Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 16; Still Unreleased

[sven-]

Maybe you're blinded by nostalgia. Because I recently bought the first Ocean Dub box set to check it out and... That dub is pretty bad. The acting is overly cheesy, the dialog is written for five-year-olds, and the script couldn't get any more inaccurate. I'll agree that those first hatchet-job 53 episodes were of better quality than FUNimation's season 3 dub, but they were in no way good. They're just outside of laughably bad.

Oh yeah, the common misconceptions. Let me explain once more, Ocean only did the voice acting. They had nothing to do with the script (done by Funimation!), which indeed was inaccurate and cheesy.
But still, the voice acting was awesome, it had nice music (by Shuki Levi). Should we start about Faulconer...don't make me laugh.

Ocean really messed up the Cell and Boo arcs by obviously rushing things, if they rush Kai then it'll be a shame that we don't have the Funimation dub here.

The rushing wasn't Oceans fault. Ocean only had 1 maybe 1,5 year to dub over 150 episodes. Funimation did the job in roughly 3 years. But think, why, if we already had the Funimation dub, was Ocean called to start dubbing again? Yes, because people couldn't stand the Funimation dub, with their from the street hired VA's. At least Ocean could deliver a professional job.

[Daimo-Rukiri]

Maybe you're blinded by nostalgia. Because I recently bought the first Ocean Dub box set to check it out and... That dub is pretty bad. The acting is overly cheesy, the dialog is written for five-year-olds, and the script couldn't get any more inaccurate. I'll agree that those first hatchet-job 53 episodes were of better quality than FUNimation's season 3 dub, but they were in no way good. They're just outside of laughably bad.

Oh yeah, the common misconceptions. Let me explain once more, Ocean only did the voice acting. They had nothing to do with the script (done by Funimation!), which indeed was inaccurate and cheesy.
But still, the voice acting was awesome, it had nice music (by Shuki Levi). Should we start about Faulconer...don't make me laugh.

Ocean really messed up the Cell and Boo arcs by obviously rushing things, if they rush Kai then it'll be a shame that we don't have the Funimation dub here.

The rushing wasn't Oceans fault. Ocean only had 1 maybe 1,5 year to dub over 150 episodes. Funimation did the job in roughly 3 years. But think, why, if we already had the Funimation dub, was Ocean called to start dubbing again? Yes, because people couldn't stand the Funimation dub, with their from the street hired VA's. At least Ocean could deliver a professional job.

Compared to their other works, ocean didn't even try.

[Innagadadavida]

Maybe you're blinded by nostalgia. Because I recently bought the first Ocean Dub box set to check it out and... That dub is pretty bad. The acting is overly cheesy, the dialog is written for five-year-olds, and the script couldn't get any more inaccurate. I'll agree that those first hatchet-job 53 episodes were of better quality than FUNimation's season 3 dub, but they were in no way good. They're just outside of laughably bad.

Oh yeah, the common misconceptions. Let me explain once more, Ocean only did the voice acting. They had nothing to do with the script (done by Funimation!), which indeed was inaccurate and cheesy.
But still, the voice acting was awesome, it had nice music (by Shuki Levi). Should we start about Faulconer...don't make me laugh.

Ok, then, well let me explain to you what a dub is. A dub is an English version of a Japanese show. It replaces the Japanese voices with English voices. Work that goes into dubbing includes, translating, scripting, recording, editing, ext. So when you say "Ocean could already pull off a good dub (1-53 were amazing)", you're not specific enough for what you claim your point is. You can't just say 1-53 was amazing because Ocean did it, if all Ocean did were the voices. What you mean is that the "acting and casting in the cut episodes 1-53 were amazing". To that I disagree. The acting was not all that great. It was acceptable. Slightly worse than FUNimation's inhouse dub of the Buu saga. Certainly not "amazing" by any stretch of the imagination. The only type of person who would say that is someone who has a personal attachment to that dub.

Furthermore, I'd really like to see some written evidence for your claim that FUNimation scripted the show. It seems feesable, but I've never heard it until an Ocean fanboy told me so, therefore the credibility is extremely faulty.

Shuki Levi's score was one step more bland and generic than Falconor's worse. And both are inferior to Shunsuke Kikuchi.

