Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[p123]

Yea... Which is why I question why you use such a small multiplier. IMO, a 50x multiplier is actually needed for Base Trunks ( Cell Games )

Do you have an account on NeoSeeker? I don't want to get too numerical here, it's more frowned upon, especially at the rate I do , if you come to Neo, we can get more into the numerics, without causing frowns. Or should I just display my Cell Saga numbers in the Power Levels thread? And we can discuss it there? Eh, they don't like too much in depth numerical talk there either, but at least you will see them. What do you want me to do?

[CatouttaHell]

No, I don't have a Neoseeker account, I'll make one. I love power level discussions and I don't want to flood this forum with power comparison discussions as it seems that it isn't very popular here.

[Rocketman]

The power gaps in the series are INSANE.

Are they? There's no functional difference between

#18 - 20,000,000
SS Vegeta - 18,000,000
SS Goku on Namek - 15,000,000

and

#18 - 300,000,000
SS Vegeta - 280,000,000
SS Goku on Namek - 150,000,000.

There is literally no difference in how these scenarios would play out.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Just look at the back cover page. Piccolo is almost incapable of standing up, he is bloody and beaten up. Opposed to Vegeta and Trunks only have a few bruises. It doesn't have to be a black and white situation. And lets imagine Piccolo did as good as Vegeta and Trunks that doesn't mean anything whether or not Piccolo surpassed #16 since the android never fought a Cell Jr.

You see, that doesn't help me, because Piccolo looks just as bruised as Vegeta and Trunks. Piccolo, Vegeta and Trunks are standing up against the Cell Juniors, while Goku and the Earthlings are not. Simple. No "Piccolo has 2 more bruises on his face than Vegeta and Trunks, therefore he was beaten up by the Cell Junior" bullshit.

[CatouttaHell]

The Cell Juniors were ALL holding back though. For all we know, the one that was fighting Piccolo really pitied him or really wanted to have a good fight and that's why he wasn't unconscious or dead. Cell HIMSELF said that only Vegeta and Trunks were holding their own, neither he nor Gohan went on to even remotely contradict that statement.

[Piccolo Daimao]

The Cell Juniors were ALL holding back though. For all we know, the one that was fighting Piccolo really pitied him or really wanted to have a good fight and that's why he wasn't unconscious or dead. Cell HIMSELF said that only Vegeta and Trunks were holding their own, neither he nor Gohan went on to even remotely contradict that statement.

Holding back enough for Vegeta, Trunks and Piccolo to fight evenly with them (we see that Vegeta landed a punch on his Cell Junior) or not get floored like Son Goku and the Earthlings?

And this:

Chapter: 407 (DBZ 213), P5.3
Context: as the Cell Juniors beat everyone up
Cell: “If you don’t show your true worth soon, things will go past the point of no return. Look closely. Vegeta or Trunks are barely fighting evenly…Even Son Goku is in trouble, having lost his stamina…”
Note: Cell says that “Vegeta ya Trunks” are fighting evenly; ya is a non-exhaustive word for ‘and’, meaning the things listed aren’t necessarily the only things there are to list. In other words, Cell’s line doesn’t necessarily mean that nobody but Trunks or Vegeta are fighting evenly, just that they’re the first examples to come to mind

[p123]

It's quite apparent that AT was not too sure of where he was going to go with Piccolo Post Rosat. In the Cell Games, he has various hints.

His statements, and Goku's imply he is probably nowhere near 50% MSSJ Goku. Yet his fight with Cell Jrs, kind of imply. Then is the Buu Saga, he is straight up trash.

I would doubt that Goku considers 50% his power, really all that weak. And he straight up tells Piccolo he can't do anything. That's not reflective of an MSSJ level power...

[Piccolo Daimao]

It's quite apparent that AT was not too sure of where he was going to go with Piccolo Post Rosat. In the Cell Games, he has various hints.

His statements, and Goku's imply he is probably nowhere near 50% MSSJ Goku. Yet his fight with Cell Jrs, kind of imply. Then is the Buu Saga, he is straight up trash.

I would doubt that Goku considers 50% his power, really all that weak. And he straight up tells Piccolo he can't do anything. That's not reflective of an MSSJ level power...

I don't think Toriyama really cared about exactly where he placed Piccolo, just that he was strong enough to hold his own against the Cell Juniors, but couldn't do shit against Cell. Simple as. The only reason he's trash in the Boo arc is because Gohan was already way stronger than him and has stayed at the same level, Vegeta's been training his ass off in the gravity room and Goku's been training in the afterlife and has achieved Super Saiyan 3 (which puts pretty much everyone on the backburner). All three have got Super Saiyan 2 now. Nothing about how Piccolo's power was represented changed between the Cell arc and the Boo arc. I'm not saying that he didn't increase in power (like many fans seem to assume just because Gohan and Kuririn stopped training), but in both the Cell arc and the Boo arc, he was established to be below the Super Saiyans and far below Super Saiyan 2.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Saiyan arc

