.

[Rocketman]

Disagreed. Vegeta completed his evolution to hero of Earth. "They're in your hands now Vegeta".

At the very tail end of the series so Toei doesn't actually have to draw someone besides ~GOKU~ being important.

[Bussani]

I'm merely saying Gt having Goku be a god is nothing new to Db

Not new to the movies, maybe, but a problem being old doesn't make it less of a problem.

and not really bad writing.

Yes, it really is. Whether it bothers you or not is one thing, but it's definitely something that writers should avoid.

[Mountain]

I just watched all 64 episodes, including the special, in Japanese. To call GT 'boring' would be a severe understatement; it truly is a trying series.

[Taku128]

There's also no character development whatsoever in GT

Disagreed. Vegeta completed his evolution to hero of Earth. "They're in your hands now Vegeta".

This is a dub-only line that never appears in the original version. In Japanese Goku just says "See you later, Vegeta." This "character development" doesn't actually exist.

Rocketman if you're going to get mad at someone it should be FUNi for getting your hopes up.

[coola]

Personally,the only thing i really hate in GT,is Piccolo dead,he didnt have to die

[TonyTheTiger]

Piccolo ending up as essentially the ruler of Hell actually isn't a plot point I dislike. I think it works in a subtly ironic way. But, as others have said, the execution was pretty piss poor. Piccolo didn't get nearly enough screen time and the actual event that got him there was stupid.

[NeoKING]

Piccolo ending up as essentially the ruler of Hell actually isn't a plot point I dislike. I think it works in a subtly ironic way. But, as others have said, the execution was pretty piss poor. Piccolo didn't get nearly enough screen time and the actual event that got him there was stupid.

How was it stupid again? The catch about the Ultimate/Black Star Dragon Balls was that a year after their use the planet they were used on will explode. The plot simply stayed consistent with that.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Piccolo dying permanently was stupid because all the good guys who died always got brought back to life. Even Goku, who couldn't be revived and actually wanted to stay dead, had a god give him his life force so he could come back to life (and then that same god got brought back to life too). This was the only instance that broke the "rule" and just killed off Piccolo for good. You know, the same series that has guys getting killed and brought back to life like nothing, whether it be by the Namek DBs, the Great Elder shenanigans or some other retarded plot twist.

[B]

It might have helped a tad if Piccolo had been relevant and didn't just show up all "Welp, time to die" like. Unless I'm forgetting something.

[Cipher]

Piccolo dying is stupid? In a series that trivializes the death of main characters to the point that it's a non-issue by the Buu arc, permanently offing Piccolo is a bad thing?

One of my favorite things about the series (besides the art direction and soundtrack) is Toei's willingness to add actual consequences. It's a major motif in GT. Characters (Piccolo, Buu) die permanently. Wronged races come back for revenge. The Dragon Balls can't be a fix-all (seen through both the ultimate Dragon Balls and the Evil Dragons). Krillin is old while Goku and Kame-Sennin haven't changed. Goku goes away. Even the final wish to revive everyone very pointedly leaves the Earth in shambles.

So Piccolo ends up in Hell. Sometimes things aren't perfect. It's kind of nice and down-to-Earth to see the series go in a direction that doesn't involve completely happy resolutions and automatic fixes.

It might have helped a tad if Piccolo had been relevant and didn't just show up all "Welp, time to die" like. Unless I'm forgetting something.

I do agree that the lack of build-up is a bit awkward. But no one will convince me that Piccolo's death was a bad choice in and of itself. It's right in line with where the series was going, and a nice change from what had come before.

[NeoKING]

It might have helped a tad if Piccolo had been relevant and didn't just show up all "Welp, time to die" like. Unless I'm forgetting something.

Kinda saved Gohan(or Goten) from Baby Goten(or Gohan). But then, he died right after, so...

[B]

I do agree that the lack of build-up is a bit awkward. But no one will convince me that Piccolo's death was a bad choice in and of itself. It's right in line with where the series was going, and a nice change from what had come before.

Oh, no, there's nothing wrong with what happens, it's just GT being GT and executing its plot haphazardly.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Piccolo dying is stupid? In a series that trivializes the death of main characters to the point that it's a non-issue by the Buu arc, permanently offing Piccolo is a bad thing?

Goku dies "permanently" and doesn't even want to be revived, but then ends up being brought back to life by the old Kaioshin anyway (while totally negating the ending of the Cell arc). Piccolo, however, dies permanently and that's the be-all, end-all. He does fuck all in the series, then gets offed. And stuck in Hell. Only him.

And btw, this isn't me being biased. I would be saying the same thing if it was Gohan, Vegeta or any of the other good guys.

