Toei Officially Acknowledges Yamamoto's Kai Rip-Offs

[Brad Redfield]

Damn, take the franchise seriously, eliminate or manipulate all elements that might make it's not taken seriously (= anything outdated)

My own opinion is: to me, the show has to forget what it was back then and be reborn to fit nowadays standards if we want it to live on, both in the world and in our hearts.

Enjoy.

[MetalMadness]

Tanooki said something about Dragon Ball Z Kai Part 5 being pushed back a little, I guess we gotta wait for its release to see if it has something to do with this news.

Unless someone from Funimaton tells us.

What?? Really? Is there some kind of source or confirmation that it's been delayed?

[PuppetDoctor]

Tanooki said something about Dragon Ball Z Kai Part 5 being pushed back a little, I guess we gotta wait for its release to see if it has something to do with this news.

Unless someone from Funimaton tells us.

What?? Really? Is there some kind of source or confirmation that it's been delayed?

Confirmation here:

http://www.rightstuf.com/rssite/main/ne ... To=Archive

[MetalMadness]

Tanooki said something about Dragon Ball Z Kai Part 5 being pushed back a little, I guess we gotta wait for its release to see if it has something to do with this news.

Unless someone from Funimaton tells us.

What?? Really? Is there some kind of source or confirmation that it's been delayed?

Confirmation here:

http://www.rightstuf.com/rssite/main/ne ... To=Archive

Damn, well it is just a month delay but still... I was looking forward to it in May. I guess this means we won't be getting Yamamato's music in an English release of Kai, well unless you count the broadcast version. But maybe I'm jumping the gun a bit here.

So most likely it looks like the future releases of Kai will have Kikuchi's music, I don't think it's just a coincidence they decide to delay it when Yamamato has been fired. Or might the delay have to do with the current state of Japan?

[ohaimynameiserik]

Or might the delay have to do with the current state of Japan?

That could be it. Are the episodes in Japan being delayed indefinitely or do we know if they'll be back next week?

[Perfect]

I've been trying to purchase part 4 for quite some time now. It isn't available at any stores in my area. :\

[Vernichter]

I don't think part 4 is out just yet.

Either way, since they're changing the music, I don't really have any incentive to get more. The whole reason I was collecting Kai was to compliment the D-Boxes with a different take on the show, and the music was half that reason.

[Perfect]

I don't think part 4 is out just yet.

Every place has said March 8th.

[SonGokuGT]

Part 4 is out. I got it at Fry's on the 8th. Fry's doesn't break street days because I once tried to buy an Initial D box set and they wouldn't sell it to me due to it not being out yet even though it was out on the shelf.

[Cold Skin]

Damn, take the franchise seriously, eliminate or manipulate all elements that might make it's not taken seriously (= anything outdated)

My own opinion is: to me, the show has to forget what it was back then and be reborn to fit nowadays standards if we want it to live on, both in the world and in our hearts.

Enjoy.

Ha ha, nicely thought!
However, this film:
1) was basically loved by no one, neither critics nor fans, so you can't say it meets the standards of what is considered nowadays great quality. The objective is to get more impressive and more worthy of the author's great fiction, not more unfaithful and ridiculous. How is this movie "taken seriously" by the industry, fans of the genre and fans of the show?
2) in the end, is it Dragon Ball, really? I'm talking about refreshing the technical side, not changing the characters, story, events, fictional universe, qualities of the original manga, etc... This is no remake, it's an unrelated story loosely using a few of the franchise's elements for commercial convenience...

But I understand that some people feel like the original Dragon Ball Z is perfect in terms of music and/or visual stuff. But as far as I'm concerned, quality improves in the industry, and so do my expectations. Nostalgia is nice, and most fans (of any work, not just Dragon Ball) seem driven by it, but there's always room for improvement, and everything should always be improved, especially if it has become legendary, and I think Dragon Ball has that status. They should rethink the whole adaptation of the manga to make it better, and it doesn't go with taking back music from good old times. No remake does that, it just counters the whole point of "being new". Kai was half new at least, but now it will only be 15% new (minor visual improvement, minor dub changes, filler cut, and that's it, not much of a change...). If only this infrigement problem had taken place just a few weeks later, when the series was done... But whatever, now the new interest is: what will they do next to revive the franchise, since this remastering led to nothing big?

[johnboy1]

in the end, is it Dragon Ball, really?

Is Highlander II not really a Highlander movie? Don't be silly. When you have a successful brand name like Dragon Ball, you should expect to get different interpretations of the source material every once in a while. Evolutions isn't good by any stretch of the imagination, but it is Dragon Ball. Just not how we're used to it.

[Adamant]

But as far as I'm concerned, quality improves in the industry, and so do my expectations. Nostalgia is nice, and most fans (of any work, not just Dragon Ball) seem driven by it, but there's always room for improvement, and everything should always be improved, especially if it has become legendary, and I think Dragon Ball has that status.

But... is replacing an old soundtrack simply because it's "old" and thus "outdated" improving a work? Would Citizen Kane be improved if the original soundtrack got replaced with something more modern? Would you advocate the next release of that movie be rescored in such a way, since "expectations have risen since the original release"?

[johnboy1]

But... is replacing an old soundtrack simply because it's "old" and thus "outdated" improving a work? Would Citizen Kane be improved if the original soundtrack got replaced with something more modern? Would you advocate the next release of that movie be rescored in such a way, since "expectations have risen since the original release"?

