger than SSj Vegeta, then Trunks wouldn't have any reason to make that statement.

And like I said, if they don't know how strong Cell is, the best strategy would be to ascend Super Saiyan. Even if Cell wouldn't kill him instantly, it wouldn't be wise to take the risk and potentially recieve heavy damage when you've still got another level of power in the bag.

And I don't see how going beyond Super Saiyan being difficult would matter here. It's not as if it hurts Vegeta's body like Kaio-Ken or anything.

[Senzu_Bean]

Okay, there is really no reason to argue about this. You think that way, I think this way. Period!

[Piccolo Daimao]

Ok then.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Sorry for double-posting, but I wanted to put up my Movie 3 battle power list. OK, here we go!


MOVIE 3 – SUPER DECIDING BATTLE FOR THE ENTIRE PLANET EARTH

Son Goku – 34,000
(Kaio-Ken)- 68,000
(Kaio-Ken x10)- 340,000

(Goku was stated by Tullece to have a battle power of "30,000 and rising".)

Son Gohan – 10,000
(Ôzaru)- 100,000
(Naked)- 4

Piccolo – 18,000
(Makankosappo)- hot and spicy

Big Green - Let that child alone.

Biggy Green Smalls - 180,000

Kuririn – 7,500

Yamcha – 6,500

Tenshinhan – 8,000

Chaozu – 5,000

Haiya Dragon - 20,000

Chi-Chi (suppressed) - 130
(Super-Mama)- 200,000,000
(Naked)- incalculable

(As stated by Kame-sennin, the strongest in the universe is Super Saiyan Son Goku's wife.)

Rezun – 8,250
Rakasei – 8,250
Cacao – 8,750
Amond – 9,500
(almond form)- 10
Daiz – 9,000
(off-screen, raping Rudolph)- 7,000

(All stronger than the Z-Warriors, as they were able to beat them so easily.)

Tullece – 34,000
(with Piccolo-like cape)- 1,000,000
(Fruit 1)- 400,000
(Fruit 2)- 650,000

(During their short scuffle, Tullece was about even with Goku. But after he ate the fruit, he beat down KKx10 Goku effortlessly.)

[p123]

@ Sensu


Piccolo's right here... If they couldn't sense Cell, the most logical thing to do would be to transform. Vegeta learned the transformation in 2 months, and trained more than 10 months on top of that with the new transformation. It's not like this is Kaioken or anything like he said, and there should be no problems transforming..


Not to mention that Goku and Gohan are able to feel Initial Semi Cell and SSJ Vegeta's power, and if Goku/Gohan can sense Cell, why the hell couldn't Trunks or Vegeta.


I think your bias is showing for this point here Sensu.. Nothing suggests that Cell can't be sensed, the only thing implied is Vegeta as a SSJ is in Initial Semi Cell's general range of power.

Why that bothers you? I don't know, but it shouldn't.

[Fox666]

And I don't see how going beyond Super Saiyan being difficult would matter here. It's not as if it hurts Vegeta's body like Kaio-Ken or anything.

It waste energy, don't?

[p123]

But you must know that that POV has no basis behind it.. It's implied SSJ Vegeta is around Initial Semi Cell's power. Why do people take issue with that? Vegeta simply transformed because he has no care to fight on equal terms, and has never shown to be on of these fighters who likes to suppress for no apparent reason.

The only times he does is vs Goku Round 1, when he is a major villian, which changes things drastically. His role is different here.

And once again against Kiwi, only for a couple of seconds and doesn't even attempt to fight as equals with Kiwi either.. He just wants to show off his suppression power. Ah, Vegeta appears to do this as well against Jeice, but yet again for a split second just to rub in his newfound suppression skills.


Vegeta is a real meathead, he wants to go full blast from the getgo, he's not like the others..

[Fox666]

I don't think anything is implied about Vegeta SSJ power. Trunks words are simply a plot device to show how increadible SSJ Stage 2 is.

It's like Goku's Kaio-ken. He always goes "OMG I need to use Kaio-ken" and he is nowhere the power of his opponents if he don't use the Kaio-ken.

[p123]

I don't think anything is implied about Vegeta SSJ power. Trunks words are simply a plot device to show how increadible SSJ Stage 2 is.

Er Trunks doesn't think he needs to go USSJ yet. That implies SSJ Vegeta ~ Cell. Why do you not like it? I don't get what your issue is here, it's apparently as plain as day?

It's like Goku's Kaio-ken. He always goes "OMG I need to use Kaio-ken" and he is nowhere the power of his opponents if he don't use the Kaio-ken

Exactly why this situation is different. Generally people transform or up their power because they have to , this situation is plainly different with Trunks statement..

But you probably think Base Vegetto >= Buuhan by a reversal of logic as well. Stick to one type of POV damit!

[Kaboom]

Wouldn't Vegeta using SSjG2 right away possibly imply that he, Vegeta, thinks he does need it? It could go either way.

[dbgtFO]

Wouldn't Vegeta using SSjG2 right away possibly imply that he, Vegeta, thinks he does need it? It could go either way.