[TripleRach]

Piccolo dying is stupid? In a series that trivializes the death of main characters to the point that it's a non-issue by the Buu arc, permanently offing Piccolo is a bad thing?

One of my favorite things about the series (besides the art direction and soundtrack) is Toei's willingness to add actual consequences. It's a major motif in GT. Characters (Piccolo, Buu) die permanently. Wronged races come back for revenge. The Dragon Balls can't be a fix-all (seen through both the ultimate Dragon Balls and the Evil Dragons). Krillin is old while Goku and Kame-Sennin haven't changed. Goku goes away. Even the final wish to revive everyone very pointedly leaves the Earth in shambles.

So Piccolo ends up in Hell. Sometimes things aren't perfect. It's kind of nice and down-to-Earth to see the series go in a direction that doesn't involve completely happy resolutions and automatic fixes.

In theory, those are all great ideas. My problem is the way they happened in practice.

I mean, Piccolo willingly killed himself because he wanted to get rid of the Ultimate Dragon Balls. Even though he of all people should know there are other ways of getting rid of a set of Dragon Balls. It's out of character for him to suddenly become depressed and give up like that. He had previously been content with his life, and knew he had valuable wisdom to share. Had he actually been killed by a villain and chosen to stay dead, that might have been a little better, but instead he simply chooses to give up on life and stand around on an exploding planet. It's one of the most pointless and dishonorable ways to permanently kill off a character like him.

Boo's death was at least better written than that, but it still ended up being ultimately pointless when Oob still turned out to be worthless with that power up. Imagine if they'd done that with God and Piccolo in the Cell arc. They have the big moment and rejoin, only for first form Cell to swat him around like a fly until Gokuu saves the day.

I don't particularly have a problem with Piccolo going to Hell either, aside from the fact that all the events leading up to it (GT Gokuu having trouble with Freeza and Cell, Freeza and Cell being there at all, the way Piccolo got to Hell in the first place, etc) make my brain bleed.

[Gaffer Tape]

Imagine if they'd done that with God and Piccolo in the Cell arc. They have the big moment and rejoin, only for first form Cell to swat him around like a fly until Gokuu saves the day.

To be honest... they kinda did. Piccolo holds his own in two completely meaningless fights, and then immediately becomes useless for the rest of the arc.

I was tempted to write what Cipher ended up writing, but I felt I couldn't since I haven't actually seen that part of GT. I agree that it's nice to finally have some permanent consequences to death, something real Dragon Ball had pretty much given up on long ago. But since I haven't seen it, I have no idea if the execution was anything worth the paper it was written on.

[TripleRach]

Imagine if they'd done that with God and Piccolo in the Cell arc. They have the big moment and rejoin, only for first form Cell to swat him around like a fly until Gokuu saves the day.

To be honest... they kinda did. Piccolo holds his own in two completely meaningless fights, and then immediately becomes useless for the rest of the arc.

The problem was that GT took it to an extreme. Piccolo at least had 15 minutes of glory before he became irrelevant again. Oob barely had 15 seconds.

Although I guess GT wasn't the first to take it to that extreme. It happened before when Gohan's Kaioushin power up became useless almost instantly, after all the buildup it had. I don't give Toriyama a pass for that either. (Just a note that I hope all the "You only hate GT because Toriyama wasn't involved" nonsense is over.)

[Rocketman]

Piccolo dying is stupid? In a series that trivializes the death of main characters to the point that it's a non-issue by the Buu arc, permanently offing Piccolo is a bad thing?

Quoting myself from a similar thread:

"It's more that Piccolo's entire showing in GT is

-Get 'killed' by Gohan
-Reappear, suck Goku's dick
-Die to fix a problem that's not a problem
-Get stuck in Hell forever (to help ~GOKU~, natch)"

[p123]

Piccolo was nothing in the Buu Saga. So obviously he would be nothing in GT. But godamn, Uub is as irrelevant as it gets, to think Goku waited 10 years for him, for him to be so utterly useless, is just sucky..

[Piccolo Daimao]

Piccolo was nothing in the Buu Saga. So obviously he would be nothing in GT.

I actually found his role in the Boo arc as Goten and Trunks' mentor and his antics with Gotenks quite entertaining. Just because he can't fight doesn't mean he needs to be tossed out of the story after practically doing nothing.

[Gaffer Tape]

Piccolo was nothing in the Buu Saga. So obviously he would be nothing in GT.

I actually found his role in the Boo arc as Goten and Trunks' mentor and his antics with Gotenks quite entertaining, actually. Just because he can't fight doesn't mean he needs to be tossed out of the story after practically doing nothing.

I agree with this. Putting him in a mentor role was golden, especially after the last two arcs had built him up as uber-super-powerful god for about two seconds only for him to have his ass handed to him before he gets a chance to do anything useful.