Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Senzu_Bean]

Goku was midair, when he started to charge the Kamehameha, so it's more than likely it fell a little bit, also 924 was the first level Raditz read out and not 500 fx, which shows me, that Goku indeed was at close to 900, since he kept on charging after that.

Goku's was rising his battle power before Raditz ever said a number, as the following sentence shows:

Raditz: "Impossible!!! His battle power is rising!!! Battle power 924...!!!"

And Piccolo's 1330 is because it's a special technique, just like the Kikoho. It's ridiculously powerful, but it's downside is charging it, so Piccolo could be fighting at a level close to 900, but his Makankossapo has a power that is the equivalent of a 1330 ki blast, like Daizenshuu 7 states.

There is no such thing as a special technique. The Kikoho, the Kamehameha and the Makankossapo are all the same - Ki based techniques. There is no such thing that implies the Makankossapo is such special technique that can miraculous increase Piccolo's power beyond his own. But hey, if you want to believe in that go ahead.

[Kaboom]

I think it may be a combination of both concepts. Actually fighting and using attacks may bring a character's full power to the surface beyond its regular "resting" level. Especially when you train, like Goku did under Popo and Kami, to conserve your power and then unleash it in bursts when needed.

But then Piccolo's Makankosappo is an attack designed to not actually increase Piccolo's own normal power, but to be charged up like a capacitor, to the point where the attack itself becomes stronger than the user. Didn't Piccolo actually say he devised the attack as a way to kill Goku, who is stronger than him?

[Piccolo Daimao]

^ Only Goku and Piccolo can manipulate their battle powers at the time Bulma read the Earthlings strength.

But when I think about it, Raditz is later surprised by Goku raising his BP with the Kamehameha...

This basically show Goku wasn't fighting at over 900 or Goku wouldn't be raising his battle power like Raditz (Toriyama) suggests. And if Goku is really over 900 than Piccolo is over 1000, implying Piccolo is stronger than Goku, which isn't suggested anywhere.

Actually, I don't think Goku was fighting at over 900. I was merely voicing a potential opinion that Goku could be over 416, since, as we see in the series, your battle power rises when you fight. Goku's power only reaches over 900 when he uses the Kamehameha.

And about the Earthlings not being able to manipulate their battle power, wouldn't their battle power still be higher than at rest? Because Gohan was only able to sense Videl once she'd started fighting, and she obviously couldn't manipulate her ki. Or is that different, since Gohan wasn't holding a scouter or anything like that at the time?

Didn't Piccolo actually say he devised the attack as a way to kill Goku, who is stronger than him?

Yeah, he did. Although the two were roughly equal, Goku was more powerful (although Piccolo doesn't say this).

[dbgtFO]

Goku was midair, when he started to charge the Kamehameha, so it's more than likely it fell a little bit, also 924 was the first level Raditz read out and not 500 fx, which shows me, that Goku indeed was at close to 900, since he kept on charging after that.

Goku's was rising his battle power before Raditz ever said a number, as the following sentence shows:

Raditz: "Impossible!!! His battle power is rising!!! Battle power 924...!!!"

And yet none other than a BP of 924 was the first stated, unless Goku charges Kamehameha that fast(which he didn't, since we saw he kept charging) that it instantly appears close to 924, when he previously was at 416, I don't see it..

There is no such thing as a special technique. The Kikoho, the Kamehameha and the Makankossapo are all the same - Ki based techniques. There is no such thing that implies the Makankossapo is such special technique that can miraculous increase Piccolo's power beyond his own. But hey, if you want to believe in that go ahead.

I don't believe in such things as BP multiplier for ki blasts and the like, I said that Piccolo was fighting at a level close to 900, not that the 1330 isn't his power. Don't spout such nonsense.

[Senzu_Bean]

I think it may be a combination of both concepts. Actually fighting and using attacks may bring a character's full power to the surface beyond its regular "resting" level. Especially when you train, like Goku did under Popo and Kami, to conserve your power and then unleash it in bursts when needed.

What is exactly "resting" level?

But then Piccolo's Makankosappo is an attack designed to not actually increase Piccolo's own normal power, but to be charged up like a capacitor, to the point where the attack itself becomes stronger than the user. Didn't Piccolo actually say he devised the attack as a way to kill Goku, who is stronger than him?

Source?

Actually, I don't think Goku was fighting at over 900. I was merely voicing a potential opinion that Goku could be over 416, since, as we see in the series, your battle power rises when you fight. Goku's power only reaches over 900 when he uses the Kamehameha.

But wasn't your point that the Weekly Jump 916 for Goku wasn't his full-power?

