The gap between #17 and #18?

[Nazi Cola]

How big do you think it is?

[dbgtFO]

Not much.
220/260 is what I have.
I don't see the need to have a giant gap between them like #17 being twice as strong as #18, since Piccolo with weights was able to rival the both of them, which suggests a small gap IMO.

[Nazi Cola]

Would it be big enough for Piccolo to have beaten her if she'd fought him instead? Her comment about Piccolo being tough for fighting #17 kind of makes me think the gap between them is bigger than some would give credit to. She didn't seem to say it in the "he used to be so weak so how is he doing this" way IMO.

[dbgtFO]

Would it be big enough for Piccolo to have beaten her if she'd fought him instead?

I believe so, since a gap worth mentioning (done by none other than the narrator himself!) means it's a significant gap and since Piccolo was equal to #17, Piccolo would have beaten #18 no doubt about it.

She didn't seem to say it in the "he used to be so weak so how is he doing this" way IMO.

This I don't get. The fact that she isn't peeing her pants, when seeing Piccolo fighting equally with #17 suggests a small gap, don't you think? Although #18 is pretty stupid like when she thought Piccolo and #17 held back against Cell and wasn't even scared one bit, when Cell showed how strong he was...

[Kaboom]

I'd say it's a relatively small gap, since even though 18 is said to be somewhat suppressed, the two are always treated as counterparts in a "if you can't beat one, then you can't beat the other" kind of way. But it would be enough to make a difference in a fight.

To use a numerical example, my latest arbitrary figures for them are 295 million for 17 and 275 million for 18. 17 would probably beat Piccolo (300 million) in their drawn-out battle due to his stamina advantage, but 18 would be toast.

Burnt toast.

[Godo]

I would agree with there being a difference, but not enough to make one of them too much superior to the other one.
My list would probably be like this:

1) Piccolo: 320 million
2) 17: 300 million
3) 18: 280 million

with 16 being 365 million and Imperfect Cell (Earthling juiced) at 375 million, and of course Kaio's blue balls at 100 million.

[Nazi Cola]

Hm, I see people putting Piccolo a bit stronger than #17. Not that I disagree, but what would be the reasoning for this? The fight seemed pretty even before Cell showed up.

[Kaboom]

Well, he was still considered capable of killing #17, as far as I can remember. What made the battle so even was his power stalemating with #17's infinite stamina.

[Fox666]

I'd say it's a relatively small gap, since even though 18 is said to be somewhat suppressed, the two are always treated as counterparts in a "if you can't beat one, then you can't beat the other" kind of way.

I Completely agree.

But didn't the series suggested that Piccolo and N.17 were equals?

Chapter: 368 (DBZ 174), P8.3
No.18: “He really is tough. He’s on par with No.17.”

Chapter: 368 (DBZ 174), P14.3
No.17: “Heh. Even if our power in on par, it looks like a gap is starting to open up between our stamina…My energy is infinite, and never falls…”

As far I can tell, Piccolo was loosing once the stamina played the hole.

[CatouttaHell]

By my levels:

#17 - 750,000,000
#18 - 730,000,000

[Fox666]

http://daizex.fanboyreview.net/viewtopi ... 02#p424502

[In Brightest Day]

From what I remember, Piccolo was kicking #17's ass when they got into hand-to-hand combat in the early going, and the battle really only started to become more even once Piccolo started tiering out. So Piccolo being superior to both Androids individually makes sense.

[penguintruth]

Huh. I was never under the impression either was more powerful than the other.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I also think the difference between them isn't significant.

Sure, #17 boasts about how he's the "most powerful being in the world", but he doesn't have to be a lot stronger than her to make such a claim.

[lash]

1.255x difference.

My NumBas:
270 million for 17
215 million for 18

Explanation: 17 states no one in the universe rivals his power. Going by Raditz and a saibaman's official battle power... 1.25x or smaller difference in fighting power would constitute as "rivaling".

[Fox666]

From what I remember, Piccolo was kicking #17's ass when they got into hand-to-hand combat in the early going, and the battle really only started to become more even once Piccolo started tiering out. So Piccolo being superior to both Androids individually makes sense.

That doesn't happen. The battle follow this logic:
- 17 gets distracted by a comment of 16, and Piccolo kicks 17 ass, however 17 is unharmed
- Piccolo fires a bunch of homming blasts, 17 protects himself with a force field
- 17 kicks Piccolo ass, however Piccolo is unharmed
- The rest of the fight before Cell appear is an even exchange of hits

[Cipher]

Huh. I was never under the impression either was more powerful than the other.

I never used to think so either, but when I went through my Dragon Box 4, I do remember a few lines changing my mind.

Anyway, he can't be stronger by all that much. They're siblings, have the same height and build, and both have Gero's energy-amplifiers. My guess is that the only reason he's supposed to be stronger is because he's a boy. So it shouldn't account for much.

[Fox666]

Actually Gero made them a little different, it was stated in a special page in the manga



No.17: “Too much emphasis was placed on his power, resulting in him being a failure who doesn't listen to orders.”
No.18: “Her power is more suppressed than No.17's, but in the end she too is a failure who doesn't listen to orders.”

[SonGokuh]

Like most of the above posters, I estimate the gap to be between 20 and 50 million.

[Floader]

I put 18 at about 85% of 17's power. A significant difference but not enough that 18 couldn't put up a little fight. I usually think of it as 18 being on par with weighted Piccolo with 17 being on par with full power Piccolo