Most poorly written part of Dragon Ball

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

Also if Trunks said #17 & #18 it would be even more stupid, since Gero claims that he is #20, which undoubtedly would confuse the ever so observant Piccolo and make him realize that something's wrong.
That's the reason why they didn't change it in the Kanzenban, because it would be pretty stupid to do so.

There's another option, actually. They'd just have to remove any mention of numbers.

[Perfect]

I always felt like Toriyama wrote himself into a corner with the extent of the Dragon Ball's power.

Compared to other series? Not even close. At all.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

Interestingly enough, to add to my previous post, it seems that Toei went and removed the mention of the androids' numbers in episode 122! Original line:



Anime line (I did this one by ear, so it might be a little off): 「しかし究極の殺人マシンとして造られたその人造人間たち...その生みの親であるドクター・ゲロをも殺してしまった...」

He just calls them 人造人間たち (jinzo-ningen tachi/the two androids) instead of giving out their numbers. Great job, Toei! This is news to me... (Theres also a couple of other subtle modifications to Trunks's dialogue, I guess to make it sound better when spoken, or something?)

[Godo]

I have to agree with many other people about the Androids Arc being the most poorly written. From the constant changes to the timeline mess, it is certainly one of the candidates for the worst written arc.
Although I have to disagree with the Buu Arc (Babidi part) being poorly written. I merely blame it on Kaioshin being an idiot, Dabra overestimating his strength, and Goku being too vague.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I have to agree with many other people about the Androids Arc being the most poorly written. From the constant changes to the timeline mess, it is certainly one of the candidates for the worst written arc.

While I agree that the Cell arc was quite poorly written, I don't think you should label the time travel mess as part of it. Most time travel I've seen in fiction are screwed up anyway. Back to the Future, for example, is a classic film, yet it has the grandfather paradox, which makes no sense. It looks to me that it's nigh impossible to make any time travel coherent and work in fiction.

[Goku100xKamehameha]

Interestingly enough, to add to my previous post, it seems that Toei went and removed the mention of the androids' numbers in episode 122! Original line:



Anime line (I did this one by ear, so it might be a little off): 「しかし究極の殺人マシンとして造られたその人造人間たち...その生みの親であるドクター・ゲロをも殺してしまった...」

He just calls them 人造人間たち (jinzo-ningen tachi/the two androids) instead of giving out their numbers. Great job, Toei! This is news to me... (Theres also a couple of other subtle modifications to Trunks's dialogue, I guess to make it sound better when spoken, or something?)

Wait, what? So Trunks thought that the names for the Jinzo-ningen from his timeline are #19 and #20?

[penguintruth]

I can't understand the attitude that the Androids/Cell arc is poorly written. If anything, the time travel aspect is written better than in a lot of science fiction.

Because, you see, you can't prevent something from having happened, otherwise it would have already not happened. Trunks can't change his own timeline, because it's already happened that way. If he was able to change it, then it wouldn't need changing. Introducing the element of creating alternate timelines instead of the usual nonsense about being able to alter time altogether is nigh brilliant, especially for a pretty straight forward shonen manga. It could have taken the stupid convenient path of the usual time travel approach (you can prevent things in your present/future by going into the past), but it didn't, and for the better.

[xzero]

Wait, what? So Trunks thought that the names for the Jinzo-ningen from his timeline are #19 and #20?

Interestingly, the Viz translation retained the mistake. I'd say it's possible that Toriyama was originally planning on having the Androids at issue be Nos. 19 & 20, and 17 & 18 were later added in. Or otherwise he just made a mistake. But it's clear that Trunks never thought their names were 19 and 20 because he returns, sees 19 & 20 in the main timeline, and accurately describes 17 & 18 to the others. In other words, no inference about what the characters knew or did not know can be drawn from this; it's just a mistake or an inconsistency that someone missed when 17 & 18 were later added. Nothing more.

Good catch Toei (and Funimation) for fixing this in the anime!

[Perfect]

I can't understand the attitude that the Androids/Cell arc is poorly written. If anything, the time travel aspect is written better than in a lot of science fiction.

Because, you see, you can't prevent something from having happened, otherwise it would have already not happened. Trunks can't change his own timeline, because it's already happened that way. If he was able to change it, then it wouldn't need changing. Introducing the element of creating alternate timelines instead of the usual nonsense about being able to alter time altogether is nigh brilliant, especially for a pretty straight forward shonen manga. It could have taken the stupid convenient path of the usual time travel approach (you can prevent things in your present/future by going into the past), but it didn't, and for the better.