Raditz Invades

Son Gokû: 334
Without weights: 416
Kamehameha: 924

Piccolo: 322
Without weights: 408
Makankôsappô: 1,330
After fighting Raditz: 329

Son Gohan: 1
Upset: 710
Enraged: 1,307

Raditz: 1,500

Kame-sennin: 139
Kuririn: 206
Yamcha: 177
Tenshinhan: 250

Farmer: 5

Duel with the Saiyan Prince

Son Gokû: 5,000
Full power: 8,012
Kaiô-ken: 16,024
Kaiô-ken x3: 24,036
Weakened, Kaiô-ken x3, Kamehameha: 18,000
Kaiô-ken x4, Kamehameha: 24,000

Piccolo: 1,220
Full power: 2,652

Son Gohan: 981
Full power: 1,050
Masenko: 2,800

Kuririn: 1,083
Full power: 1,751

Yamcha: 1,593
Tenshinhan: 2,000
Chaozu: 900

Saibaimen; 1,200

Nappa: 7,500

Vegeta: 18,000
Ôzaru: 120,000

Freeza arc

The War over the Dragon Balls

Son Gohan: 1,480

Kuririn: 1,510
Without weights: 2,060

Vegeta: 24,000
Zenkai: 30,000

Kiwi: 18,000

Young Namekians: 1,000
Full power: 3,000

Dodoria: 22,000

Zarbon: 23,000
Transformed: 28,000

The Ginyu Force Arrives!

Son Gokû: 5,000
Full power: 90,000
Kaiô-ken: 180,000

Son Gohan: 12,000
Against Ginyu: 27,000

Kuririn: 11,000
Against Ginyu: 24,000

Vegeta: 30,000

Nail: 42,000

Captain Ginyu: 90,000
Full power: 120,000
In Gokû’s body: 23,000

Recoom: 45,000
Butta: 44,000
Jheese: 44,500
Gurd: 2,500

The Strongest Vs. The Evilest

Son Gokû: 3,000,000
Kaiô-ken x10: 30,000,000
Injured, Kaiô-ken x20: 48,000,000
Kaiô-ken x20, Kamehameha: 58,000,000
Super Saiyan: 150,000,000

Piccolo: 60,000
Merged with Nail: 1,300,000
Full power: 1,625,000

Son Gohan: 80,000
Enraged: 1,000,000
Zenkai: 400,000
Bakurikimaha: 2,000,000

Kuririn: 75,000

Vegeta: 500,000
Zenkai: 2,500,000

Freeza: 530,000
2nd form: 1,060,000
Powered up: 1,200,000
Full power: 1,500,000
3rd form: 2,120,000
True form: 3,180,000
50%: 60,000,000
100%: 120,000,000

I'll likely add explanations at a later date, since I can't be bothered to do so now.

[dbgtFO]

Son Goku’s Great Adventure

Meeting Bulma (Age 749)

Bulma: 5.

Son Goku: 10.
-Oozaru: 100.

Yamcha: 8.

Kuririn: 7.

The 21st Tenkaichi Budoukai (Age 749-750)

Son Goku: 28.

Kuririn: 21.

Yamcha: 12.

Namu: 25.

Jacky Chun: 30.

The Battle with the Red Ribbon Army (Age 750)

Son Goku: 32.
-After training under Karin: 50.

Karin: 75.

Tao Pai Pai: 40.

Mummy-kun: 33.

Akkuman: 38.

The Masked Man (Son Gohan): 48.

The 22nd Tenkaichi Budoukai (Age 753)

Son Goku: 60.
-Battle Strength: 70.

King Chapa: 42.

Pan-Poot: 24.

Kuririn: 50.

Yamcha: 46.

Jacky Chun: 60.

Tsuru-sennin: 52.

Tenshinhan: 65.

The Revival of Piccolo Daimao (Age 753)

Son Goku: 210.

Yajirobe: 67.

Cymbal: 20.

Tambourine: 60.

Drum: 80.

Piccolo Daimao: 165.
-Young: 205.

Mister Popo: 260.

The 23rd Tenkaichi Budoukai (Age 756)

Son Goku: 250.
-Without Weights: 402.
-Super Kamehameha: 910.

Anonymous (Chi Chi): 130.

Cyborg Tao Pai Pai: 160.

Tenshinhan: 240.
-Shishin no Ken: 60 each body.

Kuririn: 196.

Shen (God): 340.

Ma Junior (Piccolo): 360
-Full Power: 394.
-Shockwave: 890.

Invasion of the Saiyans

Raditz Invades (Age 761)

Son Goku: 334.
-Without weights: 416.
-Kamehameha: 924.

Piccolo: 322.
-Without weights: 408.
-Makankosappo: 1,330.
-After fighting Raditz: 329.

Son Gohan: 1~710.
-Angry: 1,307.
-Oozaru: 7100.

Raditz: 1,500.

Kame-sennin: 139.
Kuririn: 206.
Tenshinhan: 250.
Yamcha: 177.

Farmer: 5.

Kaio-sama’s Training (Age 761)

Kaio-sama: 3,500.
-telling jokes: 0.0035.

