Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Senzu_Bean]

Gohan was in a few millions and I don't consider him the strongest of the weakest.

[Fox666]

You mean Gohan was in a few millions during the Android saga?

[Senzu_Bean]

You mean Gohan was in a few millions during the Android saga?

He was almost less than half of a million 4 years ago and Goku considered him a great sparring partner if he could go Super Saiyan and he didn't improved before becoming a Super Saiyan.

[Fox666]

Future Trunks was a Super Saiyan as a kid, and his battle power is arguable not even 30,000. There isn't a minimum required to achieve Super Saiyan, or at least that Gohan hadn't achieved in Namek.

So I don't see why assume (and even deal of it as an argument) that Gohan has a battle power in the million mark. Otherwise I could say the same about Yamcha, Yajirobe.....

[dbgtFO]

Updated Battle Power list:

In the Saiyan and Freeza Arcs I'm only going to correct those I think are wrong and add 1 or 2, which weren't stated...

Piccolo Daimao Arc
The Daizenshuu and Weekly Jump gave Chaozu a BP of 610, so since Kami-sama stated all of the Earthlings surpassed him Kami's BP is less than that, but still strong enough to flick 260 Goku away.
I end up with this:

Mr. Popo = 338 - His BP is 1,3 times as large as Goku, securing an easy win.
Kami = 520 - His BP is more than 1,5 times as large as Popo's, so Popo saying Kami is a lot greater than him makes sense.

23rd TB Arc
Yamcha = 167 - it's to mirror the gap between him, Krillin and Tenshinhan 5 years later.
Krillin = 196
Tenshinhan = 240
Piccolo = 890 - taken from a fan made scan.
Goku = 910 - this is his full power, there is no Kamehameha multiplier it's simply his amount of ki reserves that let's him make such a powerful Kamehameha in the first place.

Saiyan Arc Part 1.
Goku = 924.
Piccolo = 900 - by concentrating all his BP into a single point he's able to make the Makankossapo stronger, than his normal power.

Saiyan Arc Part 2.
Piccolo = 2440 - 3500 just seems like too much and like this he's twice as powerful as his suppressed level.
Nappa = 7500 - because Nappa fought evenly with Goku and Goku by his own admission stated the fight would last forever.
Oozaru Vegeta = 50.000 - having made that moon ball made him lose power, so his Oozaru state is weakened because of it.
First Genkidama = 40.000.
Second Genkidama = 20.000.
Oozaru Gohan = 4000 - having lost most of his power he doesn't get to 28.000, like he normally would.

Namek Arc
Monster Zarbon = 34.500. - Krillin said his ki went up a lot, so 1,5 times his normal form seems fitting. Also do remember that Vegeta didn't face Zarbon directly at first, so that could imply that Zarbon still was the strongest.
Guldo = 5.000 - Krillin said he was nothing special and Vegeta said his BP was low.
Recoom = 41.000.
Jheese = 42.000.
Burta = 43.000. - they are basically equal to eachother, as stated by Krillin.
Vegeta(Saiyan Recovery boost) = 60.000. - Jeice is basically just as surprised by Vegeta's reading, as when Ginyu stated Goku was at 60.000.

Freeza Arc
Good guys
Nail(near death) = 3 - Nail had lost most of his power, but it was still enough to make Piccolo several times stronger.
Gohan(enraged) = 710.000. - Freeza survives without a scratch and Gohan is 1000 times as powerful as his crying BP in Raditz' spaceship. This power is 89% of Freeza's power.
-enraged 2 = 2.014.000 - since Freeza has more trouble with this, than the previous attack, obviously the blast was closer to his power. So it's 95% of his power.
Piccolo(with weights) = 322.000. - Nail states Piccolo's power is unbelievable implying he never thought any namekian would be that strong, so Piccolo is up there.
- without weights = 408.000. - 1000 times more powerful than his suppressed self on Earth vs. Raditz.
- merged = 966.000.
- without weights = 1.330.000. - 1000 times more powerful than his first Makankossapo.
Vegeta = 420.000. - inferior to full power initial Freeza.
- Saiyan Recovery Boost = 2.400.000. - thinks he is now a Super Saiyan.
Goku(healed) = 3.000.000.
- KKx20 Kamehameha = 60.000.000.
- SSJ = 150.000.000.