[sven-]

Just look it up on the internet for yourself. In the early days Funimation didn't do voices, they didn't dub. Funimation did the production, they hired Ocean for their major talent, Saban did the censoring. Later on, Ocean was too expensive so they had to settle with their in-house "talent".

[Turtle Marked Stone]

Why are you telling him to search the internet to back up your claim? Shouldn't that task kind of be on you? Not trying to be rude or anything but that seems a little unfair. I'd actually like to see a source on this myself.

[JulieYBM]

For the record, one of my copies of the ending theme for those episodes does state the episode was written by Christopher Neel and Chirs Forbis, but at the same time I know Ward Perry wrote for the dubs of the movies.

[TripleRach]

Oh yeah, the common misconceptions. Let me explain once more, Ocean only did the voice acting. They had nothing to do with the script (done by Funimation!), which indeed was inaccurate and cheesy.

That's not entirely true. Some Ocean actors did contribute to scripts (I know Ian Corlett was one of them), and other actors worked as directors (like Terry Klassen).

[Gaffer Tape]

This is true, but, just because they did voice work for Ocean, does that mean that you can accurately say that Ocean is responsible for the scripts? I mean, let's say I'm working as an actor under contract for 20th Century Fox, and then I go and write scripts for Universal. Can you say that 20th Century Fox is responsible for this script written for Universal just because it happened to be written by a Fox employee? Granted, this is a bit of a grayer area, since FUNimation was employing Ocean to do the voices. So I guess what I'm wondering is did FUNimation hire Ocean for the scripts, or did they just happen to employ some voice actors working under them already? And for that matter, weren't Ian Corlett and Terry Klassen not officially part of Ocean anyway? AND if all that is true, does it even really matter, or would you just consider it a technicality (as in, "Oh, well, it's not OFFICIALLY Ocean, but, for all intents and purposes, it still is")?

[penguintruth]

I imagine it was very much a combined effort, since the scripts had to be done a certain way as to be appropriate for American television.

[Gaffer Tape]

Well, that's assuming that Ocean was, indeed, responsible for the scripts. If FUNimation was responsible for the scripts themselves, or if the voice actors responsible for doing so were working under FUNimation and not Ocean, then there probably wasn't any tight collaboration other than FUNimation giving them the finished scripts and saying, "Have your actors read these lines."

[JulieYBM]

Barry Watson is credited as a voice director. I'd consider those episodes fifty-three Ocean did to not be 'the Ocean dub', but 'FUNi's first dub'.

[Gaffer Tape]

I do remember reading about Barry Watson having to travel back and forth from Texas to Canada to oversee vocal work, but I didn't remember that he was actually a voice director. But, yeah, I agree. The first 53 episodes were definitely FUNimation's, regardless of whatever impact other companies might have had on it. I'd always considered Ocean to be little more than hired hands, their only real official creative contribution being in the realm of what voices were cast (there was an interview with Fukunaga where he claimed that he was dissatisfied with Vegeta's voice, but that may have just been PR talk to mollify the anti-Brian Drummond interviewer). But I'd certainly be interested to know if their influence extended beyond that.

[RazorX]

Let me ask you something. If the Ocean English dub of Dragon Ball Kai was released first and after a good number of episodes, information about a second English dub by Funimation was leaked, would you hold the same stance against the Funimation dub in this scenario?

You do realise that by ignoring the question you make the answer seem obvious.

I'll also ask this question to Piccolo Daimaoh, SparkyPantsMcGee and anyone else who feels like answering.
I would've included penguintruth but I think I can guess his answer.

I really don't get what you are asking but I'll try to answer things to the best of my abilities. If things were like they were before Kai; where Funimation not only had a fully finished dub but was also the establish cast for both home releases and video games then, if anything, I'd be confused about Ocean doing Kai first. I would still check it out but I think my first reaction over anything else would be towards them taking the series over again. If Funimation did a version of Kai after Ocean I'd be even more confused. I'd probably feel the same way I do now, asking why we need two dubs. On top of that, I think I'd be more interested in how Ocean got Kai first.

So basically you're saying that if Ocean dubbed Kai first, then we got word of another English dub of Kai by Funimation, you'd call the Funimation dub pointless and argue all the countries should broadcast the Ocean dub.

