Android question

[Demi]

If Androids #17, #18 and #20 were humans which were given robotic parts, does that mean Androids #8, #19, #13, #14, #15 and #16 also used to be fully human?

[VegettoEX]

If Androids #17, #18 and #20 were humans which were given robotic parts, does that mean Androids #8, #19, #13, #14, #15 and #16 also used to be fully human?

No. It's very well stated in the series that #16 and #19 were "made from nothing"; they were pure "androids" in the literal sense that they are flat-out machines.

#20 (Dr. Gero) is technically just his brain put into a fully robotic body. For the most part, he doesn't even really consider himself Dr. Gero, anymore.

We don't know jack about #13, #14, and #15. From the little dude's head popping off with all the wires inside, it's probably pretty safe to say that he was fully robot. Possibly the same for the big guy after Trunks slices through him, but nothing definite.

Me thinks someone needs to read Maggie's editorial, and this old thread on the FUNimation forums where I go into MUCH more detail. Ah, what the Hell... I'll just quote myself.

The following is something I've got written to answer a question on my site, so this is just really easy to copy and paste...

Let's just toss the word "android" out the window; it's not that it's completely irrelevant, it's that it's not entirely accurate and further complicates matters. Let's look at the word, jinzôningen, and break it down character-by-character:

人造人間

* 人造 = jinzô = artificial
* 人間 = ningen = human being

Quite literally, what we get is "artificial human being". Now, this carries a very broad meaning. Just how do you define what an "artificial human" is? Android, cyborg, robot, mechanical person... just what is it?

(Forgive me for using Viz translations in the following, but since we don't have any problems with these particular translations, we'll use them with no issue.)

In chapter (still need to find it...), #18 states:

"We HATED Gero for turning us into (jinzôningen)!"

Later on in chapter (still need to find it...), taking a look through their blueprints, Bulma states:

"I'll have to check, but these few cybernetic parts might be the key to their weakness... I guess that's why this Cell figures it can fuse with them... They're based on human bodies... enhanced almost entirely with bio-organic components..."

Now let's take a look at a few dictionary definitions for terms we keep throwing around (namely robot, android, & cyborg), all from Merriam-Webster's Online dictionary.

robot
Pronunciation: 'rO-"bät, -b&t
Function: noun
Etymology: Czech, from robota compulsory labor; akin to Old High German arabeit trouble, Latin orbus orphaned
1 a : a machine that looks like a human being and performs various complex acts (as walking or talking) of a human being; also : a similar but fictional machine whose lack of capacity for human emotions is often emphasized b : an efficient insensitive person who functions automatically
2 : a device that automatically performs complicated often repetitive tasks
3 : a mechanism guided by automatic controls

android
Pronunciation: 'an-"droid
Function: noun
Etymology: Late Greek androeidEs manlike, from Greek andr- + -oeidEs -oid
: a mobile robot usually with a human form

cyborg
Pronunciation: 'sI-"borg
Function: noun
Etymology: cybernetic + organism
: a bionic human

So how would we classify the various jinzôningen? By now, it should be quite simple.

#16 is, flat-out, an "android." As he states, he was made "from nothing," and is completely built from the ground up with absolutely no human parts. He is a robot with human form; an "android". He seems to have "emotions" (which Gero seems to have classified as merely faulty programming resulting in failed initiatives, but we'll leave that up to you)... but without debate, he is completely robotic.

#17 & #18 are, without challenge, cyborgs. They were originally human, and "enhanced" in such a way that they are no longer mere humans; they have advanced beyond that to be something entirely different. They have feelings, they have thoughts, they have desires, they have hopes, and in the case of #18, they have a family.

We don't know exactly what parts were "enhanced" and in what way, but we know what we know. You may be interested in knowing that in many countries, they are referred to as "C17" and "C18" (with the "C" obviously standing for "cyborg"; of course, #16 also gets referred to as "C16" which totally ruins it, but whatever ^_~).

Long story short, #18 was originally human, and apparently still contained the necessary human parts to procreate. The use of "android" by FUNimation and Viz is unfortunate, but understandable at the same time. Thankfully Viz at least made notes time and time again to say "Technically, #17 & #18 are cyborgs"... so good on them.

Some additional good reading would be number18's "Cyborg or Android?" article, and just for the sake of advancing your intellectual understanding and theory, Donna Harraway's "Cyborg Manifesto."

--http://www.lovelycyborg.com/misconceptions.shtml

--http://www.stanford.edu/dept/HPS/Harawa ... festo.html

Hopefully that answers everything .