About Ki, Genki and Shouki
Ki = 1; Genki = 0.000001; Shouki = 0.001.

Duel with the Saiyan Prince (Age 762)

Son Goku: 5,000.
-Full Power: 8,000.
-Kaio-ken x2: 16,000.
-Kaio-ken x3: 24,000.
-Kaio-ken x4: 32,000.

Genkidama: 60,000.
-second try: 30,000.

Piccolo: 1,220.
-Hypothetical Makankossapo: 3,500.
-scared of Nappa: 2,000.

Son Gohan: 981.
-Full Power: 1,300.
-Masenko: 2,800.
-Oozaru: 13,000.

Kuririn: 1,083.
-Full Power: 1,770.

Tenshinhan: 1,120.
-Full Power: 1,830.

Chaozu: 1220.
-useless self destruct: 610.

Yamcha: 1,480.

Yajirobe: 970.

Saibaiman: 1,200.

Nappa: 4,000.
-when calm he fights like his BP is really: 8,000.

Vegeta: 18,000.
-Galick Cannon: 18,000, but pushes with the same amount of force as Goku's 24,000 Kamehameha.
-Oozaru: 50,000.

The Give-and-Take Battle on Planet Namek

The War Over the Dragonballs (Age 762)

Son Gohan: 5.
-Full Power: 1,400.

Kuririn: 5.
-With weights: 1,500.
-Full Power: 1,800.

Vegeta: 24,000.
-Revival Power-up: 30,000.

Kyui: 18,000.

Young Namekians: around 1,000.
-Full Power: 3,000.

Dodoria: 22,000.

Zarbon: 23,000.
-Transformed: 29,900.

The Ginyu Special-Squad Arrives! (Age 762)

Son Gohan: 14,000.
Kuririn: 13,000.
Vegeta: 30,000.
-scared of Recoom: 20,000.
Gurd: 5,000.

Recoome: 46,000.
Butta: 44,000.
Jheese: 45,000.

Captain Ginyu: 75,000.
-Full Power: 120,000.
-In Goku’s body: 23,000.

Son Goku: 5,000.
-in bursts: 70,000.
-Full Power: 90,000.
-Kaio-ken x2: 180,000.

Nail: 42,000.
-near death: 4.

The Strongest Vs the Evilest (Age 762)

Piccolo: 320,000.
-Merged with Nail: 1,280,000.
-Removing weights: 1,500,000.

Son Gohan: 200,000.
-Angry: 950,000.
-Revival Power-Up: 400,000.
-Revival Power-Up, angry full-power: 1,900,000.

Kuririn: 75,000.

Vegeta: 500,000.
Revival Power-Up: 2,400,000.

Son Goku: 3,000,000.
-Kaio-ken x10: 30,000,000.
-Kaio-ken x20: 60,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 150,000,000.

Genkidama: 90,000,000.

Freeza: 530,000.
-Second Form: 1,400,000.
-Third Form: 2,000,000.
-Final Form: 3,400,000.
-Final Form, 50%: 60,000,000.
-Final Form, 100%: 120,000,000.

The Androids and the Messenger from the Future

About Super Saiyan Swagger:

Super Saiyan: BPx50
Super Saiyan Second Grade: BPx100, as long as you haven't ascended to Super Saiyan Third Grade.
Super Saiyan Third Grade: Random
After reaching SSJ 3rd G, you simply can't get stronger in SSJ 2nd G, similar to Gohan not going SSJ against Majin Buu, since it would most likely not make him any stronger, but rather weaker.

Super Saiyan Full Power: Same power as SSJ G3, BPx50.
Super Saiyan 2: BPx100
Super Saiyan 3: BPx400

The Messenger from the Future (Age 764)

Mecha Freeza: 130,000,000.
King Cold: 110,000,000.

Trunks: 5.
-Full Power: 3,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 150,000,000.

Son Goku: 3,400,000.
-Super Saiyan: 170,000,000.

The Androids Activate (Age 767)

Son Goku: 4,800,000.
-Super Saiyan: 240,000,000.

Vegeta: 5,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 250,000,000.

Piccolo: 20,000,000.
-Full Power: 200,000,000.

Gohan: 2,000,000.

Kuririn: 2,500,000.

Tenshinhan: 4,000,000.

Yamcha: 1,500,000.

Android No.20: 100,000,000.
Android No.19: 80,000,000.

Android No.18: 360,000,000.

Android No.17: 400,000,000.

God and the Demon King (Age 767)

Piccolo: 400,000,000.
-Gekiretsu Kodan: 1,200,000,000.
Cell: 300,000,000.
-Kamehameha: 666,000,000 - Since Piccolo(who is below 408) back in the 23rd TB could take a Super Kamehameha(910) to the face just fine, I guess there is more to it than simply the Battle Power number...

The Room of Spirit and Time (Age 767)

Cell (after absorbing hundreds of thousands of people): 600,000,000.
-Second Form: 1,000,000,000.
-Second Form Full Power: 1,540,000,000.
-Kanzentai(warm-up): 1,900,000,000.
-Not warming up: 2,500,000,000.

