Goku - what he's really like

[Piccolo Daimao]

This needs to be immortalized somewhere. Every DB fan should read this.

I didn't know it was so ground-breaking. I thought it would be a pretty standard reading of the series.

Yeah, I felt the same way about Goku's character. It's not mind-blowing.

Although it does show how the main character of the series ends up being pretty boring by the end of it.

[Michsi]

This needs to be immortalized somewhere. Every DB fan should read this.

I didn't know it was so ground-breaking. I thought it would be a pretty standard reading of the series.

Yeah, I felt the same way about Goku's character. It's not mind-blowing.

Although it does show how the main character of the series ends up being pretty boring by the end of it.

I don't know about boring, I always thought it was one of the things that made Goku a little more intersting then yourot your run-of-the-mill super hero.

I wonder if this is also a cultural thing? A lot of shonen heros share a similar trait, always looking for new challenges, getting excited at the prospect of meeting a new opponent, whereas most heros from the western culture (the ones we were exposed to the most) had
Maybe that's why we judge him more fiercly than it might be called for....

But I do find it frustrating that this doesn't get brought up as a serous issue in the series concerning Goku. I really want him to grow as a character aswell.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I didn't know it was so ground-breaking. I thought it would be a pretty standard reading of the series.

Yeah, I felt the same way about Goku's character. It's not mind-blowing.

Although it does show how the main character of the series ends up being pretty boring by the end of it.

I don't know about boring, I always thought it was one of the things that made Goku a little more intersting then yourot your run-of-the-mill super hero.

I wonder if this is also a cultural thing? A lot of shonen heros share a similar trait, always looking for new challenges, getting excited at the prospect of meeting a new opponent, whereas most heros from the western culture (the ones we were exposed to the most) had
Maybe that's why we judge him more fiercly than it might be called for....

But I do find it frustrating that this doesn't get brought up as a serous issue in the series concerning Goku. I really want him to grow as a character aswell.

No, I actually like how Goku isn't a one-dimensional typical superhero guy who flies around saving people from burning buildings. He's not a superhero, he's a martial artist who just happens to save the world every now and then because he gets tangled up in other people's business. I like his naive, innocent, optimistic nature and how it stays with him even when he becomes an adult.

It's just that, post-Freeza arc, I just don't think there was that much more to glean from his character. His character development at that point was done, and he just ended up being a character who gradually got worser as he made stupid decisions in order to fuel his battle addiction (heh, it sounds as if Goku's taking drugs or something).

I dunno, maybe it is just us criticizing too much. I doubt Japanese readers thought Goku was a jerk post-Freeza arc. When I read these parts of the manga first, I didn't really think too much of it, but I guess when you're fans for as long as we are, you tend to pick up or read a lot into things over time. Or other people brush over it because no matter what mistakes Goku does, they always end up fixing themselves.

Although I'm not saying we should stop analyzing characters. I think it's nice to see how characters mature and turn as the series progresses.

[Savage68]

a one-dimensional typical superhero guy who flies around saving people from burning buildings.

This is nothing more than a myth.

[batistabus]

This needs to be immortalized somewhere. Every DB fan should read this.

I didn't know it was so ground-breaking. I thought it would be a pretty standard reading of the series. Then again, from the way people complain about Goku in the Buu arc and GT, maybe not.

Bonus tidbit:

I've always imagined the lines "From behind, from behind / The wind is blowing / Can I really ride it? / Someone and something / Is waiting for me," in "Orange Hero" to refer specifically to Goku's boredom as he's waiting for Uub, intentionally or not.

It's something that a lot of people don't take the time to realize, even if it is obvious.

[Makaioshin]

I somewhat agree with Cipher's post. It seems a bit much to say he became a worse person throughout the story, though.

[Piccolo Daimao]

a one-dimensional typical superhero guy who flies around saving people from burning buildings.

This is nothing more than a myth.

What? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying all superheroes are one-dimensional. Just that Goku is different than a typical superhero and doesn't go out of his way to prevent evil.

[Fox666]

I think things are being overanalyzed.

Vegeta, for example, something that he always does is underestimate his opponent evolution and let him get stronger. He did this against Freeza, Androids, Cell, Majin Boo... and he always got pwned after that. It's really embarasing how many times this happened.

Goku, on the other hand, if he changed it was in the Cell saga. Before it, Goku played the hole of the savior of the day. As he come to the rescue during the Saiyan saga, against the Ginyu force and Freeza.

After that, the usual hole of Goku changed. He let Gohan fight Cell, Trunks and Goten fight Majin Boo, and left to train Uub. Overall, Goku becomes a mentor, who gives room for the next generation.

I would try to understand this from an angle of Toriyama's clichés, rather than how Goku character evolved.

[Goku100xKamehameha]

I think things are being overanalyzed.

Vegeta, for example, something that he always does is underestimate his opponent evolution and let him get stronger. He did this against Freeza, Androids, Cell, Majin Boo... and he always got pwned after that. It's really embarasing how many times this happened.

When did this happened?

[Savage68]

What? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying all superheroes are one-dimensional. Just that Goku is different than a typical superhero and doesn't go out of his way to prevent evil.

That wouldn't make Goku any more or less one-dimensional than he already is.

"Different" isn't commensurate to "multi-faceted." One could easily argue that Goku's lack of self-propelled superheroism is a detriment to his personality, and not an accessory.

[VxG<3er]

[/quote]quote=Finally, he flies off to use some Indian Gohan clone village boy
[/quote]



Freakin' priceless turn of phrase there.