[Demi]

Yes thank you. Well, all except Android 8, but with the scars on his face, i'll asume he is also a Cyborg.

[Sun_Wukong]

I thought it was mentioned that #8 was made from scratch. With that whole Dr. Frappe confusion.

[tealsmith]

I thought it was mentioned that #8 was made from scratch. With that whole Dr. Frappe confusion.

As far as I remember, it's mentioned that #8 is more or less cybornetically enhanced re-animated corpse. General White said something along the lines of -

"Who dug through the graveyard in the middle of a rainstorm to find just the right parts!?"

[kenisu3000]

I thought it was mentioned that #8 was made from scratch. With that whole Dr. Frappe confusion.

As far as I remember, it's mentioned that #8 is more or less cybornetically enhanced re-animated corpse. General White said something along the lines of -

"Who dug through the graveyard in the middle of a rainstorm to find just the right parts!?"

Whoa. Is that line in the manga? I gotta check this out...

[Domon]

I thought it was mentioned that #8 was made from scratch. With that whole Dr. Frappe confusion.

As far as I remember, it's mentioned that #8 is more or less cybornetically enhanced re-animated corpse. General White said something along the lines of -

"Who dug through the graveyard in the middle of a rainstorm to find just the right parts!?"

Whoa. Is that line in the manga? I gotta check this out...

The manga (in the Viz version, at least) never says anything about where Number 8 came from. The anime had that line during the scene where Goku and 8 confronts White.

[Super Sonic]

I thought it was mentioned that #8 was made from scratch. With that whole Dr. Frappe confusion.

As far as I remember, it's mentioned that #8 is more or less cybornetically enhanced re-animated corpse. General White said something along the lines of -

"Who dug through the graveyard in the middle of a rainstorm to find just the right parts!?"

Whoa. Is that line in the manga? I gotta check this out...

That line isn't in the English translated manga. I don't own the Japanese original, not that it would hilp me tell you anyways. (Can't read Japanese).

[tealsmith]

Like Domon said, the line's from the anime, and it can be considered filler (especially since #8 certainly doesn't look like he was pieced together from different people's parts, but instead the same person). I wasn't aware the line wasn't in the manga, as I haven't had the pleasure of reading any pre-Raditz issues.

[Dayspring]

Er...that's how the actual Frankenstein was made. Not #8.

[SaiyaJedi]

Er...that's how the actual Frankenstein was made. Not #8.

The actual Frankenstein was born to two ordinary human parents, down Switzerland way. He became interested in alchemy, studied science in college, and then proceeded to play God in the most irresponsible manner possible. His creation doesn't really have a name, except for perhaps "The Monster".

[*PINHEAD*]

Yeah, Frankenstein's often mixed up with his Monster.

I also had thought that #8 was made from other parts, sort of like a cyborg. And I hadn't watched the anime. Hmm...

[Demi]

#18 looks awesome in the 10th aniversery special. =P

[Super Sonic]

#18 looks awesome in the 10th aniversery special. =P

18 wasn't in the 10th anniversary special. 8-Man/Eighter/Hachan was though.

[Demi]

Typo.

[Oniishin]

I just thought of something about Android #8. I hope this isn't too off topic, but do you think #8 could have been the start of the monster theme that appeared in Baba's tournament? Just a wierd thought I had.

[Victator Supreme]

I always wondered why Gero, made his android body look like an old man.

[Son Goku]

I always wondered why Gero, made his android body look like an old man.

Well, he was an old man, and since he modled the artificial body after his human body, it looked old as well.

[*PINHEAD*]

Mmm...interesting question. I never thought of that. I mean, since the only intact part of his body left was his brain, he could've easily made himself look younger. Maybe he based his android body on his aged human body.

Or there's no actual reason at all and it's just the way Toriyama designed him to show the reader that he's the old geezer behind the Red Ribbon Army.

[SDHero]

Mmm...interesting question. I never thought of that. I mean, since the only intact part of his body left was his brain, he could've easily made himself look younger. Maybe he based his android body on his aged human body.

Or there's no actual reason at all and it's just the way Toriyama designed him to show the reader that he's the old geezer behind the Red Ribbon Army.

Actually, Dr. Gero MUST have based his android body on his real one, since Bulma recognizes him on sight

As for WHY he would do such a thing, there is no explanation especially since #20 doesn't seem to fully consider himself the same as Dr. Gero.