What did Piccolo mean?

[p123]

When Cell uses a Kamehameha against Piccolo, he laughs it off, and says that Cell is using the Kamehameha that Goku used against Vegeta I think...

Then Piccolo goes on to say, that Goku has vastly improved his blast...


Now, from what I think, I think it makes no sense for Piccolo to laugh off Cell's power x 2.22. That power would probably be way above Piccolo.

So, I'm thinking that amplified ki blasts are an addition judged by Piccolo's comment...


But that doesn't make too much sense on it's own. So instead, I think ki blasts are an addition, that have to be trained alongside one's power to increase it and keep it up to par. For instance, Goku's Kamehameha is always 2.22x his own power as long as it is a FP Kamehameha. But Goku trains it to be up to par...


So basically, it's an addition, that has a cap of being 2.22x the user. Which would make sense out of things a bit better I would think...

[Kaboom]

Now, from what I think, I think it makes no sense for Piccolo to laugh off Cell's power x 2.22.

There's your problem. Doesn't work like that.

[Michsi]

Okay, first I have to admit all these power level discussions (especially all those that contain NUMBERS and multipliers) confuse me greatly so I'm going to stick to the part I did understand

When Cell uses a Kamehameha against Piccolo, he laughs it off, and says that Cell is using the Kamehameha that Goku used against Vegeta I think...

If he's referring to the power that Goku had at the time he fought Vegeta on earth it would be only logical that he laughs it of. Piccolo was WAY beyond that level.

[p123]

There's your problem. Doesn't work like that.

Come on now moderator. You should know better than that. You have pretty much just said, No I don't agree, and just walked out... One would think a place like Daizex, and it's moderator, would answer with a thoughtful response, and not just act like I'm an idiot for suggesting something different than what you believe. I don't see the reason why you would waste everyones time with a post that has nothing behind it. I would think Daizex, which is suggested to be held to a higher standard, and it's moderator, who is supposed to behave better than the posters, would know better than that. If I wanted to get a response that pretty much says " Your an idiot because your logic does not match mine " , I would have went to GameFaqs for that. Cmon Kaboom, your better than that.. I posted a serious question, and I want a serious answer. Care to explain why it doesn't work like that?

[Kaboom]

Care to explain why it doesn't work like that?

Because nothing has ever said that it does. The Kamehameha has never been labeled or described as having any sort of set numerically-measurable multiplier or other boost, in the manga itself, in the guidebooks, or anywhere. You're running into a problem because you're trying to apply and hold to a "rule" that doesn't exist.

[dbgtFO]

I think the Kamehameha simply got more destructive as in not getting a bigger multiplier or anything of that sort, but rather being able to destroy things of equal power or slightly above, since Goku's KHH vs. Vegeta didn't destroy/kill him and merely pushed him away, but Goku's KHH against Cell was able to do more than just push the opponent away.

[p123]

I thought Piccolo specifically stated Goku's Kamehameha got stronger?

[dbgtFO]

Well he said this:
Chapter: 363 (DBZ 169), P9.1-3
Cell: “Son Goku…Piccolo…and Vegeta’s cells were collected during the fight when Vegeta and co. came to Earth…”
Piccolo: “…Goku, from back then huh?...So that’s why your Kamehameha just now wasn’t anything special…”

Chapter: 364 (DBZ 170), P4.2
Piccolo: “I won’t let you get away…A Kamehameha of the kind of level as before won’t do any good.”

[p123]

So....


Cell 500
Piccolo 550

How strong is Cell's Kamehameha? I would think it adds the same amount of power that Goku added to his own with his blast. That's the only way to make it laughable IMO...

[Kaboom]

With how utterly helpless Cell was in general against Piccolo, I think it'd be more like:

Piccolo - 500

• Minus Ki from his arm -485

Cell - 200

• Kamehameha - 250

Restating again that nowhere is the Kamehameha described to always have some sort of set boost. The last numerical reading of a Kamehameha being used was way back in the early days, where Earthlings were the underdogs and power levels fluctuated wildly. Later on, once we're dealing with Super Saiyans and it's almost entirely about about "raw power vs raw power," that's not necessarily the case anymore.

[Fox666]

Hmm, the gap beetween them is not huge like that.

Trunks: “I feel another stupendous ki…! There’s someone else!! Someone else I don’t know!!”

“One of those guys with mysterious, absurdly large battle powers has vanished…But the other one remains…”

So if you go by the logic that Cell is stronger than Vegeta, who can fight back no.18, he shouldn't be that far from Piccolo, who is equal to no.17

[Kaboom]

I... wasn't really trying to be that precise.

[p123]

We know Vegeta groups both Cell and Piccolo together as absurdly large kis. Then Vegeta goes on to say that the SSJ is getting surpassed left and right. Logically, Cell and Piccolo are both above Vegeta, and by a decent margin...

Next we have 16 state, that only one of the powers ( Piccolo ) rivals 17 and 18.


So in conclusion we can tell that...


17 >>= 18 >= Piccolo Weights > Cell > Vegeta


>>= ( Rivals, but on the bottom of rivals range )
>= ( Rivals )



Piccolo uses ki to regenerate his arm, and is totally confident in taking out Cell anyhow. Later Piccolo rages out that he missed his oppurtunity. So there should be at least some gap here... But it shouldn't be by huge measures...


I could see one explaining it by like how you guys like Goku 916 / Goku Kamehameha 924, but that line of thinking, is kind of contradicted by Raditz amazement in what Goku/Piccolo are doing, which is highly amplified ki attacks. I mean, what else would Raditz be amazed at really?


But any who, interesting stuff eh?

[Senzu_Bean]

Goku's Kamehameha back then was what? Maybe slightly over than 10,000. Of course Piccolo is going label it as anything special.

[beast mode]

All we know is that at this time: Cell < Piccolo.

so how about:

Cell 200
Cell (Kamehameha): 440
Piccolo 500

An even better way of thinking of it is that numbers and multipliers don't apply to the series post-Freeza and that Toriyama almost certainly forgot about how strong Goku's Kamehameha vs. Raditz was (we also see in Goku vs. Cell that the user can put varying amounts of their Ki into a Kamehameha.):

Cell < Cell (Kamehameha) < Piccolo

[Fox666]

I could see one explaining it by like how you guys like Goku 916 / Goku Kamehameha 924, but that line of thinking, is kind of contradicted by Raditz amazement in what Goku/Piccolo are doing, which is highly amplified ki attacks. I mean, what else would Raditz be amazed at really?

I suppose even if Goku didn't raise his power over 2x it, he still raised it...

[p123]

Kabooms POV is probably the most even keeled, but one would think this issue is vey important to whether AT views as the multiplier we all know, or perhaps something different... I think my theory attempts to best explain the scenario in universe, which is what this thread is listed under is it not?

So I think of it as an addition that must be trained alongside your power and has a max, a limit addition equal to a 2.22x boost..

[Senzu_Bean]

What?! There isn't any multiplier or addition or whatever you're pulling from your silly ass. Ki attacks are the users' ki. You can't somewhat calculate them just like you can't calculate how strong someone is.

[Senzu_Bean]

Lol...

You've evidence for that besides the stuff you pull from your ass and write here?

[beast mode]

Kabooms POV is probably the most even keeled, but one would think this issue is vey important to whether AT views as the multiplier we all know, or perhaps something different... I think my theory attempts to best explain the scenario in universe, which is what this thread is listed under is it not?

So I think of it as an addition that must be trained alongside your power and has a max, a limit addition equal to a 2.22x boost..

Goku or Gohan vs. Cell shows that a person can pump varying amounts of their Ki into a Kamehameha.