For what it's worth, I enjoy it when people make changes to movies, as long as the original is readily available. One of the most interesting things I've ever seen was a "Dark Side of the Rainbow" showing of the Wizard of Oz. Is it "improving" the movie? Eh, maybe, maybe not. But it's interesting either way.

[TheMajinRedComet]

Is it wrong to like both scores??? They both have merits, Couldn't we argue directorial intent here... Kai music was made for Kai, Z music was made for Z. The Z music is great, but who knows how well it will be implanted.

[Cold Skin]

But... is replacing an old soundtrack simply because it's "old" and thus "outdated" improving a work? Would Citizen Kane be improved if the original soundtrack got replaced with something more modern? Would you advocate the next release of that movie be rescored in such a way, since "expectations have risen since the original release"?

I don't know about the soundtrack of this classic movie, but I guess that much like movies in general, the soundtrack is already fully orchestral. A movie soundtrack can hardly become outdated to the point of being replaced, it usually just needs to be remastered in stereo or dolby surround (and all of its variations), but the original sound doesn't need to be replaced.

However, adaptations of manga, TV series (even the most famous international ones), and video games often tend to grow very old with time, because they have synths as their main asset (orchestra being to expensive, you can see in interviews that even the most successful international broadcasts are often allowed one or two real instruments per track to "break the coldness" of synths, but that's it). That's why they need full replacement, synths were just not good enough until at least the 2000s, and now that we're used to orchestra-like sounds from everything except cartoons for very young children, it clashes when you hear that kind of sound in a modern show (which usually never happens, but will happen with Dragon Ball Kai now).

Kikuchi's score could have been replaced with just his own compositions made with nowadays synths, which sound like an orchestra (Yamamoto's score is also primarly made with synths, with occasionnal real instruments thrown in, much like everything that is not a movie today, but the technology has evolved so much that sometimes, you can actually confuse the track for a movie track for a while!).

I have no problem with Kikuchi's score except that its oldness gives it a lack of dynamism. Take the scene when C-13 throws his first S-Bomb against Goku. The music is fast-paced, it could be a great track, but it sounds flat, the sound is old, the dynamic just don't strike, your heart doesn't accelerate its beating and your head doesn't start to follow the rhythm, you don't get up from your chair, and it's a shame cause it's really well thought, it has this potential, but it lacks modern days dynamics in the sounds, that's all. But it seems to be enough for most fans, and even better than Yamamoto's score, so I'll consider this turn of events bad news for me, but potentially great news for the series final episodes in a more general point of view. It just too bad that Kai, instead of having its own identity till the end, will be "contaminated" by ghosts of the past for the ending, but maybe it's sort of poetical too in a certain way, like an ultimate hommage to its former incarnation.

[Puto]

Umm, what? Kikuchi's score IS orchestrated, it's not done with synths at all...

[Metalwario64]

Umm, what? Kikuchi's score IS orchestrated, it's not done with synths at all...

Yeah, he keeps stating it's synthesized, like when he previously stated that it's "SNES music trying to sound orchestral". I'm beginning to wonder if he's confusing Kikuchi's score with Faulconer's at this point. Either that, or he's probably only heard the insert songs or the openings and endings.

In fact, the only tracks with synthesizers I can think of are the insert songs, next episode previews and the openings/endings, which were not done by Kikuchi.

[Cold Skin]

Oh, my mistake then. It's great that Kikuchi's score was recorded with a huge, symphonic orchestra absolutely out of reach for worldwide TV series, I'm glad he was given a high movie budget for his music. When Yamamoto had the right to record 2 orchestral tracks in all the history of Dragon Ball, both included on the Super Butoden 2 soundtrack... How come these 2 orchestral soundtracks sound like actual orchestra when none of Kikuchi do? Oh, I know: maybe they were never orchestral to begin with...

Seriously, listen to the orchestral tracks from Dragon Ball (only 2), Resident Evil and Final Fantasy, and then get back to Kikuchi's: they all sound alike, like any orchestra used in a movies, and Kikuchi's sound is completely different, simple, textureless, like anything which is not an orchestra. It's not a bad thing, but the synths have to be more recent nowadays.

I may be wrong about the fact that Kikuchi didn't use an orchestra and made all of his sound in studio, but then I'm gonna need a proof to be convinced.

[Metalwario64]

Kikuchi's sound is completely different

Of course it is. Dragon Ball's score was made to sound like old school Kung-fu films in terms of style, so it sounded "old" even when it was new. It's a stylistic choice, he wasn't going for a "high-budget Hollywood action movie" sound with his score.

[Gaffer Tape]

Oh, my mistake then. It's great that Kikuchi's score was recorded with a huge, symphonic orchestra absolutely out of reach for worldwide TV series, I'm glad he was given a high movie budget for his music. When Yamamoto had the right to record 2 orchestral tracks in all the history of Dragon Ball, both included on the Super Butoden 2 soundtrack... How come these 2 orchestral soundtracks sound like actual orchestra when none of Kikuchi do? Oh, I know: maybe they were never orchestral to begin with...

Um... they were. I don't know why you seem dead set on not believing any of us or your own ears, but nearly all of Kikuchi's pieces for Dragon Ball were arranged with real, live instruments. I have to say, this is the absolute first time I've ever heard this argument before. Usually, the detractors of Kikuchi are the ones complaining that it is orchestrated rather than using the heavy metal, artificial, obviously synth sounds of Faulconer.