Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

[JJ94]

Salagir says

The weapon Naurb was about to tell about could defeat Broly, indeed.

So this guy could do some damage.

[Son Edo]

Dammit, Boo has to fight the Strongest in the Tournament.

[Fox666]

Because the sun is powerful enough to make him drop out of LSSJ.

I don't know that. All I know is this:

http://www.dragonball-multiverse.com/en/page-261.html
"Fallen in the sun, Broly untransformed and died instantly."

You see, it's mentioned that he untransformed before diying, in other words, if he is in the LSSJ state not even the sun can kill him.


Either way, Broly's incendibility was quite a clever plot device. The movies doesn't make much sense and Broly is weak.

[Heatth]

Well, Vegetto loves a good fight. He was excited, and think: in his universe, no one can defeat him, but he has Goku and Vegeta in him. He'd be dying for a good fight by now.

Sure, but he still have to end the fight at some time. He opted by doing so transforming in SSJ3. If he could have won just cutting Broly in half why haven't he done so? Wouldn't it be more fast, safer and less tiresome? Broly is said to be absolutelly inderstrutible and I don't see why we should open a exception.

I just meant to say that the rest of their arsenal may very well work kind of like Tidar`s blade, even if they don`t cut their opponents. In other words, their arsenal is probably deadly even to much stronger opponents. Which would explain their confidence.

As I said, I think that would be just unimaginative. "To defeat a powerful oponnent we just need to beat him ever harder, LOL". Now Salagir stated that said weapon can defeat Broly I am pretty sure it is not similar to Tidar's (since Broly is logically invulnerable to that too). It is something more original and, hopefully, more cooler.

As for Kienzan, it was never shown to fail cutting something or someone in the manga and it was shown cutting opponents much, much stronger than the user of the technique (example: Freeza VS Krillin).
So, its perfectly logical to believe that, if not avoided, it can cut anything. There is nothing to suggest the contrary in the manga. You might not agree, but there is no more evidence of the contrary so you can`t really criticize someone for believing that. Its a perfectly reasonable belief/opinion on the Kienzan.

I understand. I am just saying you can't be sure. It was also never stated the Kienzan can cut trough anything. Just because it has not failed, it doesn't mean it is failproof. I mean, when it was the last time Kuririn used it? Against Freeza, I believe, right? Why should we assume, with 100% certainty, said attack would work in the much powerful Cell, or even the Androids? Or, more important for our discussion, the said indestructible Legendary Super Sayajin Broly?

Don't get me wrong, I am not criticizing you for believe it would work even on, say, Buu or Dabra. I am, however, for insisting it would on Broly, who is, by all exposition and evidence, absolutely invulnerable. About he dieing in the Sun, it was stated he had o untransform for such thing to happen. And that he just untransformed because he was shocked, as in too much surprised he was just thrown in a freaking star. Kienzan would not accomplish the same. It would just bounce back like all other attacks.

But, for Vegetto to choose using it... No way. He would never do that... He never had an opponent worthy of him before, capable of making him push his powers... Vegetto would never let anything stop him from enjoying his fight with Broly to the fullest, no matter what. That is why he took his time before going SSJ2. Vegetto is just as selfish in that regard as Goku and Vegeta were, if not more.

He took time to go SSJ2. And he took time before finishing Broly. But, again, he still have to finish him at some point. And he decided by the much more uncertain and unsafe method. Giving how quick he was to react, I am pretty sure he was aware from the start of Buu's plan to absorbing the guy.

[Senzu_Bean]

Salagir just made his story even more interesting by adding guys that possess technology powerful enough to destroy Broly. I mean, Broly was basically a major threat for everybody but Vegetto. And now some guys say they could have defeated him easily? That is huge!

And the Makankosappo also never failed the few times it was used, but nobody is going to assume it is going to work against Cell or this Broly.

[rereboy]

And the Makankosappo also never failed the few times it was used, but nobody is going to assume it is going to work against Cell or this Broly.

I understand your reasoning but it was never shown to work against someone vastly stronger either. The only time it worked, Piccolo increased his power level to a power superior to that of Raditz.

