Episode #0253 (27 March 2011)

Post by **VegettoEX** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:12 am

Episode #0253 (download MP3) (rss feed)
85:56; 96 kbps, mono; 59.3 MB

Episode #0253! VegettoEX and Meri discuss a few news tidbits (such as the end of the "DragonBall Kai" TV broadcast in Japan) before turning it over to Herms for part one of our look at the "intended endings" to the series. Fans often claim that the author absolutely intended to end the manga with the Freeza story arc, but is this actually true? What evidence exists pointing to specific story arcs that could have served as the ending? Referenced sites:

Lantis CD Release Date Delay Announcement @ lantis.jp
Toriyama & Shueisha Support Video (English) @ YouTube
Jump Author Support Drawings @ shonenjump.com
Toriyama's Intended Endings @ Kanzentai (coming soon!)

w0rd.

songohan619 · Post by **songohan619** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:05 pm

When will you read my E-mail?
I sent it last summer!

Post by **VegettoEX** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:08 pm

Podcasting inside baseball:

If an e-mail sucks or we don't like it for some reason (particularly if it would only be interesting to the author who sent it), we don't read it. If we read every e-mail we got, we wouldn't do anything else. Ever.

Sorry. You can stop asking, now

.

songohan619 · Post by **songohan619** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:00 pm

VegettoEX wrote:Podcasting inside baseball:

If an e-mail sucks or we don't like it for some reason (particularly if it would only be interesting to the author who sent it), we don't read it. If we read every e-mail we got, we wouldn't do anything else. Ever.

Sorry. You can stop asking, now .

Oh, OK.
I thought you were angry with me, or something, because i`ve been asking you about the E-mail for some time now.

Kirbopher · Post by **Kirbopher** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:50 pm

I'm about 46 minutes in now, really enjoying this episode, just figured I'd pop in with some further details.

When I had lunch with Sabat at the convention, yes he was indeed talking about the Shonen Jump event that you guys spoke of. That information about the supposed end at the Freeza arc came from a conversation he and Toriyama had with -each other-. I don't remember exactly if it was during a break or a dinner or something, not really sure, but I know it definitely wasn't heard second-hand. Further proof of this, when the OnePiecePodcast folks were interviewing Sabat just yesterday, he made a comment about he "knows things about Dragon Ball that most people don't know". Like I've also said, he's as fully-invested into the show as all of us are, working on it for +10 years, so I think the info he got from Toriyama at the time sounded like stuff he was curious about from his own standpoint. Either way, thanks for including that bit, I had forgotten I'd even put it on the forum anywhere. XD

MetaMoss · Post by **MetaMoss** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:51 pm

I'm happy to say this will be my first podcast episode that I'll listen to on my 3DS! This is also the first podcast episode that I read the forum thread that originated the subject before hearing the podcast episode...

songohan619 · Post by **songohan619** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:08 am

Hey Mike, seen this? I hope your not angry:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJgCFCtmKAs

Post by **VegettoEX** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:20 am

Please try to keep things on-topic and relevant to the actual subject. This is why I keep deleting your posts. If you have a question for me, by all means send me an e-mail or something.

songohan619 · Post by **songohan619** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:42 am

VegettoEX wrote:Please try to keep things on-topic and relevant to the actual subject. This is why I keep deleting your posts. If you have a question for me, by all means send me an e-mail or something.

Sorry.
I`ve tried to send you PMs before, and I`m sorry about being such a BEEEEEEEEEEEP.

Chuquita · Post by **Chuquita** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:29 pm

I think it's kind of funny that people were more upset at the idea of Goku getting married than the idea of Goku getting to go through puberty and spend the rest of the series as an adult.
No wonder Chi-Chi didn't even make the top 20 favorite character poll in Dragon Ball Forever.

dbgtFO · Post by **dbgtFO** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:30 pm

The thing about Piccolo and being revealed as a Namekian..
Way before Nappa and Vegeta arrived, God prophesized that he and Piccolo would die in a year, but he wasn't sure, if it would be because his lifespan would just run out or Piccolo would die in the battle against the Saiyans.
God then says that the Dragon Balls can only be used one more time.

So to me it seems that Toriyama revealed that Piccolo was a Namekian, because he intended for Piccolo and God to die rendering the Dragon Balls unusable, which meant he would need another set of Dragon Balls to revive the other dead guys.

So I believe that Toriyama had some idea about the guys eventually going to Namek, when the truth about Piccolo and God's birth place was revealed.

Edit:
Now that I gave the podcast a second listen, it seems that you were referring to Toriyama thinking Piccolo was an alien, when God was introduced and not when Nappa and Vegeta told Piccolo he was from Namek...