No way should Goku have been able to ride the Nimbus....

[Piccolo Daimao]

What? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying all superheroes are one-dimensional. Just that Goku is different than a typical superhero and doesn't go out of his way to prevent evil.

That wouldn't make Goku any more or less one-dimensional than he already is.

"Different" isn't commensurate to "multi-faceted." One could easily argue that Goku's lack of self-propelled superheroism is a detriment to his personality, and not an accessory.

I know, I'm just saying that I liked that he was different from a typical superhero.

And Goku certainly wasn't one-dimensional pre-Freeza arc.

[Michsi]

I think things are being overanalyzed.

Vegeta, for example, something that he always does is underestimate his opponent evolution and let him get stronger. He did this against Freeza, Androids, Cell, Majin Boo... and he always got pwned after that. It's really embarasing how many times this happened.

Goku, on the other hand, if he changed it was in the Cell saga. Before it, Goku played the hole of the savior of the day. As he come to the rescue during the Saiyan saga, against the Ginyu force and Freeza.

After that, the usual hole of Goku changed. He let Gohan fight Cell, Trunks and Goten fight Majin Boo, and left to train Uub. Overall, Goku becomes a mentor, who gives room for the next generation.

I would try to understand this from an angle of Toriyama's clichés, rather than how Goku character evolved.

You say we only see a strong change in the Cell saga but letting Vegeta go after defeating him was also one of those questionable decisions, one that HE HIMSELF questions and maybe regrets a little afterwards.

Personally I don't think it's being overnanlyzed. Even way back when I was way too young to care about analyzing ANYTHING, Goku's "I don't need any help and I wanna fight alone" when the world was in danger, raised a question marc. But maybe this just how I am.

But I'm also well aware that Toriyama's lack of planning might have something to do with it. For instance with the Androids. He might have thought up the idea of Trunks, the villans from the future but completely forgot about the Dragonballs. Something like "Wait a second, this situation I have presented can actually be solved pretty easily with the DBs. How do I keep them from being used? " and proceeds have Goku and co. put their pride above the safety of the earth.


And I keep going back to that moment were he deliberatly places his own son in the line of fire. Through Piccolo the reader is supposed to become acutely aware of Goku's mistake. The anime IMO mitigates this by having Goku give Piccolo a little " I told you so" after Gohan turns SSJ2. However, his decision is again put in question when we see that Gohan's personality do a drastic 180 because of the transformation and become a little pyschopath.
If you ask me it was very obvious where the author was going with this. so you can't really write it off as one of Toriyama's cliches.

Also, ever since I read that Gohan was meant to take Goku's place as the hero of the story , I wondered if Goku's little stunt wasn't meant to be a form of allienating him from the readers and have us believe that Gohan is a better choice for a main character.
Just a theory though.

No way should Goku have been able to ride the Nimbus....

Do we actually see him riding the Nimbus again, after the Saiyan Saga?

[dbgtFO]

No way should Goku have been able to ride the Nimbus....

Do we actually see him riding the Nimbus again, after the Saiyan Saga?

He has no need for it anymore, now that he has teleportation or the fact, that he can fly at extremely high speeds far surpassing Kintoun with no major ki consumption like back in the Saiyan Arc.

[Michsi]

No way should Goku have been able to ride the Nimbus....

Do we actually see him riding the Nimbus again, after the Saiyan Saga?

He has no need for it anymore, now that he has teleportation or the fact, that he can fly at extremely high speeds far surpassing Kintoun with no major ki consumption like back in the Saiyan Arc.

I know that. This is the logical explanation I wasn't seriously considering that he couldn't ride it anymore.

Although it does make you think......

[Piccolo Daimao]

If not before, Goku lost his purity ticket the moment he made a deal with the old Kaioshin to feel up Bulma. And we can't put that down to naivety, because he's already banged Chi-Chi at least twice, asked Kaioshin if he cared whether Bulma was middle-aged and said the reason he didn't offer up Chi-Chi was because she was flat-chested. He damn well knew why Roshi and Kaioshin liked girls by then.

[Makaioshin]

I highly doubt Goku was ever meant to have become impure.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I highly doubt Goku was ever meant to have become impure.

It's just a little fanon thing I have. Of course, Toriyama probably thinks Goku never became impure and he was pure in all his intentions. But I can't really see risking innocent people's lives in favour for your own selfish desire for a challenge and offering up your best friend's body for sexual violation as "pure".

[Makaioshin]

I highly doubt Goku was ever meant to have become impure.

It's just a little fanon thing I have. Of course, Toriyama probably thinks Goku never became impure and he was pure in all his intentions. But I can't really see risking innocent people's lives in favour for your own selfish desire for a challenge and offering up your best friend's body for sexual violation as "pure".

I suppose so but your own ethical system isn't what determines who is pure or not in the Dragon World. The Bulma thing was just a gag anyway, though that doesn't have to stop you thinking he is impure.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I highly doubt Goku was ever meant to have become impure.

It's just a little fanon thing I have. Of course, Toriyama probably thinks Goku never became impure and he was pure in all his intentions. But I can't really see risking innocent people's lives in favour for your own selfish desire for a challenge and offering up your best friend's body for sexual violation as "pure".

I suppose so but your own ethical system isn't what determines who is pure or not in the Dragon World. The Bulma thing was just a gag anyway, though that doesn't have to stop you thinking he is impure.

Yeah, I know, it's just my fanon. But we didn't see him ride the Kinto'un after the Freeza arc, so I'm free to base my own opinion on whether or not he was still pure.