Goku's true boost in strength when becoming Super Saiyan?

[p123]

Yes, we have no idea how strong a Base MSSJ is. Nothing is implied about their strength in the Cell Games. This would be the first implication of the strength of a Base Saiyan who is MSSJ.

Base Vegeta has no problem announcing he will win in Base with 18 right there. Base Gohan has no problem suggesting they all fight in Base while knowing he invited Piccolo.

Gohan surely would like to win the tournament if he could. He didn't train for nothing, his mother who has raised him by herself basically wants him to bring home the dough.

There are no implications of how strong Base strength is previously, this would be our 2nd implication about Base Saiyan strength in the Buu Saga.

Why would AT only make Kaio increase Goku's weights by 5? Why not 50? Just to let us all know what is going on with the SSJ boost. He intentionally sabotaged everything we know about SSJ for what? Kicks?

[Senzu_Bean]

Yes, we have no idea how strong a Base MSSJ is.

Yes, we have.

Why would AT only make Kaio increase Goku's weights by 5?

Because battle power doesn't mean anything with how much you can weight, run, swim, etc.

[p123]

Yes, we have.

What based on Goku's weight training? I mean in comparison to other characters. We have no clue..

Because battle power doesn't mean anything with how much you can weight, run, swim, etc.

Yes, we have no idea how strong a Base MSSJ is.

Yes, we have.

Why would AT only make Kaio increase Goku's weights by 5?

Because battle power doesn't mean anything with how much you can weight, run, swim, etc.

So how come when they take off their weights, their battle power increases?

[Senzu_Bean]

What based on Goku's weight training? I mean in comparison to other characters. We have no clue..

Their training was to surpass Super Saiyan and you can't do that by training your regular battle power, as implied in the story.

So how come when they take off their weights, their battle power increases?

Their battle power increases but didn't increase in relation with the weights. Goku doesn't become 100 times stronger because he removes 100 kg. Or maybe he does and become 100x time stronger doesn't mean you have your battle power multiplied by 100.

[p123]

Their training was to surpass Super Saiyan and you can't do that by training your regular battle power, as implied in the story.

What are Base and SSJ too different people. If you trained SSJ, why wouldn't Base increase as well. It's still the same body. Why can't increases correlate for all forms. If one increases base, then doesn't he still logically get a 50x boost for SSJ. Which would improve his SSJ overall right? Where is this logic that you can use the same body, to train different forms? We don't know the effects MSSJ has on Base at all, we don't know if Base improved at all, or improved tons. Hell, if one can train Base and still keep SSJ 50x, then one should be able to train SSJ, and keep Base 50x... Who made rules up on this, we don't know until the story tells us what happened...

Their battle power increases but didn't increase in relation with the weights. Goku doesn't become 100 times stronger because he removes 100 kg. Or maybe he does and become 100x time stronger doesn't mean you have your battle power multiplied by 100.

If someone if using their maximum Base effort to lift 2 tons, and then use their maximum effort of SSJ and lift 10 tons, I mean how is that so unusual?

So AT totally was trying to just use some complicated methology and the weights scenario has nothing to do with strength? Even though we get a ton of Base Saiyan implications, and not to mention, Base Saiyan airtime? All for Base Saiyans who are weaker than fodder Freeza? Why? Why all the attention on the Base Saiyans if they are so weak?

[Senzu_Bean]

FPSSJ isn't a 50x multiplier of regular power. That is the whole point of their training. Go beyond Super Saiyan and build power above that.

[p123]

Who ever said that? How could you know how strong FPSSJ is? How do you know it could get stronger or weaker? Your logic maybe, but there's nothing in the story that suggests that Base couldn't maintain it's 50x range, or that the multiplier could have gotten smaller.

[Senzu_Bean]

It is more the fact nothing implies such thing but fan-made ideas. Adding to all that the fact the guides say SSJG and FPSSJ aren't multipliers is pretty obvious those are just build power beyond Super Saiyan.

How could you know how strong FPSSJ is?

And you can't, just like you can't know how strong Goku's normal strength is.

[Kaboom]

Full-Power Super Saiyan grants the same power as regular Super Saiyan because it is regular Super Saiyan. It is merely controlled to the point where the form comes naturally and can be used in battle to its fullest without stress. That is it. That is all the form is described as in either the story or the guidebooks.

All the extra sources such as the Daizenshuu, the SEG, and even the GT Perfect Files for crying out loud, and even the (somewhat-hesitant) admission of Toriyama... all say Super Saiyan is a 50x multiplier. Even when the SEG decided to give us "strength" boosts for SSj2 and SSj3, they made no mention of "Full-Power" Super Saiyan, much less anything about it granting any different amount of power than normal. If SSj2 and SSj3 were worth mentioning, don't you think FPSSj would be even more so if it were actually different? Apparently not.

"Full-Power" Super Saiyan is mentioned once in Daizenshuu 2, under Goku's "Growing Up" guide. It says it "draws the power of the Super Saiyan," not anything above or beyond it (which is what Grades 2 and 3 are consistently labeled as), "to its limits." Hell, right along side it, it even says, "Goku decided that an unreasonable power-up was a disadvantage." How the high and heated hell does ANY of this suggest that it grants more power? Or less, for that matter?

Furthermore, right in the same section for Gohan, it doesn't even distinguish the difference between SSj and FPSSj. We know for a fact that Gohan did the same thing as Goku, and the guide even mentions how "he trained by trying to live with Super Saiyan as his normal state." Yet Gohan's is just listed as "Super Saiyan." How much more clear does it have to be laid out that there is no difference between the two forms beyond the level of control? How much do you possibly have to overthink things and ignore other things to justify your own warped opinion?

Think whatever you want about the base Saiyans in the Boo arc or whatever, I'm tired of hearing about that. But the 50x boost is inarguable. This apparently doesn't get through to some people, and as a result the entire thread has been practically nothing but the same pointless, back-and-forth, unproductive bickering about whether or not red is red or if it's actually blue. The whole thing is inane and stupid, so I'm ending it.