16:9 vs 4:3

[gokufss]

Whats is 16:9 vs 4:3. are they the same?

[Namekjin]

No they aren't. The 16:9 version of Dragon Ball Kai has been cropped (pan and scan crop) from it's 4:3 footage. (Japan DVDs)
While the Japan Blu-rays and American Kai DVDs and Blu-rays have the original uncropped 4:3 footage.

[Ultimate_DB_Fan]

16:9 gives you a more theatrical experience, while also letting you see more on both sides of your screen.

4:3 is pretty much the original, standard way in which things used to be shown. However, this presentation is outdated and not really done anymore. With that said, shows like Bleach and Naruto suffer a bit because of staying in said format.

The fact that Kai wasn't released in 16:9 here in North America is a huge loss because it could've catered to even more people who prefer to watch things by today's standards.

God forbid it can't be done with Dragon Ball Z, though, 'cause another ridiculous uproar would happen again. Things like "I can't see the top of Goku's hair" and other blasphemous remarks would ensue.

[gokufss]

do you lose picture in 16:9

[Metalwario64]

16:9 gives you a more theatrical experience, while also letting you see more on both sides of your screen.

4:3 is pretty much the original, standard way in which things used to be shown. However, this presentation is outdated and not really done anymore. With that said, shows like Bleach and Naruto suffer a bit because of staying in said format.

The fact that Kai wasn't released in 16:9 here in North America is a huge loss because it could've catered to even more people who prefer to watch things by today's standards.

God forbid it can't be done with Dragon Ball Z, though, 'cause another ridiculous uproar would happen again. Things like "I can't see the top of Goku's hair" and other blasphemous remarks would ensue.

Ugh, here we go again...

Anyway, in basic terms, 4:3 is the traditional "square" shaped "full-screen" aspect ratio, and 16:9 is the now standard widescreen aspect ratio.

Dragon Ball was animated in 4:3, so to get it into 16:9 they had to crop the footage. FUNimation destructively did so with the Z season sets by setting the cropping to the center at all times, then running it through the whole episode, leaving many important details and framing elements removed or obscured, and even reached the point of having entire heads of characters cut off at times, whereas Kai was done with select "pan and scan" framing, which is a step up, but you still lose significant vertical framing, which goes against the original intention, and still messes with the overall visual balance of the framing at times.

A handful of Kai's "reanimated" frames were extended horizontally for widescreen though, but I can only think of a few at the top of my head.

do you lose picture in 16:9

Yes, you lose, I believe 20% of the vertical picture, and gain I think 5% on the sides, which was never intended to be viewed anyway.

[Namekjin]

do you lose picture in 16:9

If you stretch the footage, no. If you crop the footage, yes.

[Mewzard]

This is an interesting subject, as my Film Studies teacher hated when 16:9 films were pan and scanned to 4:3 due to the loss of picture. This is going the opposite way, but still follows what should be a universal law in cinema: Always view the film in it's intended aspect ratio, even if it gives you black bars. I've seen some ridiculous cuts when comparing the original to edited formats. Lots of background and even portions of characters bodies can be lost.

So, for Dragon Ball, stick with it's native aspect ratio. That would be 4:3 for the episodes and 16:9 for the movies, unless I'm mistaken (and I might be on the movies).

[ohaimynameiserik]

This is an interesting subject, as my Film Studies teacher hated when 16:9 films were pan and scanned to 4:3 due to the loss of picture. This is going the opposite way, but still follows what should be a universal law in cinema: Always view the film in it's intended aspect ratio, even if it gives you black bars. I've seen some ridiculous cuts when comparing the original to edited formats. Lots of background and even portions of characters bodies can be lost.

So, for Dragon Ball, stick with it's native aspect ratio. That would be 4:3 for the episodes and 16:9 for the movies, unless I'm mistaken (and I might be on the movies).

Exactly how I was. I wanted to smack people who bought "Full Screen" DVDs. And now they've upgraded to 16:9 TVs. Sucks for them.

And you're sort of right with the movies. They were animated in 4:3 but were always going to be seen in 16:9. Everything that should be seen by the viewer is towards the center of the screen.

The bottom line is this, Dragon Ball Kai is animated in 4:3. If you view the cropped 16:9 version, you lose much more of the picture than you would gain.

[Gaffer Tape]

do you lose picture in 16:9

Assuming you might be asking in a general sense and not just in regards to Dragon Ball Kai, it should be noted very strongly that neither 4:3 nor 16:9 is inherently better than the other. They're just different shapes in which to make film. Just like if you have paintings or pictures they'll most likely be in different sized/different proportioned frames. Aspect ratios matter strictly on a case-by-case basis. If something was originally made in 4:3, then trying to put it in 16:9 is bad, because you'll be forced to chop off parts of the picture to fit it in that "frame." And vice versa.

[Ashura]

Kai's a weird case, where it aired in Japan in 16:9 but only because the TV station told them they had to. It was apparently intended to be shown in 4:3, which is why the Bluray and US releases came out that way.

If the 4:3 thing never came up or came out, and 16:9 was what they intended with this new production, I doubt people would be complaining or debating which is better because there would be nothing to debate.