Bad Guy
Freeza 1st transformation = 795.000. - like Zarbon initially a 1,5 boost.
- vs. Gohan(round 2) = 900.000.
- vs. Piccolo(round 2) = 1.060.000 - he claims that he's outputting his true ability now.
Freeza 2nd transformation = 2.120.000. - as soon as he's transformed Goku states he probably couldn't win against this current Freeza. Goku thought he reached his limits, so he didn't know he would get even stronger than 90.000, so this means Goku knew that this Freeza was at the very least far more powerful than a potential Kaiokenx10(900.000) and probably also slightly more powerful than a Kaiokenx20(1.800.000).
Freeza 3rd transformation = 3.180.000. - Freeza seemed to have the upper hand vs. Goku most of the time and he also stated they were simply warming up before he decided to use no hands.
- exploding Goku's Kamehameha = 72.000.000. - Freeza was able to explode it, so he most certainly raised his BP for an instant there. I say he powered up to 60%. The reason why the gap in BP(Kamehameha being 83,33% of 60% Freeza) is bigger than when Gohan fired his "Masenko like" attack and Freeza still saying that it hurt is because in the Gohan example he blocked with his entire body, while in the Goku example he blocked with only his hand, so the damage was concentrated to that specific point.
- 100% - 120.000.000.

Trunks Arc
King Cold = 110.000.000.
Mecha Freeza = 140.000.000. - never showed his full power though, since it wasn't stated!
SSJ Trunks = 150.000.000. - if Trunks was stronger, than Goku to a significant degree Gohan would have stated it.
SSJ Goku = 180.000.000. - Trunks was positively surprised, when he saw how strong Goku was.

Androids Arc Part 1.
Good Guys
Yamcha = 1.800.000. - #19 & #20 considered him of use.
Gohan = 2.400.000.
Krillin = 3.000.000.
Tenshinhan = 4.800.000. - if they were so weak compared to base Saiyans by this point you would think they would've admitted it. Yet it's first, when Goku goes SSJ again that Tenshinhan admits he can't keep up, implying that base Saiyan strength is within reach for even the regular Earthlings.
SSJ Sick Goku = 80.000.000. - Goku was sick and was far from full power, stated by Piccolo.
- actual full power = 220.000.000.
SSJ Vegeta = 230.000.000.
Piccolo = 100.000.000 - if he wasn't on a level only Super Saiyans measure up to then Krillin's comment makes no sense.
SSJ Trunks = 150.000.000. - if a powerup isn't noted, it didn't happen. Trunks isn't stated to have become stronger when they meet him again.

Bad Guys
#19 = 50.000.000. - is helpless against Goku.
- after absorbing Goku's ki(mostly from the Kamehameha) = 140.000.000.
Dr. Gero = 75.000.000. - isn't scared by Goku's SSJ, but even though he was wrong about #19's abilities, I don't think he was that different from SSJ Goku.
+ Yamcha's ki = 76.770.000.
+ Vegeta's ki = 79.000.000.
+ Piccolo's ki = 80.000.000. - he is helpless against Piccolo though, so a gap of more than 1,2 seems fitting.
#16 = 400.000.000.
#17 = 300.000.000.
#18 = 270.000.000. - didn't consider Vegeta anything special, so she is indeed stronger than him.

Androids Arc Part 2.
Good Guys
Piccolo merged with Kami = 300.000.000. - merging with Kami gives him a triple boost, because of it being 3 people in one, instead of 2, which it originally would have been if he didn't merge with Nail.
SSJ Vegeta = 540.000.000. - has greatly powered up.
Super Vegeta = 810.000.000.
SSJ Trunks = 520.000.000. - slightly weaker than Vegeta.
Super Trunks = 780.000.000.
Super Trunks 2 = 1.560.000.000.

Meanwhile in the Room of Spirit and Time...
SSJ Goku = 250.000.000. - having gotten a little bit stronger, due to his image training.
Super Goku = 375.000.000.
Super Goku 2 = 750.000.000. - Gohan seemed sure Goku could defeat Suppressed Semiperfect Cell with that power.
...And back to the plot!