I agree, using time travel theories other than the clichéd bullshit we see in tons of media is clever. From what I can tell, a lot of people are just easily confused about it (Even if they've had it explained to them a million times) and don't seem to understand paradoxes. Another thing I've noticed is that, they find it just a "clusterfuck" of bad plot devices and a way to get the story moving due to a lack of ideas. Of course I disagree with these, since the plot devices used in the Artificial Humans' story arc are well done and fit into the story, the same can also be said into the Cell arc. I mean, the story fits in well like the Saiyan arc did with the Freeza arc, it's pretty damn good writing if you ask me.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I can't understand the attitude that the Androids/Cell arc is poorly written. If anything, the time travel aspect is written better than in a lot of science fiction.

Because, you see, you can't prevent something from having happened, otherwise it would have already not happened. Trunks can't change his own timeline, because it's already happened that way. If he was able to change it, then it wouldn't need changing. Introducing the element of creating alternate timelines instead of the usual nonsense about being able to alter time altogether is nigh brilliant, especially for a pretty straight forward shonen manga. It could have taken the stupid convenient path of the usual time travel approach (you can prevent things in your present/future by going into the past), but it didn't, and for the better.

I'll give Toriyama credit for using the multiple timelines concept, but there are other reasons why the Cell arc was poorly written. The sloppy improvisation of having one set of main villains being replaced by another (who didn't do much at all) and then by another. And then that final villain didn't have much to him once he became Perfect.

Then you get into the Cell Games, with Gohan suddenly becoming a pacifist to move the plot on, then the bullshit asspull of Cell miraculously regenerating from his own self-destruction from a nucleus in his head that Goku should've destroyed before with his Shunkan-Ido Kamehameha. And now he's gotten a Zenkai, a dead plot device that was asspulled from the Freeza arc and then went away once Super Saiyan rolled around, and he's become strong enough to be a match for Gohan.

And then, after all this, we're supposed to swallow that Gohan's going to take over Goku's role. You know, after randomly becoming a pacifist and letting himself get beaten up, sadistically torturing Cell rather than killing him straight away (resulting in Goku's death), then pussying out and still having to be coached by Goku to finish off the job. And don't forget the fact, in the manga, that there was practically no build-up for Gohan becoming hero of Earth, before just being a regular Z-Warrior who had the occasional angry bursts of power before sitting back to let Goku be the hero, and then no battles or anything for him until the Cell Games.

Toriyama somewhat rectified this mistake in the Boo arc, but it was very sloppy; a complete shitting on Gohan's character development by shafting him in the favour of two kids, his absence for large portions of the story and his laughably short-lived power-up and having Goku be the hero again. And then, after all that, even Goten and Trunks neglect their "next-generation of heroes" roles to have normal lives.

All-in-all, the Cell arc was poorly written. Still not as much as the ultimate clusterfuck that is the Boo arc, which looked like Toriyama just didn't give a shit anymore.

[penguintruth]

Randomly became a pacifist? Where you ever paying attention at any point during the story? Gohan never enjoyed fighting. Or at least, he doesn't enjoy making game of deadly serious situations, the way his father would. But when pushed enough he becomes deadly, for that very reason. He lost himself in his power because he wasn't used to that level of rage and power, and wanted Cell to suffer, but became overwhelmed when his actions led to Cell using his self-destruct. Then his father sacrifices his life, Cell comes back, kills Trunks, and it's all very overwhelming for him. He's put in a corner, pushed to desperation, and it's hard for him to work up the nerve to finish Cell off because at this point it isn't clear he can and he feels guilty for not already having done so. Those events put everyone into a shock, why should Gohan be blamed?

At no point did Gohan "pussy out".

I also enjoy how Toriyama incorporated different elements into the story, putting a twist on the tournament arcs, having a villain who had a similar goal to Goku to become the strongest, having Piccolo and Kami reunite, etc. It's a really excellent arc.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Randomly became a pacifist? Where you ever paying attention at any point during the story? Gohan never enjoyed fighting. Or at least, he doesn't enjoy making game of deadly serious situations, the way his father would. But when pushed enough he becomes deadly, for that very reason. He lost himself in his power because he wasn't used to that level of rage and power, and wanted Cell to suffer, but became overwhelmed when his actions led to Cell using his self-destruct. Then his father sacrifices his life, Cell comes back, kills Trunks, and it's all very overwhelming for him. He's put in a corner, pushed to desperation, and it's hard for him to work up the nerve to finish Cell off because at this point it isn't clear he can and he feels guilty for not already having done so. Those events put everyone into a shock, why should Gohan be blamed?

At no point did Gohan "pussy out".

