Why is Buu so hated?

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
User avatar
askani son
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 323
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 4:46 pm
Location: That place with no paddle.

Post by askani son » Sat Jul 30, 2005 1:10 pm

I got it! (Damn lack of internet this week)
I feel like I have ashamed myself. Here's me calling myself a fan... :cry:
LOL. And BTW, the question is (according to good ol' Mr Dent)
"What is six times nine?" :wink:

To stay on topic, I always liked the Buu saga because of the transformations and fusions. Vegetto rocks and Vegeta's reaction when Goku tell's him the fusion is permanent is priceless.
"I'd rather die than fuse with you!"
"Um...Vegeta, you're already dead."

Victator Supreme
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 907
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2004 2:45 am

.

Post by Victator Supreme » Sun Jul 31, 2005 8:26 am

Buu is my third favorite Dragonball storyarc. I personally find it to be better than the Cell saga.

I thought there was much more character development. In Vegeta finally becoming a good person, Gohan learning his true potential and Mr.Satan becoming a true hero.


I think Buu was a better villian than Cell. I think Buu commited many more truly evil acts. While many of the things Cell did could be justified to an extent.

It expanded the Dragonball universe with concepts like fusion, Super Saiyan 3, and the Kaioshins.


Finally I think the ending was better. Goku isn't the one who stopped Buu. It took the help of every person on Earth (and new Namek) to save Bthe universe.

User avatar
Li'l Lemmy
I Live Here
Posts: 2456
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:21 am
Location: Massachusetts
Contact:

Buu?

Post by Li'l Lemmy » Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:08 pm

The Buu saga dub was the first saga of DBZ I got to see nearly all of . . . and since it was also the first saga I taped off of CN, I watched the hell out of it again and again. Then I scooped up the DVDs and watched the Japanese version, and in both the original and the dub I would find now and then a reference to the previous sagas that would get me curious about the events that happened before Buu. That curiosity is about where my fandom really started to take off, and I started to take in the other sagas one by one and work my way backwards.

However, speaking for the Buu saga:

No matter what the end result would be, I don't envy Mr. Toriyama for the task he had at hand. The final saga of Dragonball Z must have been the most difficult to envision and create, being that after Frieza and Cell had come and gone fans were likely expecting Mr. Toriyama to outdo himself in the most incredible fashion and conclude the series on its highest note ever. Whether he did or not is a matter of opinion, but I think an important point to bring up is that it's really much better if you can watch the rest of DBZ before making your opinion on the Buu are your final one. DBZ really does all come together once you've seen it in order, at least for me.

Fusion was amusing, and I think it harkens back to the older days of Dragonball in that (despite the major power-up) it's just very silly and fun. That Mr. Toriyama stuck something like that in what by Buu was the fully matured and a fairly serious DBZ is almost classic in a way, I think, as if it were a hallmark of the man's sense of humor.

I can forgive that Fat Buu later morphs into a series of death-and-destruction forms if only to have the saga start with Fat Buu and end with Kid Buu. Fat Buu is unlike anything we ever see in DBZ, and it wouldn't have suited the series to have a powered-up version of Frieza or Cell with the constant mentality to conquer and kill. He is very powerful and malicious but not in quite the same way as his predecessors; his real motive, if you can even call it that, is probably just to have fun. That it's at the Earth's expense isn't even really his fault, which leaves his character open for change and development.

Kid Buu is almost a polar opposite. He isn't merely more powerful than the other bad guys, he's flat-out crazy with no real sense of pride or motivation that kept Cell and Freeza going. His delight in killing and death is unbelievable and his only purpose is to do as much of it as possible . . . if Frieza or Cell is the train you can see coming down the track, then Kid Buu is the train grinding over your body as it screams past. And in that respect, he is the most intense foe Goku or Vegeta face, and the universe really does hang in the balance.

Something that always tickled my mind was the introduction of Super Saiyajin 3. It's truly awesome. But thinking back on how and where it was integrated into the story, I can't help but imagine other ways it could have been done.

I once heard someone say that SSJ3 was cheap eye-candy and over-the-top. I don't agree with that myself, but I've heard some pretty strong opinions on the matter. There's people out there who say another Super Saiyajin stage was unnecessary and those who believe it was absolutely vital because every saga before that had introduced a higher power.

And then there's the bunch of in-betweeners who simply disagree who should have been the strongest Saiyajin during that period.

Who says that it had to be Goku? Maybe it should have been limited to Gotenks. Which one is really a personal choice, but definitely I think it would have been better for SSJ3 to have been displayed by one or the other and not both. It's not necessarily cheap to have both of them reach that level, but sometimes it feels like the SSJ3 transformation is brought out every now and again just to remind us that it exists . . . like when Goku shows it off to Trunks and Goten, or when Gotenks says he can use the form for "an incredibly short time" but wastes all the time he has nonetheless.

It's a very divisive topic, I've discovered!

