Goku's true boost in strength when becoming Super Saiyan?

[p123]

Sensu you can agree though that TOEI filler, and Buu Saga could indeed imply a smaller boost though right? You might not agree, but you do agree there are implications at least right?

[Senzu_Bean]

Sensu you can agree though that TOEI filler, and Buu Saga could indeed imply a smaller boost though right? You might not agree, but you do agree there are implications at least right?

No. And I don't take in consideration filler.

[p123]

I'm not saying you do. But you agree that TOEI does imply smaller boosts though right? Pikkon taking off his weights being a 50x boost is quite absurd don't you think? Also, doesn't Kaio only say that Goku increases several folds ( Funi Dub ) probably wrong, just wondering though.

I think GT, implies a smaller boost as well, with Goku going SSJ against General Rilldo...

And the Buu Saga, does have it's implications, there are counters to them, just like everything else, but they are there..

[Senzu_Bean]

Again, I don't take in consideration fillers or GT. And I don't see implications on the Buu arc for smaller boosts.

[p123]

Killi System, Weights only improving by 5x, Vegeta thinking he can win the tournament in Base while 18 is sitting right there. Dabura's Base Saiyans > Kibito/Piccolo/Kuririn statement. Sure he can't sense ki, but it just adds to the pile..

Base Gotenks suggested strength...

[Senzu_Bean]

Nothing of what you listed above imply what you are saying they imply.

[dbgtFO]

Killi System, Weights only improving by 5x, Vegeta thinking he can win the tournament in Base while 18 is sitting right there. Dabura's Base Saiyans > Kibito/Piccolo/Kuririn statement. Sure he can't sense ki, but it just adds to the pile..

Base Gotenks suggested strength...

Well you've heard all the counters, so for now, I'm just going to say I agree with Base Gotenks' suggested strength...
EDIT: And what SB just said.

[p123]

That's your opinion. One could plausibly believe they imply exactly the opposite of what you do. You have to really start explaining the story away why Vegeta thinks he can win in base, yet 18 is sitting right next to him...

[lash]

Perhaps he didn't know she was entering.

[p123]

That's kind of weak don't you think? She's on the plane with him, heading to the tournament. I mean it's possible. But it's weak you know? What about Base Gohan even suggesting it? Gohan invited Piccolo. Wouldn't he be setting Vegeta up for disaster by asking Vegeta that? I mean we all know if Piccolo > Base Vegeta, Vegeta is transforming on that ass, but why would Gohan even suggest it in the first place with the knowledge of Piccolo entering?

As we can see Gohan does not want to turn SSJ against Kibito. He is stalling for a good minute, and then needs to be egged on by Piccolo.

Obviously the kids base power is not this high, so they would be removed from the list, but I still haven't found a good solid reason to remove Goku/Vegeta/Gohan base from that list...

Gohan/Goku's Base could possibly be superior to Piccolo at the Cell Games, they just didn't know it yet, they hadn't been in base for over a year, so they have no idea how strong their base is ...

[Senzu_Bean]

If wasn't for Piccolo giving the nod Gohan would fight and probably lose against Kibito without going Super Saiyan.

[p123]

Why would Gohan lose? Do you think Kibito is a lot faster than Gohan? Because he certainly isn't stronger...

[Senzu_Bean]

It is stated that Kibito can give Gohan a difficult fight as long as he isn't a Super Saiyan.

[p123]

In the Daiz, yes. Not in the manga.. All Gohan says in the manga is that he looks like a tough opponent from what I can recall..

[Senzu_Bean]

In the Daiz, yes. Not in the manga.. All Gohan says in the manga is that he looks like a tough opponent from what I can recall..

And? It is an official statement and it is never contradicted.

[hleV]

Vegeta was arrogant bastard once again. Once he would have found himself unable to beat the opponent, ofc he would go SSJ.

[p123]

I think the Z Sword exchange does contradict that though...

But why did Gohan mention in the first place if Vegeta had to transform against Piccolo? If we know how Vegeta is, why wouldn't Gohan? Not to mention Base Vegeta > 18 seems to be true with 18 sitting right there. I can understand maybe not Piccolo, but 18 is right freaking there, on her way to enter in the tournament..

[Senzu_Bean]

Again, Gohan wouldn't change into Super Saiyan if Piccolo didn't nod to him and he probably would lose the match. The same would happen against #18 or Piccolo since Gohan was the one to suggest the rule in the first place.

[p123]

Who's to say that Base Gohan couldn't stomp Piccolo and 18 at the same time? Base Gohan was def considering turning SSJ based on Kibito's looking like a strong opponent. If Kibito's strength were not an issue, and Gohan would fight a superior opponent to not give away his SSJ, this statement is utterly pointless.

Why couldn't Base Gohan be stronger than Piccolo here? I didn't see any implications of Base strength at all post MSSJ training, who knows how strong Base could be...

[Senzu_Bean]

Why couldn't Base Gohan be stronger than Piccolo here? I didn't see any implications of Base strength at all post MSSJ training, who knows how strong Base could be...

The implications of their training should be more than enough.