Look at everything he did during the Freeza arc. He knocks out a henchmen of Freeza, fights Reacoom, Ginyu and Freeza (the part after he rages out and is reassured Kuririn's fine). Those were all situations when he wasn't even enraged. And then, when it comes to the Cell Games, he suddenly decides he's not going to fight during a battle for the fate of the entire planet and lets Cell beat the crap out of him. Just because he never enjoyed fighting doesn't mean he doesn't do it.

I'm not denying that the Cell arc had its good points. I actually overall like it. I liked Cell, the Androids, SSj2 Gohan, Future Trunks, the more sci-fi-oriented plot...but just because I like it doesn't mean it has good writing.

[penguintruth]

Those are all situations where he had no choice. Goku, Piccolo, Vegeta, Trunks, they're all there at the Cell Games. He didn't believe he was the only hope until Cell killed #16.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Those are all situations where he had no choice. Goku, Piccolo, Vegeta, Trunks, they're all there at the Cell Games. He didn't believe he was the only hope until Cell killed #16.

He did have no choice. Goku, his father and the person he looked up to, had forfeited the battle and put the fate of the planet in his hands. Goku, who Gohan thought had been holding back and was surprised to have not been, had left the responsibility of killing Cell up to him. Piccolo, Vegeta and Trunks are all weaker than him. He knew that he was the only hope, but instead did a 180, became a pacifist and let Cell smoke him.

[penguintruth]

Those are all situations where he had no choice. Goku, Piccolo, Vegeta, Trunks, they're all there at the Cell Games. He didn't believe he was the only hope until Cell killed #16.

He did have no choice. Goku, his father and the person he looked up to, had forfeited the battle and put the fate of the planet in his hands. Goku, who Gohan thought had been holding back and was surprised to have not been, had left the responsibility of killing Cell up to him. Piccolo, Vegeta and Trunks are all weaker than him. He knew that he was the only hope, but instead did a 180, became a pacifist and let Cell smoke him.

He was clearly in disbelief over his father's words. And to say he "did a 180" is a massive exaggeration, considering his character.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Those are all situations where he had no choice. Goku, Piccolo, Vegeta, Trunks, they're all there at the Cell Games. He didn't believe he was the only hope until Cell killed #16.

He did have no choice. Goku, his father and the person he looked up to, had forfeited the battle and put the fate of the planet in his hands. Goku, who Gohan thought had been holding back and was surprised to have not been, had left the responsibility of killing Cell up to him. Piccolo, Vegeta and Trunks are all weaker than him. He knew that he was the only hope, but instead did a 180, became a pacifist and let Cell smoke him.

He was clearly in disbelief over his father's words. And to say he "did a 180" is a massive exaggeration, considering his character.

Disbelief at first, yes. So you're telling me he didn't believe that he was the only hope now? After Goku had given up and left the battle to him? I don't believe that.

And OK, he didn't do a 180. But it was still something Gohan wouldn't do. Even though he's not a fighter and doesn't have the greatest confidence in himself, he still fights with all he's got, as seen in the Freeza arc. In the Cell arc, it was just the same.

[penguintruth]

Well, first of all, the only way to get to Gohan's potential was to get him enraged enough, but then when he was properly enraged, he was too angry to finish Cell off right away, wanting him to suffer for what he was doing. Gohan doesn't really have the battle smarts his father has.

[Rocketman]

Those events put everyone into a shock, why should Gohan be blamed?

Because he's supposed to replace Goku. The guy who got three limbs broken and got right back the fuck up and punched a hole in King Piccolo; the guy who pushed his body to the absolute limit against Vegeta and when finally cornered and broken, destroys Vegeta's eye just to spite him.

[penguintruth]

Those events put everyone into a shock, why should Gohan be blamed?

Because he's supposed to replace Goku. The guy who got three limbs broken and got right back the fuck up and punched a hole in King Piccolo; the guy who pushed his body to the absolute limit against Vegeta and when finally cornered and broken, destroys Vegeta's eye just to spite him.

Hey, Gohan's still new to world saving.

[Perfect]

Gohan tried to fight Cell, he failed. He didn't want to tap into his power. He wouldn't be able to control it (This is very true, he allowed Cell brief chances for victory because of his rage and ager). You also have to take into account that #16 wasn't going to come back once Cell murdered him in front of Gohan. The bird flying in Gohan's eyes signifies the life that 16 loved, all he cared for. Going from a heartless machine to that of emotion filled lifeform. It all seems rather justified.
Picture yourself as an 11 year old, you're fighting a battle you've already lost. You know if you get cornered, you risk your friends lives, if you don't you still risk it. He was faced with a dilemma that not many 11 year olds, could handle. It wasn't ever a lose to lose situation for him before.