If Goku's your pick, then you might be the person who feels a little cheated that Gotenks, a fusion of two children who separately are both unable to reach the second level at all, could when joined ascend to that third godly level with even more ease than Goku himself, or that it somehow makes a mokery of him.

If you want the SSJ3 to be Gotenks, your argument could be that you find it difficult to believe that Goku could find the second level, transcend it completely and stumble upon the third in just seven years. Gotenks' incredible power could, after all, be attributed to Fusion . . . and perhaps that's the only way SSJ3 could and should be reached by one individual without Goku having had at least a few more years' worth of training.

Along similar lines, the idea has been given that perhaps things like SSJ3 and Fusion could have been saved for the final conflict with Kid Buu to make those episodes even more progressive, as opposed to introducing them as techniques that debut against but don't kill Buu's weaker forms. If I look at the Buu arc from beginning to end, it looks like there are plenty of opportunities to obliterate this unbelievable menace that for some reason or other are lost . . . the fight between Goku and Fat Buu, the fight between Gotenks and Super Buu, the fight between Gohan and Super Buu; the list goes on . . . and it seems almost as if the Saiyajins had control of the situation all along. The only other example I can think of where something like that happened outside of the Buu saga was when Vegeta allowed Cell to absorb 18 and become perfect, but that was really more about the ferocity of Vegeta's pride; a recurring theme throughout all the sagas, so as outrageous as Vegeta's foolishness was it still feels like it has substance . . . but what could the point be to SSJ3 Gotenks' fusion running out just as he's about to annihilate Super Buu? Was it to drag out the arc even longer? . . . well, actually, yes it was; Gohan hadn't finished his training yet, and I'll wager just about all of us wanted to see if THAT bore fruit.

Even so. A lot of DBZ is failing to match up against an overwhelming opponent, but in the Buu arc the opportunities are given away in great numbers . . . it's just a little strange to me.

Another subject I hear a lot about is the fact that Trunks and Goten are Super Saiyajins at such a young age. I never saw a problem with that myself, since I think it would be only natural that each Saiyan generation would be more powerful than the last . . . but more than a few people have a problem with miniature Super Saiyajins, so I suppose it's worth mentioning.

All of this doesn't mean that I don't like the Buu saga; quite to the contrary, in fact. I just like to pick the meat off the bones, so to speak, but the truth is that perhaps it really couldn't have been handled any better than the way it was. It would have been too obvious for either Goten or Trunks to be another super-powerful youth who would win the day in the same fashion Gohan triumphed against Cell, though it's certainly expected and appropriate that the two are as powerful as they are.

And that's my two cents . . . whew! Who's next??


(Li'l Lemmy, wishing he knew when to shut up.)
Goten of Japan wrote:Don't go 9... Go 10! (Go-ten. Goten. Get it? DOOD.)
The NUMBER ONE Goten fan, and a fucking epic one at that.

User avatar
Son Goku
Regular
Posts: 628
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 9:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Buu?

Post by Son Goku » Wed Aug 03, 2005 10:33 pm

I just noticed something, when we first saw Buu, he was cute, hilarious and sometimes serious (just like how Dragonball started). Towards the end, though, he was very serious and a little comical at times (like how Dragonball(in the anime world, Dragonball Z) was from the Raditz fight on)

(Son Goku, who wishes he had enough of an attention span to read all of what Li'l Lemmy just said :P
I also go by "veemonjosh".

User avatar
Majin Buu
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1309
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 2:23 pm

Re: Buu?

Post by Majin Buu » Thu Aug 04, 2005 2:38 am

Son Goku wrote:I just noticed something, when we first saw Buu, he was cute, hilarious and sometimes serious (just like how Dragonball started). Towards the end, though, he was very serious and a little comical at times (like how Dragonball(in the anime world, Dragonball Z) was from the Raditz fight on)

(Son Goku, who wishes he had enough of an attention span to read all of what Li'l Lemmy just said :P
Now that's a thought. Buu being the last villian is a metaphor for the evolution of the series. I doubt it was intentional though.

User avatar
Mirai Trunks´s Nr. 1 fan
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 97
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 12:19 pm
Location: Iceland

Post by Mirai Trunks´s Nr. 1 fan » Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:03 pm

ChaotixXero wrote:And I didn't really like the ending, Goku leaves his family again to train a stranger.
Well I wouldn´t call Uub a stranger, since he´s the reincarnated Kid Buu...

I don´t like some partsof the plot of the Buu saga for example the need of a reason for Buu to kill people. But there were also parts I like for example Vegeta´s sacrifice. I also like most of the battles which I think is the best part of the Buu saga.
^I´m with stupid^

How to keep a blonde occupied, see below.
How to keep a blonde occupied, see above.

User avatar
Mr. Robot
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 91
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 2:00 pm

Post by Mr. Robot » Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:11 pm

Buu is the only villain without a purpose. This could have been used to the saga's advantage: it could have been, in some way, about finding purpose, whether Buu eventually found his to be good or bad. Instead, just as this "purpose-driven" plot is begininning to (just maybe) bear fruit, Buu goes through a transformation and Toriyama begins pulling several of these out of his ass.