Bad Guy
Cell(Imperfect initially) = 240.000.000. - is worried about SSJ Vegeta.
- Humans absorbed = 400.000.000.
- Semiperfect(suppressed) = 600.000.000.
- Full Power = 700.000.000.
- Perfect = 970.000.000. - however he's suppressed.

Cell Games Arc
Good Guys
50% FPSSJ Goku = 1.000.000.000.
- FPSSJ = 2.000.000.000.
FPSSJ Gohan = 2.500.000.000.
- SSJ 2 = 6.000.000.000. - his boost is greater just because.
SSJ Vegeta = 1.500.000.000. - He is sure he surpassed Goku(not knowing that he only sensed ½ of his max), so a 1,5 difference seems fitting.
SSJ Trunks = 1.450.000.000.
Piccolo = 1.200.000.000. - Piccolo was able to not be taken down by the Cell Jr, so he isn't that far from Vegeta & Trunks.

Bad Guys
Cell Jrs = 1.500.000.000.
Cell(vs. FPSSJ Goku) = 2.200.000.000.
- Full Power = 3.500.000.000.
- Buff = 5.250.000.000.
- Super Perfect = 5.800.000.000.
And that is it for now.

[Senzu_Bean]

Future Trunks was a Super Saiyan as a kid, and his battle power is arguable not even 30,000. There isn't a minimum required to achieve Super Saiyan, or at least that Gohan hadn't achieved in Namek.

So I don't see why assume (and even deal of it as an argument) that Gohan has a battle power in the million mark. Otherwise I could say the same about Yamcha, Yajirobe.....

That is so wrong. Gohan was far above 30,000 on Namek. But anyways, you like to keep them low, so...

[dbgtFO]

Future Trunks was a Super Saiyan as a kid, and his battle power is arguable not even 30,000. There isn't a minimum required to achieve Super Saiyan, or at least that Gohan hadn't achieved in Namek.

So I don't see why assume (and even deal of it as an argument) that Gohan has a battle power in the million mark. Otherwise I could say the same about Yamcha, Yajirobe.....

That is so wrong. Gohan was far above 30,000 on Namek. But anyways, you like to keep them low, so...

I think this:

Chapter: 299 (DBZ 105), P13.1
Context: after Gohan is healed by Dende
Vegeta: “Heh…Just as you’d expect of someone with Saiyan blood, after reviving his battle power has greatly risen…A-alright! Luck is turning our way just a little bit…”

heavily implies that he probably even surpassed Vegeta, when he was healed, since Vegeta thought they might have a slight chance.
And Vegeta wouldn't consider a power of 30.000 of any use TBH Fox666.

[dbgtFO]

Or it's Vegeta super arrogance, at least I can't imagine Vegeta saying instead "you are the only one that can do this Goku!"

And that's why he said this?

Chapter: 402 (DBZ 208), P10.1
Vegeta: “It drives me crazy, but I’ll admit it…Despite doing all that special training, I didn’t surpass Kakarot…Th-that bastard’s a genius…But Cell is 1 or 2 steps above even Kakarot…”

Chapter: 402 (DBZ 208), P14.8
Context: after Goku wants to pick the person to fight Cell next
Vegeta: “Wh-what’s he planning…?! Th-there’s nobody who can win…!”

Vegeta despite being Super Arrogant admits Goku is stronger than him and that if Goku is unable to beat Cell then noone is.

But I never understood if Vegeta and Trunks maintain their stage 2 during the Cell games, so I don't expect to be accurate in Cell Jr. power. At least I might half agre with you and I might not put any estimative on Cell Jr.

Just make them in between Goku's 50%-100% power.
Sorry for the double post, I just realized it

[Fox666]

heavily implies that he probably even surpassed Vegeta, when he was healed, since Vegeta thought they might have a slight chance.
And Vegeta wouldn't consider a power of 30.000 of any use TBH Fox666.

What is "any use" against Freeza? I guess Vegeta was expecting something from his rage power

[dbgtFO]

heavily implies that he probably even surpassed Vegeta, when he was healed, since Vegeta thought they might have a slight chance.
And Vegeta wouldn't consider a power of 30.000 of any use TBH Fox666.