Android No.16: 600,000,000.

Vegeta: 21,000,000.
-Super Saiyan Second Grade: 2,100,000,000.
-Final Flash: 8,400,000,000.

Trunks: 20,000,000.
-Super Saiyan Second Grade: 2,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan Third Grade: 3,750,000,000.

Cell Games (Age 767)

Mister Satan: 10.

Piccolo: 1,000,000,000.
-Fighting Cell Jr.: 3,500,000,000.

Vegeta: 75,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 3,750,000,000.

Trunks: 75,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 3,750,000,000.

Son Goku: 100,000,000.
-Super Saiyan Full Power: 5,000,000,000.
-All-Out Kamehameha: 15,000,000,000.

Son Gohan: 120,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 6,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 2: 24,000,000,000 - due to achieving SSJ 2 during an anger boost, his multiplier is beyond the normal one(which is why Teen Gohan is so weak, since he can't gain power from being angry).
-All-out Kamehameha: 72,000,000,000.

Cell Juniors: 4,000,000,000.

Cell Perfect Form: 5,500,000,000.
-Full Power: 10,000,000,000.
-All-Out Kamehameha: 22,000,000,000.
-Kanzentai Third Grade: 15,000,000,000.
-Revival Power-Up (+SSj2?): 20,000,000,000.
-All-out Kamehameha: 60,000,000,000.

Majin Buu’s Revival

About Kiri
200 kiri; battle power = 18,000. Edited.
300 kiri; battle power = 530,000. Edited.
800 kiri; battle power = 120,000,000.
3,000 kiri; battle power = 12,500,000,000.
4,000 kiri; battle power = 20,000,000,000.

Fusion and Potara Merging
Fusion: Random.
Potara: Vegetto = Vegeta x Goku

The 25th Tenkaichi Budoukai (Age 774)

Mister Satan: 5.

Videl: 30.

Son Goten: 120,000,000 - Daizenshuu 2's Growing Up section says: "[...]Goten posses battle power not the least bit inferior to even Gohan, so they consider Gohan(Cell Games) = Goten(Great Saiyaman Arc), which means I do as well. http://www.kanzentai.com/trans-daiz02.p ... ow_up#link
-Super Saiyan: 6,000,000,000.
-Holding back until volume 40: 600,000,000.

Trunks: 130,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 6,500,000,000.
-holding back until volume 40: 650,000,000.

Kibito: 120,000,000.

Shin (East Kaioshin): 10,000,000,000.
West Kaioshin: 12,000,000,000.
North Kaioshin: 13,000,000,000.
Great Kaioshin: 14,000,000,000.
South Kaioshin: 15,000,000,000.

Bibidi, Babidi, Buu (Age 774)

Son Gohan: 180,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 2: 18,000,000,000.
-Kamehameha: 54,000,000,000.

Son Goku: 250,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 12,500,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 2: 25,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 3: 100,000,000,000.
-holding back: 80,000,000,000.

Vegeta: 230,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 2: 23,000,000,000.
-Brain Washing+Super Saiyan 2: 25,000,000,000.
-Self Destruct: 25,000,000,001.

Gotenks: 50,000,000,000.
-overconfident: 50,000.
-Super Saiyan: 2,500,000,000,000.
--Daizenshuu 7 nerf: 80,000,000,000.

Babidi: 1,500.
Pui Pui: 18,000.
Yakon: 120,000,000.
Dabra: 20,000,000,000.
Majin Buu (Fat): 70,000,000,000.
-Mr. Buu: 20,000,000,000.
-Pure Evil Buu: 50,000,000,000.

Assimilation and Merging (Age 774)

Majin Buu (evil): 25,000,000,000,000,000.
-With Super Gotenks & Piccolo: 50,000,001,000,000,000.
-With Gohan, the two squirts & Piccolo: 60,000,002,250,000,000.
-With South Kaioshin: 30,000,000,000,000,000.

Kaioshin(merged): 1,000,000,000,000.

Gotenks: 62,500,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 3,125,000,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 2: 6,250,000,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 3: 25,000,000,000,000,000.

Son Gohan Ultimate Power: 35,000,000,000,000,000.

Vegetto: 62,500,000,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 3,125,000,000,000,000,000.

Final Battle
Mr. Satan: 5.
Mr. Buu: 20,000,000,000.
Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta: 25,000,000,000.
Super Saiyan 3 Goku: 100,000,000,000.
-Hypothetical All-Out Kamehameha: 500,000,000,000.

Genkidama: 1,000,000,000,000.
-Gohan's contribution: 35,000,000,000.

Majin Buu (pure): 90,000,000,000.
-Blast that destroys Earth: Off the charts!!!

[p123]

You don't think there was any progress made in the 5 years from the 23rd Budokai to Raditz arrival?

[dbgtFO]

You don't think there was any progress made in the 5 years from the 23rd Budokai to Raditz arrival?

I do...
We're not talking about huge power ups though, because it really isn't implied or stated at all. The only thing that is implied however is that:

23rd Tenkaichi Budokai.
Tenshinhan =< Goku(weights)

Arrival of Raditz.
250 <<< Goku(weights).