And about the Earthlings not being able to manipulate their battle power, wouldn't their battle power still be higher than at rest? Because Gohan was only able to sense Videl once she'd started fighting, and she obviously couldn't manipulate her ki. Or is that different, since Gohan wasn't holding a scouter or anything like that at the time?

I would say their ki would be wilder while fighting, not higher.

And yet none other than a BP of 924 was the first stated, unless Goku charges Kamehameha that fast(which he didn't, since we saw he kept charging) that it instantly appears close to 924, when he previously was at 416, I don't see it..

He probably does, really.

I don't believe in such things as BP multiplier for ki blasts and the like, I said that Piccolo was fighting at a level close to 900, not that the 1330 isn't his power. Don't spout such nonsense.

Neither do I but you seem to do.

[dbgtFO]

And about the Earthlings not being able to manipulate their battle power, wouldn't their battle power still be higher than at rest? Because Gohan was only able to sense Videl once she'd started fighting, and she obviously couldn't manipulate her ki. Or is that different, since Gohan wasn't holding a scouter or anything like that at the time?

A scouter is more efficient, when scanning for low level people, as shown on Namek.
To me that means that scouters can detect the full power of anyone, unless they are actively making their ki output less than their full power(by suppression like Z senshi & Ginyu or suppression like Freeza and Zarbon, since they have transformations to suppress their power).

I don't believe in such things as BP multiplier for ki blasts and the like, I said that Piccolo was fighting at a level close to 900, not that the 1330 isn't his power. Don't spout such nonsense.

Neither do I but you seem to do.

Then I should have worded it better then

[Kaboom]

The example with Videl is a good point.

I think it's probably safe to assume that one's Ki always fluctuates as they fight, even if it's not so drastically as Goku and Piccolo's examples. Such is Ki's nature, to change in strength and potency depending on the individual's health, stamina, mental state, and so forth. Kuririn at rest was 206, but if he were to suddenly start fighting someone, it might jump up to, say... 235.

What is exactly "resting" level?

Do I really need to explain it? It's whatever power the character is putting out while they're just standing around, not exerting themselves or particularly "powered up" in any way.

Source?

Educated conjecture.

[Senzu_Bean]

I think it's probably safe to assume that one's Ki always fluctuates as they fight, even if it's not so drastically as Goku and Piccolo's examples. Such is Ki's nature, to change in strength and potency depending on the individual's health, stamina, mental state, and so forth. Kuririn at rest was 206, but if he were to suddenly start fighting someone, it might jump up to, say... 235.

Kuririn can't alter his battle power before training with Kami and as demonstrated later persons who cannot manipulate their battle powers always have the same scouter reading besides exclusive cases like being dead, injured, etc.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Actually, I don't think Goku was fighting at over 900. I was merely voicing a potential opinion that Goku could be over 416, since, as we see in the series, your battle power rises when you fight. Goku's power only reaches over 900 when he uses the Kamehameha.

But wasn't your point that the Weekly Jump 916 for Goku wasn't his full-power?

I had changed my mind, but now...

And about the Earthlings not being able to manipulate their battle power, wouldn't their battle power still be higher than at rest? Because Gohan was only able to sense Videl once she'd started fighting, and she obviously couldn't manipulate her ki. Or is that different, since Gohan wasn't holding a scouter or anything like that at the time?

I would say their ki would be wilder while fighting, not higher.

Wilder ki while fighting...that sounds like another interesting theory.

This actually reminds of that thread about Saiyans not being able to suppress their battle power, but surprising everyone when they "power-up" (e.g. Nappa's first power-up, Vegeta powering up to fight Goku). You could say that it's just for drama, or the Saiyans were bringing their ki to the surface, but wouldn't bringing your ki to the surface just be the same thing as what the Earthlings do? I think other people and I said that this aspect of ki was poorly explained.

[Senzu_Bean]

Wilder ki while fighting...that sounds like another interesting theory.

The word is actually used on the manga. Check Herms' guide.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Wilder ki while fighting...that sounds like another interesting theory.

The word is actually used on the manga. Check Herms' guide.

Which guide? And where?

[Senzu_Bean]

Wilder ki while fighting...that sounds like another interesting theory.

The word is actually used on the manga. Check Herms' guide.

Which guide? And where?

Her strength guide. Here it is:

Context: as Yamcha gets stabbed by No.20
Tenshinhan: “A large ki went wild and is falling…! Wh-who is it!?”

Sure there is room Tenshinhan was referring to a ki suddenly increasing but if that was the case the ki wouldn't be large, would it?

I didn't say it's a learned or willful ability. I said it's probably just something that happens naturally, to a slight degree, because that's the very definition of how Ki works, even within Dragon Ball's fictional parameters.

It isn't, otherwise it would contradict statements later on the series. And ki doesn't exist.

