Dragonball Kai (FUNimation English) Dub: General Discussion

[Turtle Marked Stone]

Just sit back and enjoy the damn show, and don't criticize every little thing you can find just because that wasn't in the original. Shit I can't imagine watching Kai like this, basically grading it rather than actually WATCHING it.

If you don't care about the changes made to the program that's fine. However some people want it to be a very accurate representation of the show they're translating. They explicitly told us that's what they were aiming for so it doesn't seem unreasonable to focus on lines that deviate or terminology that deviates from the original intention.

I'm pretty sure people watch it...then grade it. I'm surprised discussing what a show did right or wrong on an episode by episode basis is a foreign or ridiculous concept to you. They have entire forums for other shows dedicated to doing that very thing. There's been tons of praise in this thread for the show along with criticism. It's not like this has been 200 something pages of complaints. Hell a lot of the reply's in here after an episode airs are "good as usual". There's no need to get worked up over this buddy.

[MetalMadness]

If you don't care about the changes made to the program that's fine. However some people want it to be a very accurate representation of the show they're translating. They explicitly told us that's what they were aiming for so it doesn't seem unreasonable to focus on lines that deviate or terminology that deviates from the original intention.

I'm pretty sure people watch it...then grade it. I'm surprised discussing what a show did right or wrong on an episode by episode basis is a foreign or ridiculous concept to you. They have entire forums for other shows dedicated to doing that very thing. There's been tons of praise in this thread for the show along with criticism. It's not like this has been 200 something pages of complaints. Hell a lot of the reply's in here after an episode airs are "good as usual". There's no need to get worked up over this buddy.

I'm not getting worked up, I suppose it's just hard to tell somebody's tone over the internet.

I too would love to see the show treated with respect and given an accurate translation and proper representation of what the series is about. I am definitely not one who supports changes like "Cat loves food," or "Dr Gero was the leader of the Red Ribben army."

Of course it is perfectly fine to criticize a show based on what has been done right and wrong, but every day the crowd here really just can not be satisfied. There's always something wrong with the show, to the point where I find that people here are just looking for things to nitpick and complain about, rather than enjoy the show.

I mean, people are actually complaining about the use of the word "Android." Are you guys really telling me that when you sit and watch the show, you're going to cringe with anger every time they use the word "Android?"

It just feels a little... embarrassing to be reading comments like this. If members from other communities and forums came to see comments like this, what would their opinions of us be?
It's just like way back in the summer when Ayres said his first line, and everybody came in criticizing him and saying their disappointment, it really just doesn't give the site a good image.

[Kirbopher]

As far as I'm concerned, "Android" is the "official translation" that both the Japanese AND the English go with for the most part. We've had this discussion a thousand times, we KNOW what Jinzoningen -actually- means, people get the idea. It's simply easier for them to stick with what's already been established and not have 3 different words interchanging depending on what kind of translation of the word best applies to the character. Yes, Artificial Human is technically more accurate, but at this point, I don't even think it's that big of a deal.

[Rory]

As far as I'm concerned, "Android" is the "official translation" that both the Japanese AND the English go with for the most part.

When do the Japanese ever "go with" the term 'Android'?

[Turtle Marked Stone]

I'm not getting worked up, I suppose it's just hard to tell somebody's tone over the internet.
I too would love to see the show treated with respect and given an accurate translation and proper representation of what the series is about. I am definitely not one who supports changes like "Cat loves food," or "Dr Gero was the leader of the Red Ribben army."

Of course it is perfectly fine to criticize a show based on what has been done right and wrong, but every day the crowd here really just can not be satisfied. There's always something wrong with the show, to the point where I find that people here are just looking for things to nitpick and complain about, rather than enjoy the show.

I mean, people are actually complaining about the use of the word "Android." Are you guys really telling me that when you sit and watch the show, you're going to cringe with anger every time they use the word "Android?"

It just feels a little... embarrassing to be reading comments like this. If members from other communities and forums came to see comments like this, what would their opinions of us be?
It's just like way back in the summer when Ayres said his first line, and everybody came in criticizing him and saying their disappointment, it really just doesn't give the site a good image.