The reason for my question was because I suspect there was some double standard/hypocrisy going on by some people who were complaining about "another English dub" in that if the situation was reversed, they wouldn't have the stance they have against the "other English dub" because of their preference towards a certain dub and inability to understand other people prefer a different dub and they shouldn't have to accept a certain dub if they don't have to. (I noticed my question hasn't been answered by the others I asked, yet)

Regardless of who does it(Funimation or Ocean) I feel we only need one primary English dub(like every other dub in the universe...excluding the Asian exclusive dubs Super Saiyan Prime mentioned). The only reason I lean more towards Funimation is because they have established themselves as that primary Dub. Even though Ocean finished the series, Funimation's cast is the cast that is on all the home releases and video games and to me they are essentially the cast of Dragonball. They have been the *leading English cast* for those characters for over 10 years. We could argue quality and personal preference all day long but that's not what this topic was really aimed for and I don't really care to derail the thread. It's not like I don't have an interest in the Ocean dub, I'm really curious about what they can do(which is why I'm following this thread).

*Please understand that when I see leading English cast it is because they dominate the home releases and the video game roles on top of having a fully complete dub of every version of Dragonball. I know Ocean finished the series, but outside of the television broadcast and early VHS releases(before Funimation's cast took over) I don't know of any home releases or video game vocal dubs.*

Just because Funimation dubbed the movies doesn't make them the official dub. The games are a different matter. Funimation can dub as many movies as they like. Ocean will always be the official dub for me. Funimation's DVDs aren't even available to most countries who received an English dub so that argument is quite invalid.

Speaking of games, the UK got Japanese only voices for Budokai 1 and Super DBZ, despite being an English speaking country, so don't think that Funimation's voices get into all the English releases of the DBZ games.

Now then, in an attempt to bring this thread back on point; What did you find?

Something quite interesting, behindthevoiceactors has a picture of Bardock listed under Paul Dobson's credits in his profile page. I don't know if they have any official confirmation of who's voicing who in Ocean's Kai dub but clearly someone has to voice Bardock. If it is Paul Dobson then that'll be interesting.

Crystalacids had a page up for Ocean's Kai dub before Kirby Morrow let us know, so if behindthevoices are correct, they wouldn't be the first ones to reveal information before its official confirmation.

The rushing wasn't Oceans fault. Ocean only had 1 maybe 1,5 year to dub over 150 episodes.

That's actually incorrect. Ocean took between 2.5 to 3 years to dub episodes 108-276. We know this because production started in spring/summer of 2000 and in December 2002, Don Brown confirmed they had recently completed the voice recordings and post production work was ongoing. Plus Kirby Morrow said he spent 3 years recording the voice for Goku, even if it was a bit less, I think Kirby would know he didn't spend a year voicing Goku.

But think, why, if we already had the Funimation dub, was Ocean called to start dubbing again? Yes, because people couldn't stand the Funimation dub, with their from the street hired VA's. At least Ocean could deliver a professional job.

Agreed.

Certainly not "amazing" by any stretch of the imagination. The only type of person who would say that is someone who has a personal attachment to that dub.

Not always. There are performances which really are amazing in the Ocean dub, such as Drummond's Vegeta.

Furthermore, I'd really like to see some written evidence for your claim that FUNimation scripted the show. It seems feesable, but I've never heard it until an Ocean fanboy told me so, therefore the credibility is extremely faulty.

Funimation was the licensor and they most likely approved the scripts. They probably supervised the scripts but I think it's safe to assume that Funimation had more responsibility for the scripts than Ocean in episodes 1-53. Funimation also credit themselves for post production. They didn't have a studio at the time and Barry Watson was flying from Texas to Vancouver to "supervise things."

It's not like the DBZ movies 1-3 dub where Pioneer produced them "in association with Funimation." I take that as meaning Pioneer and Ocean produced the movies independently from Funimation but got the license from them to do so.

[penguintruth]

Well, as I've been saying for the past 35 pages of this lovely speculatory thread, an Ocean dub of Kai is a curiousity, and I'd certainly like to hear if Ocean can measure up to Funimation's dub, but at this point I have my doubts this will even be made.

Frankly, though I loathe most of what I've seen (or rather, heard) of the later seasons of Ocean's dub, I do quite like some of the Buu arc cast, like Brad Swaile as older Gohan, Cathy Weseluck as Trunks, and Andrew Francis as the older Dende. Unfortunately, since Kai is stopping before that material...

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

I've found a little something, but first....

There really doesn't need to be multiple dubs of one series, it's pointless.