[Kaboom]

Kuririn can't alter his battle power before training with Kami and as demonstrated later persons who cannot manipulate their battle powers always have the same scouter reading besides exclusive cases like being dead, injured, etc.

I didn't say it's a learned or willful ability. I said it's probably just something that happens naturally, to a slight degree, because that's the very definition of how Ki works, even within Dragon Ball's fictional parameters.


Anyway, I may not have been much help in this regard lately, but I want to remind everyone about the nature of this thread. It is not intended for debates. It is intended for the creation, posting, and friendly critique of Power Level lists. Let's try to keep it on that track, okay? If need be, I'll finish up a thing or two and post them soon for that purpose.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Herms' strength guide. Here it is:

Context: as Yamcha gets stabbed by No.20
Tenshinhan: “A large ki went wild and is falling…! Wh-who is it!?”

Just fixed that typo for you.

But yeah, that is interesting. Especially since it was when Yamcha got injured.

So...could this mean that ki simply flares during battle? Because it's more wild, it would be more easily sensed, which would explain why Gohan could sense Videl once she began fighting, even though she couldn't manipulate her ki.

[Senzu_Bean]

So...could this mean that ki simply flares during battle? Because it's more wild, it would be more easily sensed, which would explain why Gohan could sense Videl once she began fighting, even though she couldn't manipulate her ki.

Precisely! That is what I believe though.

[dbgtFO]

Wilder ki while fighting...that sounds like another interesting theory.

This actually reminds of that thread about Saiyans not being able to suppress their battle power, but surprising everyone when they "power-up" (e.g. Nappa's first power-up, Vegeta powering up to fight Goku). You could say that it's just for drama, or the Saiyans were bringing their ki to the surface, but wouldn't bringing your ki to the surface just be the same thing as what the Earthlings do? I think other people and I said that this aspect of ki was poorly explained.

A scouter is just generally better than novice ki sensers.
I believe Vegeta stated on Namek, that he probably shouldn't have destroyed his scouter after all, since it would be easier to scan for Namekians with one.

The reason why noone could properly sense Nappa and Vegeta's true power is because they weren't able to sense power below the surface, so when Nappa or Vegeta powered up it felt much greater, than their standing around ki to the Z fighters, but if you had a scouter the value wouldn't change. This is fact, since we know Vegeta said he first acquired the ability to alter his BP reading on Earth, so Vegeta before entering battle with Goku would be read at barely 18.000, while the same would be true for Vegeta after powering up, even though Goku couldn't sense his true power, since Goku isn't a scouter.
And that's what Goku and Co. does differently, they can freely alter their ki output making the scouter pick up only a fraction of their full power.

EDIT: And Kaboom is right, this thread needs some power levels and fast!!
Seriously, was my Chi Chi power level chart the most recent one in this thread?

[Kaboom]

So...could this mean that ki simply flares during battle? Because it's more wild, it would be more easily sensed, which would explain why Gohan could sense Videl once she began fighting, even though she couldn't manipulate her ki.

Precisely! That is what I believe though.

That's exactly what I'm saying, too. In the same way it's "more easily sensed," someone's Ki flaring as they fought would register as a slightly (apparently need to emphasize that part) higher number on a Scouter than if they were just standing around. Even if the person fighting doesn't have the ability to willfully control their Ki.

A normal human might go from a 5 to a 6.
Videl might have registered as a 10 going up to a 15.
Kuririn might go up from 206 to 235.

All of those examples are barely noticeable increases compared to the rest of the person's normal power.

[Senzu_Bean]

Wilder ki doesn't mean bigger ki, like a lake when its waters are wild doesn't have more water when they are calm. But that is just me.

[dbgtFO]

So...could this mean that ki simply flares during battle? Because it's more wild, it would be more easily sensed, which would explain why Gohan could sense Videl once she began fighting, even though she couldn't manipulate her ki.

Precisely! That is what I believe though.

That's exactly what I'm saying, too. In the same way it's "more easily sensed," someone's Ki flaring as they fought would register as a slightly (apparently need to emphasize that part) higher number on a Scouter than if they were just standing around. Even if the person fighting doesn't have the ability to willfully control their Ki.

A normal human might go from a 5 to a 6.
Videl might have registered as a 10 going up to a 15.
Kuririn might go up from 206 to 235.

All of those examples are barely noticeable increases compared to the rest of the person's normal power.

Kaboom, although I usually agree with you, here I don't. To me it's made clear, that scouters pick up one's full power, unless you go around suppressing it like Goku and Co after Kami training or like Freeza, warrior Namekians, Ginyu and Zarbon. And in Zarbon and Freeza's cases it's because they have transformations that suppress their power and also their BP.

[Daimo-Rukiri]

This is all really good info mainly for those who're implementing a Battle Power system into an actual video game (fan game obviously)