So my explanation is that Goku kept on using the same weights, but since he was already used to them beforehand, his power didn't increase like it used to back when training with Mr. Popo, so only his weighted self is much stronger than at the 23rd TB.

[p123]

I don't know. I think decent progress occurs in every segment..

I think a 75% gap is suitable for each scenario...

5 years between 23rd Budokai and Raditz

7 year gap between Cell and Buu

10 year gap End of Z


For Base Goku...

[Piccolo Daimao]

I thought that I would make an experimental list like uzuni, ignoring all stated battle powers but the farmer's 5.

Search for the Dragon Balls

Son Gokû: 15
Ôzaru: 150
I would've made him 10 like the Daizenshuu, but that wouldn't leave me enough space for the "normal" warriors, such as the Red Ribbon Army soldiers. So, at triple the power of an ordinary person, he's strong enough to repel a gun bullet and knock Yamcha around with the Janken, even when he's hungry. He knocks out Yamcha's tooth when he's got a full stomach. As stated by Vegeta, a Saiyan's battle power becomes x10 greater as an Ôzaru.

Yamcha: 13
His Roga Fu-Fu Ken damaged Goku and he could hold his own against him when he had a full stomach, but he was still at a loss. However, later at the 21st TB, Goku says that when he fought him, he was so fast he couldn't see, and that he's "super-duper strong".

Kuririn: 10
Comparing his and Yamcha's performances against Goku, Yamcha was able to hold his own against Goku, while Kuririn was quickly beaten up and forced to give up.

21st Tenka’ichi Budôkai

Son Gokû: 45
Ôzaru: 450
He's even with Kame-sennin, as their Kamehamehas cancelled each other's out.

Kame-sennin: 45
Full power: 90
He's even with Goku, as their Kamehamehas cancelled each other's out, and he only won because his kick digging deeper during their clash, due to his longer legs.

Kuririn: 30
He manages to keep up with his master's speed, but he's still outmatched. Even Kuririn admits that, "in terms of actual ability, [Jackie Chun] is overwhelmingly superior" and that he'll "obviously lose if [he] fights him head-to-head".

Yamcha: 25
Comparing his and Yamcha's performances against Kame-sennin, Yamcha is effortlessly blown out of bounds by a blast of wind, while Kuririn manages to keep up with his mentor's speed.

Namu: 28
He holds his own against Goku, but it's clear who the superior fighter is in their match. Goku takes Namu's Tenku-Pekeji-Ken head-on, but is able to stand back up after the blow. After their match, Namu himself admits that it was a "total loss".

Red Ribbon Army

Son Gokû: 45
Karin’s training: 225
As said by Kuririn during his fight with General Blue, Goku has become even stronger than he was at the Tenka’ichi Budôkai, from fighting at the tournament and battling the Red Ribbon Army (however, I didn't change his BP from the tournament because it was a negligible increase not worth noting). After Karin's training, his power was said to have become "many times greater", and now he's strong enough to overpower Tao Pai Pai.

Kuririn: 30

General Blue: 37
Strong enough to beat up Kuririn without his paralysis, but is schooled by Goku. He only uses his paralysis against Kuririn because he gets annoyed that, after surprising him with his Zanzôken, he kicked his "beautiful face" hard enough to make him bleed.

Android #8: 60
Goku says that #8's punch to White that sent him off into the mountains was "a lot more incredible than [his own]".

Arale: 70
Arale's "about as fast as [Goku's] Kinto'un" and sends Blue very far away (in fact, near pyramids), which impresses Goku, and after Arale tells Goku about her friends, Goku says that there are many people stronger than him in the world, so he has to train more.

Tao Pai Pai: 180
The number one assassin in the world, he kills Blue with his tongue alone, tanks Goku's Kamehameha and almost kills Goku with his Dodonpa. But when Goku's powered up by his training under Karin, even his Dodonpa and ultimate combo doesn't defeat him.

Karin: 360
In the Piccolo Daimao arc, Karin says that Goku had "almost already acquired enough power to surpass even [him]".

Uranai Baba

Son Goku: 225

Son Gohan: 220
Despite the fact that they fight an even battle, Gohan says that he was "no match" for Goku.

Kuririn: 30

Yamcha: 25

Akkuman: 100
Mummy-kun: 85
Suke-san: 20
Dracula Man: 16
Akkuman was a master who'd won the Tenka'ichi Budôkai in the past, but Goku had powered up so much that he made him seem like nothing special to Kuririn, and he knocks him out with one hit. Mummy-kun was considered "incredibly fast" and "ferociously good" by Roshi, who said that, "up until now, Goku probably wouldn't have have been able to win". Roshi's further surprised when Goku takes a full-on, unguarded assault without damage, then defeats Mummy-kun with a single blow. Uranai Baba said that her champions got progressively stronger, and Yamcha easily defeated Suke-san, who was stronger than Dracula Man, which must mean (if it wasn't evident already) that Dracula Man's much weaker than Kuririn, and his win was only due to the fact that he sucked Kuririn's blood.