Let me ask you something. If the Ocean English dub of Dragon Ball Kai was released first and after a good number of episodes, information about a second English dub by Funimation was leaked, would you hold the same stance against the Funimation dub in this scenario?

You do realise that by ignoring the question you make the answer seem obvious.

I'll also ask this question to Piccolo Daimaoh, SparkyPantsMcGee and anyone else who feels like answering.
I would've included penguintruth but I think I can guess his answer.

As a matter of fact, I would. Having two dubs of one Anime (with presumably similar scripts) is redundant. An Ocean dub of Dragon Ball Z Kai may be profitable, but that doesn't change its superfluity.

[Dark Vegeta-Sama]

Funimation was the licensor and they most likely approved the scripts. They probably supervised the scripts but I think it's safe to assume that Funimation had more responsibility for the scripts than Ocean in episodes 1-53. Funimation also credit themselves for post production. They didn't have a studio at the time and Barry Watson was flying from Texas to Vancouver to "supervise things."

FUNimation was a brand new company with no money at the time. They hired various Ocean actors to script the show because they also happened to be writers. Notable names include Ian Corlett, Terry Klassen, Michael Donovan, and Ward Perry, and this can be easily verified by checking the ending credits in seasons 1 and 2. Terry Klassen actually kept writing FUNi's scripts in seasons 3 and 4, even though the voice of Krillin had been recast.

That said, the writers were crafting the scripts based around guidelines set by FUNimation and Saban's censorship standards. The scripts were crap, but the writers were doing what they were told to do. Bottom line, FUNimation and Saban are responsible for how seasons 1 and 2 turned out, the good and the bad.

Barry Watson was a supervisor but also the voice director in seasons 1 and 2. This was confirmed by people like Ian Corlett and Peter Kelamis when they were interviewed on Chris Psaros' old DBZ Uncensored website. Brian Drummond has also mentioned having been directed by Barry Watson several times over the years, most notably at a convention a couple of years ago when he humorously told the story of how Barry bought him a box of donuts after he nailed the highly memorable "You'll never escape....MY WRATH!" scene in the early Namek episodes. I believe a video of him telling this story was put up on youtube at some point.

[MetaMoss]

I consider an Ocean Dub of Kai not much more than a curiosity because even though I did watch the Ocean Dub of DBZ Seasons 1 and 2, I was only the age of 2 at the time, so I really don't remember the voices before Season 3, and even then I didn't remember much stuff until Season 4 aired, so by then FUNi's in-house dub was hard-burned into my brain. Though I do think that they did a better job than FUNi in dubbing. One thing to note, I noticed through comparison videos that FUNi used the old scrips from the Ocean dub for the stuff that it covered in the Ultimate Uncut Edition Dub.

[Gaffer Tape]

Well, that's because, as has been said before, the first two seasons were still FUNimation's dub, not Ocean's. So FUNimation was just reusing their own scripts for their redub. It's not really analogous to how Ocean used FUNimation's scripts for their own later seasons.

[Dark Vegeta-Sama]

Well, that's because, as has been said before, the first two seasons were still FUNimation's dub, not Ocean's. So FUNimation was just reusing their own scripts for their redub. It's not really analogous to how Ocean used FUNimation's scripts for their own later seasons.

Not that it excuses the practice, but Terry Klassen (Ocean's Krillin) remained one of FUNi's head writers through the end of season 4, and was involved with the scripts of the later Ocean dub, which means that when Ocean was dubbing season 4, Klassen was essentially reusing his own scripts. This was probably deemed necessary became A) it was cost-effective, and B) the rushed production schedule of the Ocean dub didn't allow for script-rewrites when they had to get through so many episodes in such a short amount of time.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

Not that it excuses the practice, but Terry Klassen (Ocean's Krillin) remained one of FUNi's head writers through the end of season 4, and was involved with the scripts of the later Ocean dub, which means that when Ocean was dubbing season 4, Klassen was essentially reusing his own scripts. This was probably deemed necessary became A) it was cost-effective, and B) the rushed production schedule of the Ocean dub didn't allow for script-rewrites when they had to get through so many episodes in such a short amount of time.

Not for nothing, but how badly were they rushed? Everyone says this but it's not like Funimation had all the time in the world. I don't see why they couldn't write there own script like Funi did and still put them out at a similar pace.