Was Gohan a SSJ2 Against Broly in Movie 10?

[p123]

I have seen undeniably proof that Gohan is a SSJ2.

Broly is stated to be just as bad of a monster as he was before... In Movie 8, RSSJ Broly is suggested to be a little stronger than SSJ Goku...


SSJ Broly <=> RSSJ Broly > Base Gohan ~ SSJ Goku Movie 8


Seeing as how Gohan transforms all the way into SSJ2, and still get's stomped by LSSJ Broly, it seems quite realistic that LSSJ Broly in Movie 10 is on a SSJ3 level of power. He may be a shade under SSJ3 Goku, or above him, but he certainly should be somewhere on par.


A SSJ and SSJ2 transformation is going to be around a SSJ3 transformation... Possibly Broly is much stronger than Goku in light of that...

[dbgtFO]

Yes to Gohan being SSJ 2 IMO, No to Broli being anywhere near SSJ 3 Goku based on movie 11's ending.

[Kaboom]

The visuals of his hair and face suggest it, but since Toei doesn't know their asses from their hands insofar as how to properly portray the differences between the first two Super Saiyan stages, then it's really not 100% set in stone. I mean, they practically traced his face in the exact same angles as his SSj2 stint against Kibito, but they don't get the hint to include the very prominent and obvious lightning? That's a little fishy to me.

Personally, I think my old power level list for the movies described the situation pretty well:

Son Gohan - 20,000,000

• Super Saiyan - 1,000,000,000
  Super Saiyan 2 (no lightning) - 1,000,000,001

And no freakin' way Broly is anywhere near any Super Saiyan 3, at all. All he did in movie 10 was beat up on Gohan, who even if he's using Super Saiyan 2, is the weakest SSj2 of the bunch but STILL actually put up a better fight than anyone in Movie 8. SSj2 Goku or Vegeta would rip Broly in half, and he'd be lucky if he could even match Super Perfect Cell.

EDIT: Forget that, he wasn't even strong enough to kill Videl!

[p123]

Nerfing yet another character Kaboom? You really have a bad habit of doing that..I hope your joking...


I don't know man. TOEI seems to be awfully consistent. Every SSJ2 user, has a paler face, squintier eyes, and meaner look to them, not to mention differing hairstyle... Also the sketches back it up, and it's just overwhelming evidence when you look at it all...


DBGTFO.. How can Broly not be on a SSJ level?

Goku from Movie 8 should be comparable to Cell Games Goku...


SSJ Goku 10
Base Gohan 10
SSJ2 Goku 20
SSJ Gohan 50
SSJ3 Goku 80
SSJ2 Gohan 100


And that's only using SSJ as a 5x boost. Forget about a 50x boost...

Base Gohan 10
SSJ Goku 10
SSJ2 Goku 20
SSJ3 Goku 80
SSJ Gohan 500
SSJ2 Gohan 1000


As you can see, using the 50x boost gets even crazier...




Goku taking out Broly at the end of Movie 11 doesn't mean much. Either Goku is TOEI HAXED as well , or a HAX SSJ2 Goku used SSJ3. M12 and M11 are not suggested to be a continuation of each other...

[Kaboom]

Nerfing yet another character Kaboom? You really have a bad habit of doing that..I hope you're joking...

What, with the "SSj2 = +1" thing? Of course I was. But I'm not trying to "nerf" Gohan in any way. I just hate Broly.

P.S. - Speaking of bad habits, please fix your constant misuse of "your" instead of "you're." A reminder as a mod.

And the heroes from Movie 8 are not necessarily on their Cell Games level yet, but that's another whole tired old topic altogether.

[dbgtFO]

DBGTFO.. How can Broly not be on a SSJ level?

I think he's SSJ 2 level

[Super Vegito]

Gohan was a SSJ2. Toei makes that clear the second time Gohan transforms for his Kamehameha. He's cleary a SSJ1 there, as noted by his hair strands. So I believe Toei had a clear distiction between the two. Not to mention when Gohan first transforms against Broly, he has that SSJ2 serious face. Gohan was also able to hurt Broly, and even out muscle him at times. Something no SSJ1 in movie 8, against a weaker Broly, was able to do.

I do not think Broly is SSJ3 tier. Full power SSJ2 more like it.

[hleV]

Toei

• based SSJ Gohan's appearance on SSJ Gohan during his training with Goten
• based SSJ2 Gohan's appearance on SSJ2 Gohan during his transformation in front of Kibito

While Toei isn't consistent about shit, they were obviously aware of the fact that they were taking an appearance of SSJ2 Gohan. I don't see why would they give it to a SSJ and not SSJ2 Gohan in Movie #10.

[p123]

I think he's SSJ 2 level

Doesn't Gohan suggests he himself is on a SSJ3 level? Since Base Gohan is already on a SSJ level, doesn't it make sense for Gohan's SSJ2, to be on a SSJ3 level, if his Base is already on a SSJ level?

By SSJ3 level, here is what I mean. For general, normal instances, what average MSSJ/SSJ2/SSJ3 powers are like. For normal people. For super powered up people, they can have their SSJ on a SSJ3 tier... Here's my breakdown...



MSSJ Level

SSJ Teen Gohan - Perfect Cell


SSJ2 Level


SSJ2 Teen Gohan - Good Buu


SSJ3 LEvel


Fat Buu - Base Gotenks Post





Here are my general ranges of power....


For example, SSJ Gotenks Pre Rosat, is on a SSJ3 Tier of power. Whether you have Goku superior to him or not, Gotenks belongs in a SSJ3 tier. See what I'm saying...


