Most poorly written part of Dragon Ball

[Piccolo Daimao]

What do you think is the most poorly written part of Dragon Ball?

I've seen the Bobbodi's ship portion frequently nominated as the most poorly written part of Dragon Ball. I don't quite know why, though.

[dbgtFO]

I've seen the Bobbodi's ship portion frequently nominated as the most poorly written part of Dragon Ball. I don't quite know why, though.

Did you just decide to list that one because I bashed it in your Dabra thread?

But yeah the Babidi's Spaceship was one of the most, if not the most poorly written part of the story.
The fights are far from satisfactory(not getting the full fight of Dabra vs. Gohan and Goku vs. Vegeta being ridiculously short).
Some strength statements are also quite controversial(base Saiyans implied to be beyond Piccolo, Dabra comparable to Cell).
And making Kaioshin look like a moron in the sense of being afraid of opponents, when he has Super Saiyan 2 Gohan right next to him, even going as far as stating, he didn't count on the Saiyans being that powerful, when Vegeta killed Pui Pui, which makes it look like Base Vegeta is way beyond SSJ 2 Gohan.
One of the only good things is Vegeta's character development, which seemed to be where AT was headed all along.

[Senzu_Bean]

Pretty much the whole near-death powered-up deal on Namek.

[sbk]

I too wanted Dabura vs Gohan and Goku vs Vegeta to finish. It was definately rushed and unsatisfactory. But I don't think it's the worst written part.

IMO the most poorly written part is when Goku first says something like "I can't beat Majin Boo, Vegeta gave all he had, and there wasn't any difference in power between me and Vegeta" and than he goes SSJ3 few episodes later.. and then some episodes later says he could've defeated Fat Buu after all. Too many contradicting plot twists

[Piccolo Daimao]

I've seen the Bobbodi's ship portion frequently nominated as the most poorly written part of Dragon Ball. I don't quite know why, though.

Did you just decide to list that one because I bashed it in your Dabra thread?

But yeah the Babidi's Spaceship was one of the most, if not the most poorly written part of the story.
The fights are far from satisfactory(not getting the full fight of Dabra vs. Gohan and Goku vs. Vegeta being ridiculously short).
Some strength statements are also quite controversial(base Saiyans implied to be beyond Piccolo, Dabra comparable to Cell).
And making Kaioshin look like a moron in the sense of being afraid of opponents, when he has Super Saiyan 2 Gohan right next to him, even going as far as stating, he didn't count on the Saiyans being that powerful, when Vegeta killed Pui Pui, which makes it look like Base Vegeta is way beyond SSJ 2 Gohan.
One of the only good things is Vegeta's character development, which seemed to be where AT was headed all along.

It's not just you, I've heard it from other people who say that the Bobbodi's ship portion was poorly written. Your statement just happened to be the most recent one.

But you're right, I was just wondering whether some of those problems were to do with poor writing or something else. But I can see that it's poor writing now.

IMO the most poorly written part is when Goku first says something like "I can't beat Majin Boo, Vegeta gave all he had, and there wasn't any difference in power between me and Vegeta" and than he goes SSJ3 few episodes later.. and then some episodes later says he could've defeated Fat Buu after all. Too many contradicting plot twists

Yeah, that's right. If I'm not mistaken, Goku says he held back from using SSj3 to defeat Fat Boo because he wanted to let the kids have a shot. But when Kuririn asks him if he can defeat Boo, Goku said that he can't and was even with Vegeta, before the plan to have the kids use Fusion even came up. Definite plot gaff.

[Zarathustra]

The majority of the Boo saga appears like it was just made up on the spot.

And the final Kid Boo battle on the Kaioshin's planet was so anticlimactic, especially the third wish.

[AgitoZ]

The majority of the Boo saga appears like it was just made up on the spot.

Boo wasn't the first time. Toriyama has said that he had made most of the story as he went along, barely planning ahead. The Cell arc felt more like this, with the constant change of main villains. Although this mostly happened due to the editor's intrusion.

[Piccolo Daimao]

The majority of the Boo saga appears like it was just made up on the spot.

Boo wasn't the first time. Toriyama has said that he had made most of the story as he went along, barely planning ahead. The Cell arc felt more like this, with the constant change of main villains. Although this mostly happened due to the editor's intrusion.

