Was Gohan a SSJ2 Against Broly in Movie 10?

[DragonBoxZTheMovies]

What ever happened to that scan that showed there was an intentional difference between Gohan before fighting LSSJ Broly and when he was charging the Kamehameha?
EDIT: Not the best quality, but here we go:


From Dragon Ball Wiki.

[Fox666]

Funny to think that the hair on these images are just traced over the hair of Gohan when he transforms in front of Kibito

[Nazi Cola]

Here's a much better quality version of the image above.

[hleV]

Toei

• based SSJ Gohan's appearance on SSJ Gohan during his training with Goten
• based SSJ2 Gohan's appearance on SSJ2 Gohan during his transformation in front of Kibito

While Toei isn't consistent about shit, they were obviously aware of the fact that they were taking an appearance of SSJ2 Gohan. I don't see why would they give it to a SSJ and not SSJ2 Gohan in Movie #10.

Why continue discussing?

[Hellspawn28]

Gohan as a adult never went SSj2 until he meet Kibito and Movie 10 was released before that epsiode from what I can remember. Movie 10 Broly is around at least SSj2 level, Super Perfect Cell should still beat Movie 10 Broly with some minor effort.

Cobalt Agent on Moviecodec did some Broly debunking (Along with the whole SSj2 Gohan thing in Movie 10) and it's worth reading.

http://lounge.moviecodec.com/vs-forum/b ... es-100857/

[Son_Gohan]

Gohan as a adult never went SSj2 until he meet Kibito and Movie 10 was released before that epsiode from what I can remember.

When Movie 10 was released the manga had already reached Buu's hatching; Gohan's transformation at the tournament had long past.

Cobalt Agent on Moviecodec did some Broly debunking (Along with the whole SSj2 Gohan thing in Movie 10) and it's worth reading.

I don't think so.

The guy is skewing what he claims to be "facts" with his own opinion, and inaccurately at that.

[p123]

I don't see how SPC can scratch LSSJ Broly M10 with a Kamehameha. SSJ2 Gohan is just uberly haxed in M10. I mean Gohan in Base is fighting SSJ Broly and not doing that bad. Gohan is at least on par with MSSJ Goku at this point, so obviously his SSJ2 is going to be out of control.


IMO, M10 Gohan = Post Zeta Sword Gohan = A Gohan who trained over the 7 years. I just can't see how SPC is anywhere near this guy...

[Dabooyaka]

Base Gohan did nothing that impressed me against Broly. We have seen saiyans in Toei-Verse doing impossible things all the time. To have Gohan that strong is baseless.

[Kaboom]

Not to mention that even Videl was able to manage some pretty impressive feats against Broly, dodging and actually surviving his blows. I don't see anyone claiming that she is stronger than a Super Saiyan because of that.

[p123]

It's quite possible. Who knows really? But from what I can see, Videl cannot opt for a stronger transformation, she is forced to fight as is, and Broly could be toying with everyone as he is known to do.

Broly is just methodically destroying his prey, and who's to really say Videl is so weak really? It's just a movie, and we know TOEI likes to employ a ton of nerf/hax type of stuff, and they have to make it interesting. One shotting everyone for no reason doesn't make too much sense when your trying to draw it out for an hour or so...


Broly could just be heavily toying with both the kids and Videl, and hell he is shown to be toying around with Base Gohan as well...Once Gohan realizes that Broly is toying, Gohan busts out SSJ2 in a second, which makes SSJ Broly crap himself...

So it could all still make sense...


You don't think Gohan M 10 = Trained Gohan = Post Zeta Sword = Bringing out all of Gohan's current potential is a plausible POV?

[Kaboom]

Broly could just be heavily toying with both the kids and Videl, and hell he is shown to be toying around with Base Gohan as well...Once Gohan realizes that Broly is toying, Gohan busts out SSJ2 in a second, which makes SSJ Broly crap himself...

So it could all still make sense...

Finally, a scenario for this film which does.

You don't think Gohan M 10 = Trained Gohan = Post Zeta Sword = Bringing out all of Gohan's current potential is a plausible POV?

No, in fact I find it quite silly. For a few reasons.

- How the hell is merely swinging around a heavy sword supposed to make Gohan over fifty times stronger in less than a day? There's a point where "plot-based power boosts" goes too far and just becomes "bullcrap."

• The sword was not stated or suggested to have any magical power-boosting properties. In fact, Kaioshin and Kibito expected it to, imagining something amazing like Gohan becoming super-unstoppable just by wielding it, but were surprised when it didn't. Any power gain Gohan made in the end was attributed to, "well, that sword was pretty heavy! I got a good workout!"
  
  Furthermore, the worth of those gains was attributed to Gohan being able to instantly multiply them into something much bigger via Super Saiyan (2). But then even Goku realized it wasn't going to be enough to matter.
  
  And those base form gains were not necessarily very large to begin with. Gohan only ever needed Super Saiyan to first pull the sword out of the rock. After that, he was perfectly able to hold it in base. By the time he finished "training" with it, he could simply wield it in base much easier. Big whoop.
  (Personally, I think the Z-sword training could at most just got him him back to roughly the overall power he held at the Cell Games. Which is already a big stretch.)
  
  If Viz's translation is trustworthy for this scene, then Gohan even says, "I guess [the Zeta Sword]'s just overrated." I'd say that sums it up pretty well.