I'm not so sure that the crowed here "can't be satisfied". One of the harshest critics of the dub PenguinTruth (whom I hope doesn't mind that I'm referencing him) has repeatedly stated despite some flaws here and there this is a pretty decent dub in his book. I think a lot of people are praising this dub if you go back. As I said anytime an episode airs I usually see a lot of "Good as always, Ayres is excellent! I really liked when Sean etc. etc." posts. Recently the only complaints have been script changes which I have explained a few times already why I don't think think that subject is irrational to be annoyed about.

I'm not sure people are complaining about the word "Android". I think they're just discussing it and what it means. I don't think people are mad about it or anything. It just sounds like a typical "what would be a good translation for this word?" conversation. As you said maybe it's just hard to judge tone over the internet. It's possible you're just getting annoyed at the length of the discussion. If this was a mono a mono conversation this topic would have been done by now but when you have a potential 1000 plus members wanting to chime in on something it's going to last awhile.

I can understand being annoyed at over analysis. If it's not a subject you feel is worth investing the time and effort into it's going to seem obnoxious. Some people ARE invested in this kind of thing though and you can't stop them from analyzing it. I hate the majority of in universe discussions but I just have to deal with it when it leaks into other parts of the forum. Puar Vs. Oolong doesn't seem the slightest bit important to me and as you said it's a tad embarrassing to even think about people going this far personally but hey it's a topic people are invested in and this is totally the proper time and place to discuss it so I'm not going to be mad or complain about it.

[VegettoEX]

Honestly guys, when 90% of the people who purchase Kai and watch, they will not even notice, or give a shit for that matter, if 17 and 18 are referred to as "Androids," "Cyborgs," or "Artificial Humans."

Just sit back and enjoy the damn show, and don't criticize every little thing you can find just because that wasn't in the original. Shit I can't imagine watching Kai like this, basically grading it rather than actually WATCHING it.

At the risk of repeating other users and even myself...

Don't tell other people how to discuss things they want to discuss. If you don't have anything to contribute and even feel that it's not worth discussing in the first place... well, don't post about it and just go about your business elsewhere. Everyone else seems perfectly cool, collected, and enjoying themselves... so why rain on the parade just because you think it's silly?

This is a large message board that is an extension of a large website that bases itself around the original Japanese version of the franchise. If you don't want to read things comparing it to the original version, find somewhere else to read and post.

[batistabus]

From the sound of the dialog, it seems like whoever wrote the script doesn't know there's a huge personality difference between "Future Trunks" and "Young Trunks".

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

"Android" is a pretty standard translation of jinzou-ningen; the Japanese Wikipedia page for jinzou-ningen is linked to the English Wikipedia page for "android", and refers to it as a general term for "humanoid robots, androids [here they use the actual English word], gynoids, and bioroids".

Of course, as I always love to point out, there's stuff like the Homunculi in Fullmetal Alchemist, which aren't mechanical at all (they're super-powered humans created by alchemy), but are still called jinzo-ningen. (Indeed, they're called 人造人間/jinzo-ningen with ホムンクルス/homunkurusu as furigana, in the manga.)

Then there's stuff like the Evangelion units, from Neon Genesis Evangelion, which were called 人の作り出した究極の汎用人型決戦兵器、人造人間エヴァンゲリオン ("The ultimate, all-purpose, humanoid combat weapon invented by humanity, the jinzo-ningen Evangelion"). And they're... Like, giant alien clone cyborg thingys.

When do the Japanese ever "go with" the term 'Android'?

Japanese guide books, and other merchandise, refer to them as androids.

[Herms]

Yes, Artificial Human is technically more accurate, but at this point, I don't even think it's that big of a deal.

I wouldn't say there's anything more accurate about using "artificial human" as a translation of jinzou-ningen instead of "android". It's a more literal translation of the kanji, sure, but then the kanji for optometrist (kengan'i), for instance, literally translate to "eye-examining doctor". If a kengan'i happened to pop up in DB, calling him an "eye-examining doctor" would probably work OK, but it'd be kinda unwieldy, contrary to how the term is usually translated, and not any more accurate than just going with "optometrist".

I think using "artificial human" instead of "android" is similar. There's nothing inaccurate with it, but then there's nothing inaccurate about "android" either, and that is the way the term is usually translated. It may be inaccurate to describe 17 and 18 as androids, but then describing them as jinzou-ningen was inaccurate to begin with (or at least this is what Japanese Wikipedia says). If people want to use "artificial human" because they feel it avoids this problem, then they are just trying to cover up an error present in the original version.