[Senzu_Bean]

It wasn't exactly superior to Raditz's power but whatever. I understand your logic, but I don't agree with it.

[rereboy]

Well, it depends on if you agree with the daizenshuu on Raditz`s power level or not.

Because the sun is powerful enough to make him drop out of LSSJ.

I don't know that. All I know is this:

http://www.dragonball-multiverse.com/en/page-261.html
"Fallen in the sun, Broly untransformed and died instantly."

You see, it's mentioned that he untransformed before diying, in other words, if he is in the LSSJ state not even the sun can kill him.


Either way, Broly's incendibility was quite a clever plot device. The movies doesn't make much sense and Broly is weak.

Salagir has already stated the "rules" of LSSJ on the comments of page 160.

Here is a portion of what he said:

"- In LSSJ, he got white eyes, huge muscles and green aura. He is totally blinded with rage and seeks only violence.
- In LSSJ, this Saiyan turns indestructible: attacks just don't hurt him. He can be pushed away, but not harmed.
- In LSSJ, the power of this Saiyan grows constantly.
- When turned into LSSJ, this Saiyan won't get back to normal except in case a great shock.
- When turned into LSSJ, the lifetime of the Saiyan drops dramatically. But this weakness keeps getting less present on each generation."

As you can see, there are things that can shock Broly out of LSSJ and falling into the awesome power of the sun is one of them. So, in one moment, the sun caused him to drop out of LSSJ, and in the next moment, it obliterated him.
Could a special attack work, shock him out of LSSJ and cut him? We just don`t know.

[Heatth]

I understand your reasoning but it was never shown to work against someone vastly stronger either. The only time it worked, Piccolo increased his power level to a power superior to that of Raditz.

And maybe, just maybe, Kuririn did the same against Nappa and Freeza? I mean, no one had a scouter at the time so it is possible.

Could a special attack work, shock him out of LSSJ and cut him? We just don`t know.

Naturally. However, by that logic, any attack could work. It has nothing to do with the cutting properties of Kiezan. If Pan punch him and, by some reason, he becomes shocked enough to untransform, he may be defeated. I understand we agreed, then, that the Kiezan just can't cut Broly unless he untransform?

[rereboy]

I understand your reasoning but it was never shown to work against someone vastly stronger either. The only time it worked, Piccolo increased his power level to a power superior to that of Raditz.

And maybe, just maybe, Kuririn did the same against Nappa and Freeza? I mean, no one had a scouter at the time so it is possible.

Could a special attack work, shock him out of LSSJ and cut him? We just don`t know.

Naturally. However, by that logic, any attack could work. It has nothing to do with the cutting properties of Kiezan. If Pan punch him and, by some reason, he becomes shocked enough to untransform, he may be defeated. I understand we agreed, then, that the Kiezan just can't cut Broly unless he untransform?

What...? What you just said doesn`t make any sense... At all.

Are you trying to say that its possible for Krillin to have increase his power level to over a million when he was fighting Freeza on Namek...? That is just ridiculous... You can`t be serious...

And no, not any attack would work on Broly. The vast majority of attacks, pretty much all attacks, would fail. Like Salagir said, the attacks wouldn`t hurt him. However, Kienzan is the only attack on DB that is often used and that seems to be effective despite the opponent`s power. Pretty much all the other attacks depended greatly on the opponent`s power for the attack to be effective. Kienzan does not. It seems to be able to cut anything. Therefore, Kienzan doesn`t follow the rules of the other attacks at all. And that special characteristic is enough to make me wonder if it would work on Broly or not, without immediately discarding the idea, like you are doing.

Kienzan, in my mind, its like the devilmite beam. The beam used by this guy:



The devilmite beam just seems to require the opponent to have evil in his heart to be effective. By principle, it wouldn`t matter how strong the opponent is. When hit with the beam, the opponent`s evil just begins to inflate until the opponent explodes.

Kienzan seems to be like that, independent of power. The only difference is that Kienzan was shown or implied to be effective against way more powerful opponents more times than the devilmite beam.