No! that would also imply that base Vegetto is inferior to Buuhan and we can't have that you know

If Vegetto really is VegetaxGoku, then I explain him going Super Saiyan simply being a precaution, because he has just been formed and doesn't know the depths of his power, which he also admits after having owned Buu a little.

[p123]

The thing is Kaboom, is Vegeta's mentality. He's not one to fight at a suppressed level , he generally goes all out from the get go. Vegeta could plausibly transformed into USSJ and have been Semi Cell's equal as a SSJ, that would actually fit his character.

Trunks implying that Vegeta had no need to transform immeditaley should hold more weight that Vegeta transforming anyhow seeing how Vegeta's character could be...

Even so, nothing contradicts Trunks POV, and although he might not be the most accurate, if nothing conradicts his statements they should be true.

Nothing really suggests that Trunks improperly read Cell/Vegeta's ki, hell even Goku/Gohan are able to sense both of their ki's from the lookout, which would lend Trunks even more credit if anything.

So there has to be another option...

Trunks implies SSJ Vegeta ~ Initial Semi Cell, and is not contradicted, so therefore we must explain why Vegeta transformed even though he was equal, not that Vegeta transformed because he wasn't equal. You know what I mean?

[Senzu_Bean]

If Vegetto really is VegetaxGoku, then I explain him going Super Saiyan simply being a precaution, because he has just been formed and doesn't know the depths of his power, which he also admits after having owned Buu a little.

Vegetto can be Vegeta x Goku and still need Super Saiyan to defeat Buu. Heck, I think Vegetto is weaker than every Super Saiyan and still Vegeta x Goku.

Trunks implying that Vegeta had no need to transform immeditaley should hold more weight that Vegeta transforming anyhow seeing how Vegeta's character could be...

Trunks never says such thing.

[dbgtFO]

If Vegetto really is VegetaxGoku, then I explain him going Super Saiyan simply being a precaution, because he has just been formed and doesn't know the depths of his power, which he also admits after having owned Buu a little.

Vegetto can be Vegeta x Goku and still need Super Saiyan to defeat Buu. Heck, I think Vegetto is weaker than every Super Saiyan and still Vegeta x Goku.

If you ever make a list your power levels must be way above trillions then.
To put that line of thought in numbers.

Base Vegetto at the very least = 3.000.000*1.000.000(Since Daizenshuu doesn't give a level for Vegeta vs. True Form Freeza, going by the manga he is at least 1 million).

Base Vegetto = 3.000.000.000.000.
This would make SSJ 3 Goku have a level way above 24.000.000.000.000.
While Buuhan would be way above(if absorbing humans of the lower realm only adds to his power)48.000.000.000.000.
Super Vegetto would then be way above 150.000.000.000.000.

[Senzu_Bean]

If Vegetto really is VegetaxGoku, then I explain him going Super Saiyan simply being a precaution, because he has just been formed and doesn't know the depths of his power, which he also admits after having owned Buu a little.

Vegetto can be Vegeta x Goku and still need Super Saiyan to defeat Buu. Heck, I think Vegetto is weaker than every Super Saiyan and still Vegeta x Goku.

If you ever make a list your power levels must be way above trillions then.

What?!

[p123]

Trunks never says such thing.

Trunks is suprised that Vegeta is transforming already. If Vegeta was way weaker than Cell, there would be no need for Trunks to be suprised, it would be common sense for Vegeta to transform against a foe his superior. Trunks suprise implies that Vegeta did not need to transform to combat Cell, which means that Cell and SSJ Vegeta should be on par with each other.

It's not that hard really...

[Rocketman]

Vegetto can be Vegeta x Goku and still need Super Saiyan to defeat Buu. Heck, I think Vegetto is weaker than every Super Saiyan and still Vegeta x Goku.

...you think Vegetto is weaker than SS Goten?

[dbgtFO]

If you ever make a list your power levels must be way above trillions then.

What?!

Aren't you talking about Vegetto's battle power being equal to Vegeta's battle power*Goku's battle power?
If so your battle powers are by default obscenely large(since you say that base Vegetto is weaker than every Super Saiya-jin and Vegetto can't be anything less than 3 trillion).

[Senzu_Bean]

Trunks never says such thing.

Trunks is suprised that Vegeta is transforming already. If Vegeta was way weaker than Cell, there would be no need for Trunks to be suprised, it would be common sense for Vegeta to transform against a foe his superior. Trunks suprise implies that Vegeta did not need to transform to combat Cell, which means that Cell and SSJ Vegeta should be on par with each other.

It's not that hard really...

It isn't the only option available though.

Vegetto can be Vegeta x Goku and still need Super Saiyan to defeat Buu. Heck, I think Vegetto is weaker than every Super Saiyan and still Vegeta x Goku.

...you think Vegetto is weaker than SS Goten?

Yep and weaker than Freeza too.

If you ever make a list your power levels must be way above trillions then.

What?!

Aren't you talking about Vegetto's battle power being equal to Vegeta's battle power*Goku's battle power?
If so your battle powers are by default obscenely large(since you say that base Vegetto is weaker than every Super Saiya-jin and Vegetto can't be anything less than 3 trillion).

Vegeta x Goku, not Vegeta's battle power x Goku's battle power. Battle powers aren't used no more at that time.