In fact, I felt like the only times it didn't feel like Toriyama was making things up was everything before Raditz. The story felt so fluid and each story arc followed into the next one. However, Freeza felt like he could've easily been introduced out of nowhere and fitted into the story, what with no mention of Freeza in Vegeta's plan to collect the DBs and Vegeta thinking to himself that he's the strongest in the universe (ignoring Freeza, Zarbon, Dodoria, the Ginyu Force). And the near-death power-ups were definitely made up on the spot. Nothing about them before the Freeza arc, and then all of a sudden Kuririn's like, "Yeah, Goku powered up each time he survived a battle!" and Goku and Vegeta are getting power-ups left and right.

[Zarathustra]

The majority of the Boo saga appears like it was just made up on the spot.

Boo wasn't the first time. Toriyama has said that he had made most of the story as he went along, barely planning ahead. The Cell arc felt more like this, with the constant change of main villains. Although this mostly happened due to the editor's intrusion.

Yeah, I read that in Herm's guide, but the Boo saga just feels so spontaneous and misguided.

[Perfect]

None of it.

[Rocketman]

The Escape from Namek. With the added bonus of the Namekian Dragonballs draining the tension out of the rest of the series with their overpowered wish-granting.

[Fox666]

The Escape from Namek. With the added bonus of the Namekian Dragonballs draining the tension out of the rest of the series with their overpowered wish-granting.

That's it. The problem is not that part itself, but that it concludes the entire Namek saga.....

[SHINOBI-03]

"Why did we split?! Oh, it must be the bad air here!" EFFing hate that explanation .

[Rocketman]

"Why did we split?! Oh, it must be the bad air here!" EFFing hate that explanation :evil: .

This is second-worst, but only because it's a single incident and not an avalanche of coincidence and hooey.

[Fox666]

Thinking about it, the end of Freeza saga, Cell saga and Buu saga were all bad, very very bad. Saiyan saga had a great ending on the other hand.


Freeza saga could have culminated in the gratest ending that would be Goku becoming the legendary cold-hearted Super Saiyan who died in Namek after delivering the final blow in Freeza. Not just that, but Vegeta would have a perfect death for him, the psychopath saiyan died begging Goku to avenge the saiyan race.

Despite all work of Toriyama to limit the power of the Dragon Balls (i.e. cannot ressurect someone twice, cannot oppose someone stronger than their creator, etc) suddenly they can ressurect anyone as many times they want.


Cell saga is even worse, because it's not just the very end of the saga that suddenly turns in a bad conclusion. The entire Cell games part was not good. First of all, Cell became too nice and very merciful, which basically breaks all the tension of the monster we have seen before. And Cell realizes a tournament to challange the heros.

Goku suddenly is almost powerfull as Cell, making all progression of Cell power pointless. Cell fights with Goku for half of a volume, and Goku gives up, making their fight simply useless for the plot (what a waste of chapters)!! As if it's not enough, Goku gives a senzu to Cell (which in real life is comparable to giving medical care to a terrorist with a nuclear bomb) however he don't eat one himself and now is too weak to fight anyone. It's just like if Trunks came back in time and removed Goku from existence!

Most of Gohan's fight is good, it's interesting how he don't want to fight, and suddenly is kicking Cell's ass as a SSJ2. However again we have Goku intromission as teleporting a suicide bomb Cell to Kaio's planet and dying. We have seen Goku quick teleporting like when he saved Piccolo and Tenshinhan from Cell, why can't he just leave Cell there and teleport back? So we have a all sad death (why do you cry for someone's death when you have the Dragon Balls anyway?) that doesn't make any sense. At least the story becomes good again after Goku is gone for good.

What was the point of Goku in the entire Android/Cell saga anyway? It seems like Toriyama wanted him to stay the protagonist, and just found random holes for him that doesn't change the story.


The Majin Buu saga has a very different tone from the others. But I won't complaint about that.

The problem of this saga is that suddenly Gohan is weak again, Vegeta is badass and Goku super badass. And like Cell saga, Goku has enough power to defeat the villain but for some reason won't do so and will leave the little kids do the job.

So Goku is dead. What difference it does anyway, since you could ressurect him with the Dragon Balls? It's just like a trip. He can even return to the living realm!! Vegeta dies in the middle of the arc, but it more-or-less follows the same logic, they can ressurect him, he can return to the living world if he returns, etc...