A villain that has purpose is interesting. A villain that has no purpose and starts to, or wants to--or whatever--find it can be interesting. A villain like Kid Buu whose purpose is just to mindlessly kill for the sake of killing is not very interesting at all.

User avatar
Son Goku
Regular
Posts: 628
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 9:03 pm
Contact:

Post by Son Goku » Sat Aug 20, 2005 3:01 pm

Is that considered necro-posting or not?
I also go by "veemonjosh".

User avatar
SaiyaJedi
Kanzenshuu Co-Owner & Administrator
Posts: 2387
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 11:24 pm
Location: Osaka
Contact:

Post by SaiyaJedi » Sat Aug 20, 2005 8:10 pm

Son Goku wrote:Is that considered necro-posting or not?
Let the moderators concern themselves with that.

While I consider the above borderline, he does have an interesting point for discussion -- and it's not poorly-typed or completely irrelevant. But please -- unless somebody's really being a moron, let the mods handle it. Thanks.
Co-translator, Man-in-Japan, and Julian #1 at Kanzenshuu
最近、あんまし投稿してないねんけど、見てんで。いっつも見てる。

User avatar
TheMajinRedComet
Patreon Supporter
Posts: 592
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:56 pm
Location: Space

Post by TheMajinRedComet » Mon Aug 29, 2005 9:20 pm

I reason why i didnt like Buu saga, was because Buu wouldnt stay down and i wasnt fond of Goku's let the Kids handle it point of view.
Hiei: "So tell me - what's it like living in a constant haze of Stupidity?"
Hiei: "I know as much about games as I do puppies and huggs....Wake me up for the end of world"
Welcome to Super Vegeta's Big Bang Attack.... Welcome to Oblivion!!!
Remember "When things get weird, skip the last saga"-Chris Sabat

User avatar
Conan the SSJ
I Live Here
Posts: 2814
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 8:40 am
Location: Ohio

Post by Conan the SSJ » Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:06 pm

TheMajinRedComet wrote:I reason why i didnt like Buu saga, was because Buu wouldnt stay down and i wasnt fond of Goku's let the Kids handle it point of view.
Buu stayed down, after he blew himself up against Gohan he layed dorment for an hour so he could absorb Gotenks and Piccolo.
14 years later

User avatar
Super Saiyan Turlast x4
I Live Here
Posts: 3411
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2005 12:45 am
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Post by Super Saiyan Turlast x4 » Tue Aug 30, 2005 5:26 pm

There was no way for Buu to stay down. The only possible way there was to finish him was a highly destructive attack. Everyone keep's saying Vegito, Gotenks, and Mystic Gohan could have beat Buu. I completely disagree with that argument.
"First I whip it out! Then I thrust it! With great force! Every angle...! It penetrates! Until...! With great strength...! I... ram it in! In the end... We are all satisfied... And you are set free...!" ~Dante~

User avatar
TheMajinRedComet
Patreon Supporter
Posts: 592
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:56 pm
Location: Space

Post by TheMajinRedComet » Tue Aug 30, 2005 9:40 pm

Vegito and Gohan could have killed him, Vegito for sure could of killed him if he wanted to.
Hiei: "So tell me - what's it like living in a constant haze of Stupidity?"
Hiei: "I know as much about games as I do puppies and huggs....Wake me up for the end of world"
Welcome to Super Vegeta's Big Bang Attack.... Welcome to Oblivion!!!
Remember "When things get weird, skip the last saga"-Chris Sabat

User avatar
Dayspring
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 7753
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 6:00 pm
Location: Quebec, Canada

Post by Dayspring » Wed Aug 31, 2005 10:04 am

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:There was no way for Buu to stay down. The only possible way there was to finish him was a highly destructive attack. Everyone keep's saying Vegito, Gotenks, and Mystic Gohan could have beat Buu. I completely disagree with that argument.
Vegito proved he could when he destroyed that bit of Buu. Gohan we don't know, but judging over how Fat Buu was stated to have been losing ki against Chibi Buu, we can assume that EVENTUALLY he probably would have found some way (otherwise why would Buu hide from him). Concerning Gotenks, I agree with you since we saw Buu's bits regenerate.
Captain Christopher Pike wrote:The away team will consist of myself, Cadet Kirk, Mr. Sulu, and Ensign Olsen.
Freeza Heika wrote: for the land of the cool, and the home of the Appule
The Geeky Gentleman: For all your comics, movies, TV and other geeky needs.

User avatar
Majin Buu
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1309
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 2:23 pm

Post by Majin Buu » Sun Sep 04, 2005 6:48 pm

Mr. Robot wrote: A villain like Kid Buu whose purpose is just to mindlessly kill for the sake of killing is not very interesting at all.
Still, in that light he does have a purpose. While not a deep or interesting one at least it's something.

And Buu said he couldn't let anyone become stronger than him so in that light his purpose could also be to be the strongest being alive in addition to killing and destroying.

Post Reply