When do the Japanese ever "go with" the term 'Android'?

It's the translation for jinzou-ningen used for countless Japanese DB cards, toy packaging, books, video games, etc.

[Ahiru77]

I'm going nuts here. Wikipedia says these episodes haven't even aired yet. Where are you guys watching this ???

[Goku100xKamehameha]

I'm going nuts here. Wikipedia says these episodes haven't even aired yet. Where are you guys watching this ???

Nickoons site, I believe.

[Ahiru77]

I'm going nuts here. Wikipedia says these episodes haven't even aired yet. Where are you guys watching this ???

Nickoons site, I believe.

Oh great.

Youtube isn't even on ep 51. So much for Z Kai here.

[Goku100xKamehameha]

I'm going nuts here. Wikipedia says these episodes haven't even aired yet. Where are you guys watching this ???

Nickoons site, I believe.

Oh great.

Youtube isn't even on ep 51. So much for Z Kai here.

Use Ultra Surf to change the IP address into a US IP address, if you're using Windows.

[Mountain]

This link was previously posted, but some may have missed it:

http://lovelycyborg.com/cyband.php

It's a good read and makes a few interesting points as to why #17 and #18 are cyborgs.

To get back on topic, Vale's voice for Trunks really does nothing for me, now that I've heard it again. I must say that I'm slowly losing interest in the dub, altogether. It's never going to be nearly as good as I want it to be, so I should just stop complaining and stick with the original version that I love so well.

[Gozar]

You know, with all the talking on these forums about discontent with Goku's speech pattern in the Dub, and use of terms like "Android", I'm surprised no one talks about this...

I'm personally really upset that the Dub doesn't have Gohan say "Mr. Piccolo". They use it quite often in the Video Games. But the only time I recall it ever being in the Dub was in the Ocean Dubs of Movies 2 and 3, and maybe one other place (Either the Garlic Jr. Saga or Movie 4) but I'm not sure.

I always found that aspect to be really crucial to Gohan's character and his relationship with Piccolo. So having it not as a part of the Kai Dub was a real let down.

[Cootie]

So, what is the difference between calling them an Android or an Artificial Human? They are both the same definition or really close to it. It seems to me like arguing over if Korin should be referred to as cat or a feline by Yajirobi.

Synonyms, yo.

[Metalwario64]

I'm personally really upset that the Dub doesn't have Gohan say "Mr. Piccolo". They use it quite often in the Video Games. But the only time I recall it ever being in the Dub was in the Ocean Dubs of Movies 2 and 3, and maybe one other place (Either the Garlic Jr. Saga or Movie 4) but I'm not sure.

It was used frequently in the Ocean dubbed episodes up until the Namek arc at least.

[Mountain]

You know, with all the talking on these forums about discontent with Goku's speech pattern in the Dub, and use of terms like "Android", I'm surprised no one talks about this...

I'm personally really upset that the Dub doesn't have Gohan say "Mr. Piccolo". They use it quite often in the Video Games. But the only time I recall it ever being in the Dub was in the Ocean Dubs of Movies 2 and 3, and maybe one other place (Either the Garlic Jr. Saga or Movie 4) but I'm not sure.

I always found that aspect to be really crucial to Gohan's character and his relationship with Piccolo. So having it not as a part of the Kai Dub was a real let down.

That is definitely something that is missing from this dub. Even if not 'Mr. Piccolo', then something similar that shows Gohan's respect for Piccolo. We could get into the whole "should 'Piccolo-san' be used in an English dub" debate, however I personally feel that the use of 'Mr.' or 'sir' might possibly work, as well. 'Mr. Piccolo' really does have a nice ring to it, eh?

[linkdude20002001]

If the original FUNi dub of seasons one and two used "Mr Piccolo", then why doesn't Kai? It's certainly strange. :/

From the sound of the dialog, it seems like whoever wrote the script doesn't know there's a huge personality difference between "Future Trunks" and "Young Trunks".

Exactly. Future Trunks grew up around Bulma and Gohan, and is polite and sweet (though, pretty snarky towards Freeza and Cold). The other Trunks instead grew up around Bulma and VEGETA, so he's a cocky little brat (from what I remember).

[Innagadadavida]

Because they used the Ocean dub scripts. Weeeeeee!!!