- Movie 10 Gohan gives no actual indication of being any stronger than himself during the Saiyaman/Training period before the tournament, which is the period of the story which the movie lines up with. Even you've just now admitted that his stint in his base form against Broly isn't proof of anything.

- Building upon that, at the point when Movie 10 was written and created, I'm pretty sure that Gohan's Z-sword training hadn't even happened yet in the manga. How can one so easily make a connection between two things when one of them didn't even exist yet?

- Bringing out "Gohan's potential" at this point was only accomplished by the old Kaioshin. I'm not sure what you meant by tossing in that term, but one way or another it's certainly more than a mere day or so of weight-training could accomplish.


All in all, it shows a bad habit of reading too much into every little thing that happens and ending up with needlessly outlandish results. But the worst part is, it tries to make Broly look good.

[p123]

Yes you guys do have a point about Base Gohan. I rather like it as well. It's just hard the TOEI stuff they are just so godamn sheesh...

The best thing the other side has is Gohan is in a gi. Which means he trained. Lol. Well the fight too. But anyhow...I will try to debunk it later, but I think that it's pretty damn good, I don't mind Broly being SPC level, and prefer it actually...


We must discuss Post Zeta Sword Gohan. I think a big factor in it, is you viewing SSJ as a 50x boost. I only view it as a 5x boost. So a lot of things that I feel about Base Saiyans, are just going to be impossible for you. So without the stigma, let's try to discuss..


Gohan does handle the sword better in base than previously shown.
The way Goku's comment is worded, it sounds quite possible for SSJ2 Gohan to be ~ Fat Buu, but he's not stronger of course, but this also could factor in with Gotenks > Fat Buu, and Gotenks ready for battle you know? Timing is everything. If Gohan was there last hope, it could have gone different...


So it's more about SSJ2 Gohan ~ Fat Buu, then Base > SSJ. You know what I mean? So if you use a 50x boost, Base still won't be anywhere near SSJ, but I do feel that FP Gohan, should be somewhere around Fat Buu... Goku only questions if Gohan > Fat Buu, and he's not sure. It's not like he said, eh Gohan has no chance...


Are there any more similar ideas about Base vs a power much higher than them...

Not including surprise stuff, we have Base Gohan vs Dabura, a filler work, but we are dealing with filler here... That's really all I can think of , ah yes, the Fat Janemba thing.. Anymore off the top of your head?

[Dabooyaka]

Yes, Vegeta vs Kid Boo. The first time, when Goku's Super Saiyan 3 wore off.
Goku's head-but sendind boo over a mile away, while in base form.

[Hellspawn28]

When Movie 10 was released the manga had already reached Buu's hatching; Gohan's transformation at the tournament had long past.

But the movies are usally tie ins for the DBZ anime and never go by the manga.

[hleV]

When Movie 10 was released the manga had already reached Buu's hatching; Gohan's transformation at the tournament had long past.

But the movies are usally tie ins for the DBZ anime and never go by the manga.

They based Gohan's design off of how he very well looked in manga, although anime probably have done the same.

[dbgtFO]

When Movie 10 was released the manga had already reached Buu's hatching; Gohan's transformation at the tournament had long past.

But the movies are usally tie ins for the DBZ anime and never go by the manga.

They based Gohan's design off of how he very well looked in manga, although anime probably have done the same.

Adding that the movie was released only 10 days after the episode, where Teen Gohan transformed into a SSJ 2 at the tournament, which doesn't give them much time to go back and change his character design in the movie, since we know, that they made the above designs for him, where there's clearly a difference between the hair.

They had to be basing it off the manga and that Cobalt guy doesn't know jack about that specific part of the Broly topic.

[Nazi Cola]

Adding that the movie was released only 10 days after the episode, where Teen Gohan transformed into a SSJ 2 at the tournament, which doesn't give them much time to go back and change his character design in the movie, since we know, that they made the above designs for him, where there's clearly a difference between the hair.

They had to be basing it off the manga and that Cobalt guy doesn't know jack about that specific part of the Broly topic.

He doesn't seem to know jack about the concept of perception and communication barriers. He'd be banned quickly if he came here I think... Then again, I could be talking out of my ass.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Vegeta is potentially a little stronger than Goku in Movie 6, as well.

I don't really see much to back that up...

I mean, he seemed a little more outmatched than Goku, although that is partly because Goku and Cooler were both using Instant Transmission.

Well, Movie #6 appears to mirror the Androids arc, what with Vegeta being a Super Saiyan and Gohan's hairstyle. And in the Androids arc, Piccolo said that Vegeta may be stronger than Goku. Although I agree with you that, in this universe, I think Goku's stronger than Vegeta because, to me, he performs better against Coola than Vegeta and he's always the hero who gets the finishing blow. The same reason I think SSj3 Goku's stronger than Ultimate Gohan in Movie #13.

[Piccolo Daimao]

The manga is the only source with visual internal consistency, and there's a LOT of it. So much so, that I'm thinking of compiling a thread just to outline all the differences and serve as a guide. With pictures and guidebook sources and everything.

For some reason, I don't think that's a good idea. It could be argued the "Full-Power Super Saiyan aura" is just part of Toriyama's artistic style evolving. Vegeta has the same spiked aura as a Super Saiyan when he powers up for his Big Bang Attack and he explodes in rage after being beaten by #18. As do the Super Saiyan Grades, Future Gohan when he transforms, Piccolo when he powers up against #17 and when he powers up for the Gekiretsu Kodan and first-form Cell (see his aura when he fights Trunks in the future).

I actually made a thread about it here.