SSJ2 Post Zeta Gohan, would be another example of a transformation, not in the right tier... He is suggested to be somewhere around Fat Buu, who is SSJ3 Tier. See what I mean?



So just because you use a form, doesn't mean you are in that forms tier of normal ranges of power. That's what I meant before, hope that clears it up for you..

Gohan was a SSJ2

Can you explain why Gohan looks exactly like the SSJ2 in the sketches in the Daiz? How about the pale face? Squinty eyes? How come only SSJ2s have these attributes.

Gohan vs Broly does not look like Gohan vs Dabura. Gohan clearly is paler and squintier against Broly than he is against Dabura...

[Super Vegito]

I said he was a SSJ2...

[dbgtFO]

By SSJ3 level, here is what I mean.

You don't seem to understand,
I replied to this:

DBGTFO.. How can Broly not be on a SSJ level?

You asked me why Broly couldn't be SSJ level(I assume it's a mistake, since you are going for SSJ 3 Goku < Broli), when I said:

Yes to Gohan being SSJ 2 IMO, No to Broli being anywhere near SSJ 3 Goku based on movie 11's ending.

[Rostir]

The age old debate.

[p123]

Goku surely has improved a ton from Movie 10 to 11.

Why can't this be accurate?


SSJ3 Goku M11 > LSSJ Broly M10/11 > SSJ2 Gohan M10 > SSJ3 Goku ( Buu Saga ) ????

[Kaboom]

The movies stem off from the series on an individual, point-by-point basis.

Goku in Movie 1 is Raditz-arc Goku, because that's the era of the series which Movie 1 is based on.
Goku in Movie 5 is Namek/Trunks Goku, because that's the era of the series which Movie 5 is based on.
Gohan in Movie 9 is Cell Games Gohan because that's the era of the series which Movie 9 is based on.
Gohan in Movie 10 is Saiyaman/Tournament Gohan, because that's the era of the series which Movie 10 is based on.
And so on and so forth.

There is no indication that the movie versions of any given character would be immensely more powerful than their same self from the adjacent point in the series. No version of SSj2 Gohan is ever going to be more powerful than any version of SSj3 Goku, to say nothing of freakin' Broly being so.

Base Gohan having a quick scuffle with SSj Broly is nothing more than typical Toei-logic embellishment, and is every bit as meaningless as Videl or Kuririn likewise surviving against him. I don't see anyone claiming that THOSE two are as strong as Super Saiyans.

[p123]

Base Gohan goes to clearly state how strong Broly is, then fights him in base. Videl/Kids really had no other option. Base Gohan actually does pretty darn well.

Base Gohan at minimum has to be in SSJ Goku's range somewhere! It wouldn't make sense if he wasn't at least close... Even half geez... Somewhere in range, or Gohan would have turned SSJ immediately after sensing Broly..


Movie 8 people are definitely post Rosat SSJs. Vegeta/Trunks SSJ forms mimic Cell Games Vegeta/Trunks , and Gohan has freaking SSJ. Gohan isn't stronger than Goku, and that's the only difference.

But we see that a lot...

Movie6 seems to mimic Goku/Vegeta/19 scenario... In which we know Vegeta >= Goku..


Also, Movie 7 seems to mimic the Android fights, which we know Vegeta>= Goku...



So this is hardly the first time we see Goku superior to someone he's not supposed to be superior to...

[Kaboom]

Base Gohan actually does pretty darn well.

So does Videl. She actually dodged Broly's punch, survived his clothesline, and later landed a counter-attack of her own! Granted, that's not quite as good as Gohan, though. But I think we can at least confirm for sure that Movie 10 Videl is as strong as 100% Freeza, agreed? [/blatant sarcasm]

Gohan isn't stronger than Goku, and that's the only difference.

Guess what? That's not necessarily just Toei's Goku-love, because there is a point in the series at which that was the case.

Movie6 seems to mimic Goku/Vegeta/19 scenario... In which we know Vegeta >= Goku...

Vegeta is potentially a little stronger than Goku in Movie 6, as well.

Also, Movie 7 seems to mimic the Android fights, which we know Vegeta>= Goku...

Same deal, because nobody stood a chance against Super 13 in the first place, so it's moot whether Goku or Vegeta is stronger. Piccolo could even be his merged-with-Kami self, and it wouldn't make a difference.

[Fox666]

So does Videl. She actually dodged Broly's punch, survived his clothesline, and later landed a counter-attack of her own! Granted, that's not quite as good as Gohan, though. But I think we can at least confirm for sure that Movie 10 Videl is as strong as 100% Freeza, agreed? [/blatant sarcasm]

For these reasons I don't care about filler characters power.

[Senzu_Bean]

Yep, everything points to Gohan being a Super Saiyan 2 in that particular sequence against Broly - facial expressions, hair, aura (even without the lighting), etc. And I can't stop thinking for myself how ridiculous it is reading that Broly is comparable to Buu or Super Saiyan 3.

When I thought Dragonball fans couldn't get anymore ridiculous now and then someone surprises me.

[p123]

TOEI is actually very consistent with their artwork. They have every SSJ2 drawn with SSJ2 features and traits, every .... single.... one...

Gohan was a SSJ2 against Broly, and was intended to be.

[Kingdom Heartless]

Vegeta is potentially a little stronger than Goku in Movie 6, as well.

I don't really see much to back that up...

I mean, he seemed a little more outmatched than Goku, although that is partly because Goku and Cooler were both using Instant Transmission.