22nd Tenka’ichi Budôkai

Son Goku: 350

Tenshinhan: 350
Tenshinhan says that Goku deserves the prize money, because it was just luck that he won, and by actual ability, he lost.

Kame-sennin: 330
Tenshinhan says that Kame-sennin's power goes above even Tsuru-sennin. Kame-sennin admits that he probably would've lost if they had continued fighting, but as Tenshinhan said at the end of their battle, he still hadn't put out his full power. Although neither had Tenshinhan, judging by the fact that he mentions that Kame-sennin's not dead because he would be disqualified. But he planned to kill Goku in their match.

Tsuru-sennin: 160

Kuririn: 140

Yamcha: 130
Kuririn says that Yamcha was "about as good as [him]".

Chaozu: 115
Kuririn was pushing Chaozu back in their battle, and he only had a really tough fight against him because of his Bukujutsu, Dodonpa and paralysis.

King Chapa: 100
An incredible master who, when he last participated, won the entire tournament without once being struck by an opponent. Kame-sennin said that Goku had found himself in a sticky match.

Panput: 40
He was a "super gifted grappler", but nothing special in Goku and Kuririn's eyes.

Piccolo Daimaô

Son Goku: 350
Super God Water: 3,500
Initially, he was beaten black and blue at Daimao at less than half his power, but after drinking the Super God Water, his hidden power is drawn out. He kills Drum in one hit, astounding Tenshinhan (who almost had his heart ripped out by him), and is even with Piccolo Daimao, even pushing back him.

Yajirobe: 340
Goku claimed that he'd never met anyone so resilient, which must mean that Yajirobe's the most durable warrior he's ever fought (since he can't be any stronger than Tenshinhan - he doesn't fight as evenly with Goku as Tenshinhan did).

Tambourine: 300
Killed Kuririn, killed by Goku. He's supposed to be "several times stronger" than Cymbal, but since I believe Cymbal's stronger than Kuririn (since the whole point of Yajirobe killing Cymbal was to make the new kid on the block seem that more amazing), that can't work, as that would make Kuririn and Yamcha more than a third of Goku and Tenshinhan's power, and considering Kuririn and Yamcha's respective fights against the former and latter, I don't think that can work.

Cymbal: 240
Stronger than Kuririn, since Yajirobe killing Cymbal was supposed to make Yajirobe seem even more amazing, which wouldn't work if Cymbal was much weaker.

Piccolo Daimao: 1,000
Youth restored: 3,500
He beats up Goku with less than half his power, and when his youth is restored, his power becomes greater. He fights evenly with Goku, but has to resort to dirty fighting when he realizes he can't beat him.

Tenshinhan: 350
He almost has his heart ripped out by Drum, who was there to make Goku seem that more amazing when he kills him in one shot.

Drum: 1,500
Much stronger than Tenshinhan and considerably stronger than old Piccolo Daimao, since he was there to make Goku seem that more amazing when he kills him in one shot.

Mr. Popo: 5,000
He outclasses Goku in everything.

God: 8,000
Mr. Popo says that God is "far, far more incredible" than himself. God flicks back Goku with his finger.

23rd Tenka’ichi Budôkai

Son Goku: 4,000
Without weights: 10,000
Wearing his weights, he was about even with Tenshinhan, but he wasn't breathing hard while Tenshinhan was. He had more stamina than Tenshinhan, but Tenshinhan had the advantage in speed. But when Goku removes his weights, he takes Tenshinhan's belt without him even noticing, and later fights Piccolo on even ground, having a slight advantage.

Piccolo: 9,800
God says that the gap between their powers was too big, and Piccolo says that he's leveled up so much that he's now "many times stronger" than before.

Tenshinhan: 3,500
Tenshinhan says that three years ago, Goku's strength was "all but perfect", and he's amazed that he managed to go "so far above even that". However, while Goku has more stamina, Tenshinhan has the advantage in speed. Until, that is, Goku removes his weights.

Kuririn: 800
He impressed Piccolo, making him think that he wouldn't be able to take over the world so easily. But later, Piccolo says that if they all ganged up on him, they'd still be no match.

Yamcha: 675
He's treated like a baby by God, but God commended his strength based on his movements, and said that if he trained some more, he'd catch up to him.

God: 8,000
Tenshinhan says that Piccolo and God "far surpass any level ordinarily concievable". God says that the gap between his and Piccolo's powers was too big.

Cyborg Tao Pai Pai: 900
Tao Pai Pai claims that he's managed to obtain "many times the power [he] had before", but everyone are shocked at Tenshinhan's easy defeat of Tao Pai Pai. Yamcha said that he "give up" and Kuririn said that "maybe he's a little too strong".

Chi-Chi: 25
Kame-sennin called Chi-Chi a master, and that her style resembled his own Kame-sen School. However, Chi-Chi didn't think that Goku could defeat her and didn't think he'd get this strong, suggesting that she's at least stronger than Goku at the beginning of the series, having been trained by Gyu-maô. But she's still far outmatched by everyone at the tournament, since she couldn't see Goku and Tenshinhan's movements that Kuririn and Yamcha could.