MetaMoss · Post by **MetaMoss** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:33 pm

Interesting discussion, can't wait for part two. I've been curious about the subject of supposed planned endings for DB for awhile, so it's great to hear the discussion about this. I would think that AT would've hoped to end the series long before it did, but of course he didn't plan it ahead.

Chibi Gohan · Post by **Chibi Gohan** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:30 pm

Awesome podcast this week. I read the thread on the intended endings, and I'd have to say it's much better hearing it being discussed rather than just reading it. Can't wait for part 2

.

Michsi · Post by **Michsi** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:21 am

I still believe that the trip to namek was at least partially planned out earlier than we think. But we already discussed this in the other thread

What I found interesting was hearing about the fan out cry of Goku getting married. I have to admit I also disliked the idea when I first saw this happening in DB, Goku just didn't strike me as the type to settle down and be a familiy man. I wonder if this has anything to do with him often ending up neglecting his family and leaving them at the drop of the hat. I guess Toriyama wanted him to have a kid yet at the same time not to change his spirit and desire for adventures.
Whatever the intention was, it still doesn't change on how he appears as a character and person with that attitude.

Also thank you, I now finally know where Daysprings avatar comes from. I've been meaning to ask him/her where she got the picture from because it seemed to Toriyama-ish to be fanart

@ Chuquita
What's this DB Forever poll?

Ahiru77 · Post by **Ahiru77** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:23 am

Editors can go ride a bike!!!!!

Just kidding, they did their work. But really all I heard from their sides was complaints about the androids looking all wrong and Akira saying he based his most evil characters on his editors. So....yeah.

*responds to Goku getting married*...."ohhh I'm gonna die."

Chuquita · Post by **Chuquita** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:48 pm

Michsi wrote: @ Chuquita
What's this DB Forever poll?

In the "Ultimate Characters" section, there's a ranking created by polling fans of who their top 20 favorite characters are. (Goku wins overwhelmingly with 6,235 votes. Vegeta is second place with 2,527 votes just to show how big a margin Goku won by.)

To add further, even Yajirobe made it to place 19th. Videl came in 20th. Chi-Chi didn't even place.

Kanzentai has a picture of the cover here: http://www.kanzentai.com/non-daiz.php

Michsi · Post by **Michsi** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:43 pm

Oh is it that one where the first 5 were Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Trunks and Piccolo?

Chuquita · Post by **Chuquita** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:45 pm

Michsi wrote:Oh is it that one where the first 5 were Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Trunks and Piccolo?

Yup! :3 The article also explains why fans chose who they chose, but my Japanese isn't good enough for me to be able to translate it. ^^;

Majin Buu · Post by **Majin Buu** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:24 pm

Slightly off topic, but as a fan of the Buu arc, I am pleased that you guys debunked all of these rumors about Toriyama's plans, intentions, "mindsets, etc. Mainly because they're often used to argue about why the Buu arc is bad. I see statements such as "you can tell Toriyama didn't have his heart in it anymore (which that alone is just speculation, which I'll address later), that's because he intended to end it at Freeza, and then Cell" all the time from detractors even though there's really nothing (or next to nothing) to back up those claims.

And something that you mentioned in the episode that stuck out to me is your statement that more crazy the material seems, the more fun Toriyama is having with it. Going back to the "Toriyama didn't have his heart in it anymore" argument people use to say why the Buu arc is bad, given the increased emphasis on humor and all the crazy things that happen in it, you would think that based on what we know about Toriyama, and taking what you guys said into account, that he would have had MORE fun with the Buu arc than say, the Cell arc, and would not have half-assed it the way a lot of fans believe he did. I know this is just speculation as well, but it feels more grounded in reality than what I usually see.

Hope I didn't step on your feet as you have yet to cover the Cell and Buu arcs in this discussion.

dbgtFO · Post by **dbgtFO** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:34 am

Majin Buu wrote:Going back to the "Toriyama didn't have his heart in it anymore" argument people use to say why the Buu arc is bad, given the increased emphasis on humor and all the crazy things that happen in it, you would think that based on what we know about Toriyama, and taking what you guys said into account, that he would have had MORE fun with the Buu arc than say, the Cell arc, and would not have half-assed it the way a lot of fans believe he did. I know this is just speculation as well, but it feels more grounded in reality than what I usually see.

No your reasonings are good, Toriyama even said he had fun drawing the Gotenks vs. Majin Buu battle:

That's why it was fun drawing Majin Buu and Gotenks' fight. I thought up strange techniques in the spirit of a gag manga. (laughs)

http://www.kanzentai.com/trans-daiz04.p ... rview#link

Kanzenshuu

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