So, to me, asking if Kienzan would be effective against Broly in his LSSJ is like asking if the devilmite beam would be effective against Broly in his LSSJ. They are special enough to work... Or maybe not. We just don`t know.

And of course, we are talking about DBM Broly here. Toei Broly, the one from the movies, if hit with a Kienzan or the Devilmite Beam, would definitely die.

[Senzu_Bean]

Toei Broly, the one from the movies, if hit with a Kienzan or the Devilmite Beam, would definitely die.

Cell didn't die so I can see Krillin's Kienzan be completely destroyed when in contact with Broly.

[rereboy]

Toei Broly, the one from the movies, if hit with a Kienzan or the Devilmite Beam, would definitely die.

Cell didn't die so I can see Krillin's Kienzan be completely destroyed when in contact with Broly.

Well, that`s filler. But since Broly is also filler, point taken.

I`ll rephrase my opinion:

In the anime, if Broly was hit with a Kienzan, Broly would probably resist it since Cell did so in filler.

In the manga, if Broly existed there somehow, there is nothing to suggest that he could resist it since the Kienzan never failed in the manga, so he would probably die.

In DBM, with this extremely altered LSSJ Broly and his protection, who knows... If Salagir goes by the anime logic on this one, it definitely wouldn`t work. If he goes by the manga logic on this one, it all depends on how he believes the LSSJ protection behaves against a Kienzan.

[Rocketman]

If he goes by the manga logic on this one, it all depends on how he believes the LSSJ protection behaves against a Kienzan.

He made Broly able to fight Vegetto. The Kienzan would shatter, reform, then fly back and slice Krillin's dick off, which would then become sentient and sing praises to Lord Broly for freeing it from a fool so foolish as to attack Him.

[rereboy]

If he goes by the manga logic on this one, it all depends on how he believes the LSSJ protection behaves against a Kienzan.

He made Broly able to fight Vegetto. The Kienzan would shatter, reform, then fly back and slice Krillin's dick off, which would then become sentient and sing praises to Lord Broly for freeing it from a fool so foolish as to attack Him.

Well, he either thinks it would work or he thinks it wouldn`t work.

I just don`t believe he was clear on the subject since he stated that "attacks just don't hurt" Broly when he is in his LSSJ but then he showed us that a big enough one, or a special enough one, like a Genki Dama followed by the implosion of a giant comet, can defeat him and make him drop out of LSSJ. Therefore, not all attacks in existence would fail against him.

[dbgtFO]

Toei Broly, the one from the movies, if hit with a Kienzan or the Devilmite Beam, would definitely die.

Cell didn't die so I can see Krillin's Kienzan be completely destroyed when in contact with Broly.

According to the Daizenshuu's entry on Krillin's Rapid Fire Kienzans:
"Those hit by this attack would be cut to ribbons."
So it seems that manga wise Kienzan really is a haxxed technique, since it works on everyone apparently.

@the new page.
Gohan in the 6th panel reminded me of Kanye West with his "I'm happy for you, but" quote.

"I'm really happy for you and imma let you finish, but you're going to get freaking owned by Boo".


Seriously, he will. That armour will do nothing.

Exactly

[Senzu_Bean]

So it seems that manga wise Kienzan really is a haxxed technique, since it works on everyone apparently.

Not really, since "If the Kienzan had hit Nappa, perhaps even he would have been cut in two".

[Rocketman]

I want this guy to kill Buu.

[dbgtFO]

So it seems that manga wise Kienzan really is a haxxed technique, since it works on everyone apparently.

Not really, since "If the Kienzan had hit Nappa, perhaps even he would have been cut in two".

Well that doesn't mean much considering we saw the kienzan's effectiveness against a much stronger opponent anyways(Freeza, who by that point was over 10 times stronger than our bald friend compared to Nappa who was a little more than 2 times stronger, than Krillin).

[Senzu_Bean]

The Kienzan cut Freeza's tail... and he was distracted. Krillin's punch also damaged Nappa's face... when he was distracted.

[TonyTheTiger]

He'll probably have the power to utterly annihilate Buu but what's going to get him is Buu's crazy regeneration. He probably doesn't have anything to destroy Buu on that kind of atomic level.