What is "any use" against Freeza? I guess Vegeta was expecting something from his rage power

Vegeta took a look at the Gohan in front of him, whose battle power had greatly risen and said their luck was turning because of that. Not that he expected another rage boost from him.
To me it's crystal clear.

About Dr. Gero:

Chapter: 345 (DBZ 151), P14.7
Context: after seeing that Gohan, Tenshinhan, Piccolo, and Kuririn had followed him
No.20: “If I collect their energy and add it to my own, I’ll be able to win against Vegeta!”

Dr. Gero thinks that adding Piccolo and Co's powers to his own would make him stronger than Vegeta, which means that if his power is only 2.000.000. and Piccolo is only 3.000.000 he wouldn't even come close to SSJ Vegeta. Please try to explain that.

About the strength of earthlings:

Chapter: 345 (DBZ 151), P14.7
Context: after seeing that Gohan, Tenshinhan, Piccolo, and Kuririn had followed him
No.20: “If I collect their energy and add it to my own, I’ll be able to win against Vegeta!”

Gero considered not only Piccolo, but also the others usefull. A power of 10.000 wouldn't make him significantly stronger, when he's already in the millions...

Chapter: 346 (DBZ 152), P1.5
No.20: “So then…Who’s energy shall I take?...So Piccolo’s the most powerful after Vegeta, huh?...”

Gero at first is unsure of which one of the four(Piccolo, Gohan, Tenshinhan & Krillin) he is going to take energy from, which implies that the earthlings although arguably being weaker than base saiyans are still powerful enough to warrant Gero not picking Piccolo immediately and instead make him wonder, which one he's going to pick. That's got to mean something to you and every other earthling hater as well!

[Senzu_Bean]

Gohan is definitely stronger than Vegeta after that Zenkai. One doesn't even have to bring the correspondent battle powers since it is implied he is.

... which implies that the earthlings although arguably being weaker than base saiyans...

They probably are weaker than Vegeta and Goku but they definitely aren't weaker than Gohan, besides Yamcha.

[Rocketman]

they definitely aren't weaker than Gohan, besides Yamcha.

Gohan trained with a Super Saiyan.

Krillin farted about on Roshi's island, specifically because he couldn't keep up with Goku, Gohan and Piccolo.

Tien spit-roasted Chaozu for three years.

[Senzu_Bean]

they definitely aren't weaker than Gohan, besides Yamcha.

Gohan trained with a Super Saiyan.

Means nothing considering he isn't even stronger than Goku's base.

Training methods mean nothing when implications put him at least equal to Kuririn and Tenshinhan.

[Rocketman]

Means nothing considering he isn't even stronger than Goku's base.

Says who?

Edit: do you mean Goku's base on Namek or Goku's base vs Androids

[Senzu_Bean]

Means nothing considering he isn't even stronger than Goku's base.

Says who?

If he is, Kuririn and Tenshinhan also are.

EDIT: Against the cyborgs.

[Rocketman]

So Piccolo gains roughly a hundred million points from training with Super Saiyan Goku.

Gohan, who's training with SS Goku AND with Piccolo, gains squat.

Krillin and Tien's shitty training brings them up to Gohan's level.


:psyduck:

[Senzu_Bean]

But Gohan didn't gain as much as Piccolo. Gohan can't take on #19 and #20 yet Piccolo can. That by itself shows Gohan didn't benefit as much as Piccolo did with training with Super Saiyan Goku. And we don't even know what training Kuririn and Tenshinhan did.

[Rocketman]

And we don't even know what training Kuririn and Tenshinhan did.

We know they weren't training with a Super Saiyan, so who gives a shit what they wasted their time on?

[Senzu_Bean]

And we don't even know what training Kuririn and Tenshinhan did.

We know they weren't training with a Super Saiyan, so who gives a shit what they wasted their time on?

Then why instead of be equal to Piccolo or at least close to him he is he comparable to Kuririn and Tenshinhan?

[dbgtFO]

And we don't even know what training Kuririn and Tenshinhan did.

We know they weren't training with a Super Saiyan, so who gives a shit what they wasted their time on?

I do, because of the Shin Kikoho's ridiculous power compared to the regular Kikoho!