The ending (Kid Buu fight) simply don't convince you of the danger. Gohan or Gotenks could easily deal with him, death is not a problem when you have the Dragon Balls and (with a back-up kit safe in another planet). Or they could simply return from the afterlife. For some reason, it's all left for Goku to finish the job. Didn't Goku said that he should not step in and let the two kids defeat Majin Buu?

[Rocketman]

The ending (Kid Buu fight) simply don't convince you of the danger.

Yeah, the Kid Buu setup is complete shit. They literally chose the hardest path to take.

-Save Gohan and/or Gotenks before Earth blows up
-Teleport to afterlife check-in station and retrieve Gohan and/or Gotenks immediately after arriving on Kai's World
-Use Potara
-Use Dance
-Teleport to check-in station while Vegeta delays Buu
-Use Dragonballs to bring Gohan and/or Gotenks to life and/or teleport them to Kaiworld
-Use Fusion Dance while Mr. Buu fights Kid Buu

And I probably missed some.

[penguintruth]

The Cell Games was extremely well-written, in my opinion. At this point, Cell believes himself to be the most powerful being ever. Why not make sport of things? With the Saiyan cells in him, including Goku's, he's going to want to do what Goku would do, which is to prove how strong he is. He's got no reason to just destroy the world. He's so powerful, it's actually beneath him to do so, so holding a competition out of pure arrogance is very in character and interesting. He doesn't really expect anyone to be any real competition, but what the hell, why not wait until somebody can provide some challenge? Saiyans are extremely arrogant. Vegeta purposely let Cell obtain his perfect form. He tried to provoke Freeza into transforming almost immediately in his battle with him. Goku let Vegeta go on Earth because he wanted to fight him again. Cell is part Saiyan. Besides which, the Artificial Humans were also severely cocky. The terror comes from the fact that at this point he's just toying with everyone.

And of course Goku's going to give Cell a senzu bean. This is GOKU we're talking about. He gets way too confident at times, too.

As for Gohan, him disliking fighting is what makes him even deadlier, because when he has to fight, he's going to make you suffer, because he'll only fight seriously when he's really enraged.

I have to agree with that stuff about the Buu arc. But what bothers me most of all in the Buu arc is all the jerking us around about who the hero is going to be, especially after building Gohan up as the new main character. And I'm not just talking about before the Buu arc starts, but in that arc, too. I can understand Toriyama deciding Gohan isn't charismatic enough to be the hero, whatever, I get it, but then to continue building him up for so long and then slapping the reader in the face with this convenient (though the way to it is very inconvenient, as its been mentioned), "Oh look, turns out Goku is the hero again after all" ending is laughable.

Then there's the ending with Uub, which I personally don't mind, but I can see where other people come from when they say they dislike it. Uub isn't a particularly great character. To me, though, I feel like it's just a bookend to the entire story of Dragon Ball.

In fact, the only really good writing in the Buu arc are some of the sillier aspects and of course Vegeta's development. This is why the Buu arc is my least favorite one.

I also dislike all that preliminary bullshit with Freeza's different forms. It just dragged and dragged.

[sbk]

Yeah, I read Herms' guide and it seems Toriyama wrote both the Cell and Buu sagas 'on the fly' so to speak. I thought it was quite masterful how he was forced to make up a new villain (Cell), and yet still managed to incorporate #16, #17, and #18 with Cell's story. Honestly, I found the Cell saga very coherent and if I didn't know better, I would've thought he planned everything all along. I also thought the ending of the Cell saga was the best of the series.

Now the Buu saga, everything from the Great Saiyaman saga up to Vegeta's atonement felt coherent and I loved every bit of it. But from the moment Goku turns SSJ3 and everything after that.. man the series really lost the plot after that and the last minute changes became too obvious

[Ahiru77]

Poorly written ?!

Hey, don't be dissin Toriyama people. xP
He's a genius. Nothing is poorly written, everything fits like a puzzle.

There are things he could have added, but the Toei staff took care of that...the dolls.

[kaialone]

Does the Garlic jr. Saga count ? I actually think that every part of the story is okay,but the reason as to why Vegetto split could have been explained better