[Gaffer Tape]

Well, there would be something to debate because the source footage (ie. Dragon Ball Z) is and always has been natively 4:3.

[Ashura]

Well, there would be something to debate because the source footage (ie. Dragon Ball Z) is and always has been natively 4:3.

Kai isn't Dragonball Z, though. It's a separate entity with a new direction, pacing, voices, on and on. Just because it's rebuilt using older animation doesn't mean the choice couldn'tve have been made to go completely 16:9 and rework things accordingly. I'm personally glad it's 4:3 on home video, but if they chose 16:9 all around I would see any complaining as fanboy whining. I guess people could (and do!) have another opinion, but that's how I feel anyway.

It's sort of like Terminator 2. The source footage for that was shot open-matte, but there's no mistaking that movie is intended to be shown cropped to widescreen even though the 4:3 VHS has more picture on the top and bottom. (Like so: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/e ... ration.jpg) Then there's the reverse with Buffy the Vampire Slayer; When they opened up the matte for that on the UK DVDs to 16:9, all sorts of effects wires and things were suddenly visible.

[Adamant]

Kai isn't Dragonball Z, though. It's a separate entity with a new direction, pacing, voices, on and on. Just because it's rebuilt using older animation doesn't mean the choice couldn'tve have been made to go completely 16:9 and rework things accordingly.

Separate entity with "a new direction, pacing and voices", yes, but it still, for the most part, uses video originally animated to be viewed in 4:3. Slapping a new soundtrack on top doesn't magically transform it into video that "looks just as good or even better if we chop off the top and bottom a bit".

The fact that Kai wasn't released in 16:9 here in North America is a huge loss because it could've catered to even more people who prefer to watch things by today's standards.

If you want to fuck with your footage, there's a handy "zoom" button on your remote that does that for you, without you having to tell the production company to ruin the footage permanently for everyone for the sake of your own lazy ass.

[piccolo-san785]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspect_rat ... 3_standard

[Gaffer Tape]

Well, there would be something to debate because the source footage (ie. Dragon Ball Z) is and always has been natively 4:3.

Kai isn't Dragonball Z, though. It's a separate entity with a new direction, pacing, voices, on and on. Just because it's rebuilt using older animation doesn't mean the choice couldn'tve have been made to go completely 16:9 and rework things accordingly. I'm personally glad it's 4:3 on home video, but if they chose 16:9 all around I would see any complaining as fanboy whining. I guess people could (and do!) have another opinion, but that's how I feel anyway.

Believe me, I feel the same way. But most people don't seem to. I'm just saying that there would still definitely be a debate with a lot of people (and I could easily see why) just because, although it's a separate entity, it's sourcing DBZ.

[Ashura]

Believe me, I feel the same way. But most people don't seem to. I'm just saying that there would still definitely be a debate with a lot of people (and I could easily see why) just because, although it's a separate entity, it's sourcing DBZ.

I guess it's the same debate as the movies. Everyone won't be happy until they're released both ways in the same release, much like Sony did with the Transformers the Movie DVD.

Here's a question: For the 'reanimated' shots that are wider in widescreen, are the full screen version, are these shots cut off or is there more footage on the top and bottom? (IE: They drew new stuff above and below for the full screen version.)

[Puto]

IIRC most reanimated shots AREN'T extended. The few that are usually got extended downwards too, I believe.

[KaiserNeko]

16:9 gives you a more theatrical experience, while also letting you see more on both sides of your screen.

A more "theatrical experience" may technically be accurate, but the cropping of Z gave you 5% of what was NEVER meant to be seen and took away 20% of what WAS meant to.

4:3 is pretty much the original, standard way in which things used to be shown. However, this presentation is outdated and not really done anymore. With that said, shows like Bleach and Naruto suffer a bit because of staying in said format.

One Piece, Bleach, and Naruto shifted to 16:9 YEARS ago. I don't understand what you're trying to say here.

The fact that Kai wasn't released in 16:9 here in North America is a huge loss because it could've catered to even more people who prefer to watch things by today's standards.

God forbid it can't be done with Dragon Ball Z, though, 'cause another ridiculous uproar would happen again. Things like "I can't see the top of Goku's hair" and other blasphemous remarks would ensue

Loss of footage from the top and bottom has been more of a problem that just losing hair. I don't have the shots on hand, but there were many instances that hindered on the scene being 4:3 that were hurt by cropping.

Lastly, good riddance to the wide-screen version of Kai. The only reason it exists is because the Japanese changed their programming standards. The show was animated in 4:3. If you can't deal with it not being presented in a "cinematic" manner, that's unfortunately too bad for you. It was never meant to be and altering the footage in a -negative manner- shouldn't be the answer to that.

[TheGreatness25]

Of course Kai was "made" in full screen... because they used the exact same footage as in Z, which was full screen. The IDEAL way they could have made Kai wide screen was to just add enough footage to the sides to compensate for the wide screen 16:9 ratio without losing any detail on the top or bottom. But in an ideal world, there wouldn't be a need for Kai in the first place because DBZ wouldn't have so much crap thrown into it and the dub wouldn't be so horrendous.

[gokufss]

Is all hd tv 16:9?