[CatouttaHell]

Those are some insanely high power levels, Piccolo Daimao. Although it works better IMO than the stated ones where someone who is just 52x stronger than a normal human can effortlessly destroy a city and create an explosion rivaling/exceeding a nuclear blast.

I would put Tenshinhan at least at 3,850 though because he stated Goku improved in everything but speed and had an advantage over him until he took his weights off.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Those are some insanely high power levels, Piccolo Daimao. Although it works better IMO than the stated ones where someone who is just 52x stronger than a normal human can effortlessly destroy a city and create an explosion rivaling/exceeding a nuclear blast.

I would put Tenshinhan at least at 3,850 though because he stated Goku improved in everything but speed and had an advantage over him until he took his weights off.

Yeah, I know. I was following uzuni's example of making an experimental list ignoring all stated battle powers but the farmer's 5, so there were no limits. It was pretty much seeing how I could fit in various "many times greater" and Piccolo Daimao's "half-power" line into a list.

But I put Tenshinhan at 3,500 because I don't believe he had quite surpassed Piccolo Daimao and Super God Water Goku's powers yet, based on the fact that he says that three years ago, Goku's power was "all but perfect" and he's amazed that he managed to go "so far above even that". It sounds like Tenshinhan saw Goku's power three years ago as still a big deal and superior to himself, and he's amazed that he's managed to surpass that by such a huge amount. But based on his performance against Goku, I put him at equal to Goku's power three years ago. While Goku had more stamina, Tenshinhan had the advantage in speed., until Goku removed his weights.

[JulieYBM]

I return!


Dragon Ball Arc:

Son Gokû (Base: 10; Ôzaru: 100): Daizenshû numbers.
Yamcha (8): A wee bit weaker than Gokû, but still impressive!
Muten Rôshi (100): Ôzaru Gokû beat up Pilaf’s castle pretty bad. If he could channel that power as a ki wave, I think it’d be pretty much as strong as Maximum power Rôshi.
Gyûmaô (97): An official number.

Twenty-First Tenka'ichi Budôkai Arc:

Son Gokû (Base: 95; Ôzaru: 950): Gokû was almost able to beat the great Muten Rôshi!
Kuririn (80): A bit weaker than Gokû. It also gives Rôshi some wiggle room to up his game for his fight with Gokû.
Yamcha (80): About as strong as Kuririn. It could probably be lower, considering he didn’t train under Muten Rôshi, but I’m kind.
Muten Rôshi (100): I’m giving him a bit of wiggle room to be stronger than Gokû. Who knows what would have happened if he had fought to kill?
Giran (50): Strong, but no match for Son when he gives it his all.
Namu (85): A strong foe for Gokû!
LanFan (6): One point for pichi-pichi-ness.

Red Ribbon Army Arc:

Son Gokû (Pre-Karin: 100; Post-Karin: 130): Gokû’s strength was growing even before he had faced Tao Pai Pai the first time. Maybe it’s his Saiyan blood?
Kuririn (80-85): Only a few days have passed since the Tenka’ichi, but maybe he had redoubled his efforts under the Turtle Hermit?
Yamcha (80-85): He probably began to train after the tournament, too. It’s negligible.
Artificial Human #8 (110): He seemed to possibly be stronger than Gokû?!
Colonel Silver (50): He was probably strong, but we all know how many chapters he lasted (two, that is).
General White (50): He took a few hits, but Gokû was probably exhausted at that point.
General Blue (100): He was a tough dude.
Tao Pai Pai (115): He was a fair bit stronger than Gokû in their first encounter, but seemed to really struggle in their next.
Karin-sama (190): This is a number from the Daizenshû. I agree with it.
Bora (95): He was a bit quicker to be defeated by Tao Pai Pai than Gokû was.
Dracula Man (70): He didn’t seem too much stronger than Kuririn, if at all. He won because of that blood-sucking ability.
Mira-kun (100): He really beat the crap out of Yamcha.
Suke-san (50): He seemed to give up pretty quick when Yamcha could finally see where to hit.
Akkuman (115): Gokû seemed to have no more trouble than he did against Tao Pai Pai in their rematch.
Grandpa Son Gohan (130-140): Gohan seemed to be a bit stronger than Gokû, but who knows how the fight might’ve turned out had it continued on?!

Twenty-Second Tenka'ichi Budôkai Arc:

Son Gokû (180): An official Daizenshû number.
Kuririn (120): Kuririn seems to have a pretty good lead in strength over Chaozu when they fight. While training with Yamcha they probably pushed each other pretty far in their training.
Yamcha (120): He put up a decent fight with Tenshinhan, although in the end Tenshinhan still had a lot of strength in reserve. I think he and Kuririn would be neck-and-neck due to training together.
Muten Rôshi (139): An official number. I see no reason to dispute.
Tenshinhan (180): An official number.
Chaozu (84): An official number. Once Kuririn got in a good hit he took Chaozu down quickly.
Crane Hermit (120): An official number.
Panputto (50): Gokû took him out easily, so he probably wasn’t even in Chaozu’s league.
Chapa-ô (100): He’d be truly fearsome…against somebody else.

