Who came first?

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:30 pm

I was wondering which Goku/Vegeta fusion was first, Vegetto, or Movie 12's Gogeta.

Metrite · Post by **Metrite** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:48 pm

If you mean the first to appear in the seies, I'm not sure. It depends on when the manga chapter with Vegitto came out as well as movie 12(I think it was about the same time). Or do you mean as in which was "invented" first? If so I think it would technically be Gogeta because I remember in one of the Toriyama interviews(I think it was one of the daiz ones) he mentioned he came up with the idea of the potaras because the concpt of fusion was already being used in the movies.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 6:13 pm

I meant in the sense of which appeared first, Vegetto's first manga chapter or Movie 12.

Sun_Wukong · Post by **Sun_Wukong** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:19 pm

Movie 12 is full of continuuity errors. Goku and Vejiita were never in the afterlife at the same time. Well, they kinda were, but Goku was on Kaioshin's planet. Anyway, the manga came first.

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 · Post by **Super Saiyan Turlast x4** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:21 pm

That's really a tough question. I am really not sure which was released first, but you would think that Movie #12 was, because they made a lot of the movies before they finished all of the manga vol's. That's just my opinion, but VegettoEX would most likely have the most accurate answer.

Chuquita · Post by **Chuquita** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 9:53 pm

I: How about the conception of 'potara'?
TA: Well, that was just because fusion was being used up in the movies, and I was thinking, 'what should I do?' Since I had been drawing earrings, I wondered, 'can I use these somehow?'

- From a Toriyama interview in one of the Daizenshuus.

This leads me to believe Gogeta came first since he mentions fusions in the movies and Gotenks hadn't been in any prior to Movie 12.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 4:18 pm

Well...

The tankoubon that first features Vegetto was released in either June 1995 or August 1995... I don't know which chapter it is, but the end of vol. 41 is talking about Potara, but Vegetto isn't mentioned in a chapter title until #42 (see the "Manga Reference Guide"). I don't know when, specifically, the actual chapter appeared in Weekly Jump, but it's safe to assume it was at least earlier that year (the previous tankoubon came out in March).

Gogeta / Movie 12 appeared in March 1995.

Basically, it looks like the two were being developed around the same time. Being that movie 11 was released almost a full year earlier, they had a good amount of time to work on movie 12's storyline and characters, so it's possible Gogeta had been imagined earlier. Of course, we don't know how early Toriyama had actually determined he was going to go with Vegetto in his storyline.

So... I dunno...?

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:47 pm

VegettoEX wrote:Being that movie 11 was released almost a full year earlier, they had a good amount of time to work on movie 12's storyline and characters, so it's possible Gogeta had been imagined earlier. Of course, we don't know how early Toriyama had actually determined he was going to go with Vegetto in his storyline.

My guess would be last minute. Note that Toriyama couldn't come up with a power-up on his own, which is where fusion came in, so it doesn't surprise me that he simply modified fusion (Potara). Afterall, look at the final power-up of the series: SSJ3 can't cut it, so it turns out that Goku wasn't using SSJ3 at its max until against Chibi! Wheee!

'lo Legends · Post by **'lo Legends** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 3:38 pm

I think that Toriyama thought up fusion first, used it with Trunks/Goten, and then Toei saw this and thought "Wouldn't it be cool if Goku/Vegeta used the fusion dance?" and made movie 12. Afterwards, Toriyama was trying to think of a way to make Goku stronger and remembered that they were making Goku/Vegeta fuse in movie 12 but to make it interesting and different than the movie he used the potara earings instead of the fusion dance.

El_Diablo · Post by **El_Diablo** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 6:02 pm

Toriyama got the idea for fusion from his friend, I believe. But your point is correct.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 6:33 pm

It was his friend and fellow manga-ka, Masakazu Katsura, creator of "Video Girl Ai" and "I's", that first suggested it to him.

Zackarotto · Post by **Zackarotto** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:11 pm

Hey, you're forgetting Zetman, which is on another level of awesome. It's in my top 10-- Probably my 7th or 8th favorite manga, ever.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 9:42 pm

So I didn't bore everybody with listing ALL of his titles? Sue me.

Kanzenshuu

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