Piccolo Daimaô Arc:

Son Gokû (Pre-Karin: 185; Post-Karin: 260): For pre-Karin I assume he’d have gotten stronger after fighting a strong foe and recovering from great injuries. Post-Karin is an official number.
Piccolo Daimaô (Old: 200; Young: 260): As an old man Piccolo would be just strong enough to do some real damage to Gokû. His number as a young man if an official number.
Tambourine (150): Too strong for a Gokû who was weakened from fighting in the Tenka’ichi Budôkai.
Cymbal (140): It’s implied Tambourine is a bit stronger than Cymbal.
Drum (195): Tenshinhan can’t really do much damage to him, while the powered-up Gokû takes him out quite easily.
Tenshinhan (185): He probably got some good experience fighting Gokû, not to mention the ki-based training he underwent learning the Mafûba.
Muten Rôshi (Mafûba: 180): A number from an official source. I have to assume the Mafûba brought out his power to its absolute maximum.
Yajirobe (160): He was pretty tough, easily able to defeat Cymbal! He also seemed pretty confident he could beat Tambourine.
Karin-sama (190): Straight from the Daizenshû.
Mr. Popo (270): Weekly JUMP listed him as 1,030 during the Saiyan arc. I think, considering how he claims God is stronger than him and he was somewhat stronger than Gokû, this number if good for him before he gets a chance to train with Gokû and in the Saiyan arc Yamcha’s team.
God (300): Stronger than Daimaô, as he is stated in the series. Later on he is 220 during the Saiyan arc, as per Weekly JUMP.

Twenty-Third Tenka'ichi Budôkai Arc:

Son Gokû (Training Weights: 260; Full Power: 910) 910 is listed for Gokû in Weekly JUMP. I assume this is when Gokû brings his ki out to its maximum with the Chô Kamehame-Ha. With weights on, Tenshinhan comments that Gokû hasn’t really changed much since ‘back then’.
Ma Junior (900): Just a little bit weaker than the full amount of strength that Gokû can put out. This would explain why Gokû won their beam struggle.
Tenshinhan (200-270): The Saiyan arc number listed in the comic says that Tenshinhan was at 250 before training under God. I’m going to assume that was him at rest, though, just like how Gokû (un-weighted) was 416 while just standing still. This way, Tenshinhan can be around the same strength as Gokû against Daimaô.
Kuririn (190): In the Saiyan arc (before training under God) he is listed as 206. I think 190 is an appropriate enough number for him to max out.
Yamcha (185): Just a little bit under Kuririn. In the Saiyan arc (before training under God) he is listed as 177, which I assume was at rest.
God/Shen (280): Piccolo says that God neglected his training and had grown weaker.
Cyborg Tao Pai Pai (210): An official number.
Chichi (130): An official number.

[Rocketman]

Dragon Ball Arc:
Yamcha (8): A wee bit weaker than Gokû, but still impressive!

Twenty-First Tenka'ichi Budôkai Arc:
Yamcha (80): About as strong as Kuririn. It could probably be lower, considering he didn’t train under Muten Rôshi, but I’m kind.

I don't see this happening at all. Yamcha wasn't training, and even if he was, Roshi schools him far easier than he does Krillin.

[p123]

Piccolo , that's a phenomenal list. I have been struggling with the Early DB, and I really like how you work without influences. I would really like to see your work with the manga logic but without outside influences... The escalation is too fast, and I know you did it without limits, but I think we can figure this thing out...I'm going to work off of your list... We have to go easy on the boosts...


Goku is stated to have grown many times greater really? That could be trouble. What quotes am I missing. Isn't there one with Piccolo only using half power?

[Piccolo Daimao]

Piccolo , that's a phenomenal list. I have been struggling with the Early DB, and I really like how you work without influences. I would really like to see your work with the manga logic but without outside influences... The escalation is too fast, and I know you did it without limits, but I think we can figure this thing out...I'm going to work off of your list... We have to go easy on the boosts...


Goku is stated to have grown many times greater really? That could be trouble. What quotes am I missing. Isn't there one with Piccolo only using half power?

Thanks. I know that the escalation was perhaps too fast, but as I aforementioned, it was just an experimental list that was taking in all the "many times greater" and "half-power" statements literally (apart from the Tambourine-Cymbal one, since it doesn't work with my opinion) and trying to make them fit into a list. I have a normal list which I'll probably post up sometime, but it doesn't take into account those specific statements, since, obviously, they can't work with the stated battle powers and Toriyama didn't think about them when he introduced the concept of battle powers.

And yeah, during his first battle against Goku, Piccolo says that he's not even putting out half of his power.

Chapter: 143, P12.3
Piccolo: “Hohhohhoh…You have no chance of winning, no matter how you struggle, and you can’t run away either. It seems all that’s left for you is the road to death. I’m still not even putting out half of my power. Too bad for you…so then, what will you do?”