Where would the Artificial Human arc have gone?

[knight007]

I'm not sure where the arc would have gone, but I really don't think 19/20 had the chops for being the main baddies. I also don't think 17/18 would've been great in that role either. Cell really brought everything together.

[Fin]

I always wondered where Toriyama was going with the whole "Android #20 denies that he's Dr Gero" plot point.



Anyway, I would have really liked it if Cell was written as a new body for Gero himself. It always bugged me that after introducing the story as the Red Ribbon Army getting revenge on Goku the only villain who actually gave a damn about avenging them was killed off almost immediately.

[Kingdom Heartless]

The reason I don't think they would have worked as villains is that they would have been revealed too soon. If they show up and get into the action straight away, it limits the story.

Like, the Saiyan saga would not have worked if it were just Vegeta and Nappa... you needed Raditz to warm up the story.

[Michsi]

The reason I don't think they would have worked as villains is that they would have been revealed too soon. If they show up and get into the action straight away, it limits the story.

Like, the Saiyan saga would not have worked if it were just Vegeta and Nappa... you needed Raditz to warm up the story.

Oh , that is actually a very good point. Was there ever a main villain that was introduced and engaged in battle from the very beginning of his arc?

[Lord Exor]

The reason I don't think they would have worked as villains is that they would have been revealed too soon. If they show up and get into the action straight away, it limits the story.

Like, the Saiyan saga would not have worked if it were just Vegeta and Nappa... you needed Raditz to warm up the story.

Oh , that is actually a very good point. Was there ever a main villain that was introduced and engaged in battle from the very beginning of his arc?

Cell. He engaged Piccolo as soon as he was introduced. Same with Buu.

[Michsi]

Cell. He engaged Piccolo as soon as he was introduced. Same with Buu.

I view the Android portion and the Cell portion as one arc, so for me 19, 20,18 17 were all "warm-ups" for Cell.
The same with Buu. Dabura, all those minions from Babidi's ship and even the Majin vs. Vegeta fight are "warm-up" fights IMO.
For me DBZ is split like this: Saiyan arc, Freeza arc, Cell Arc, Buu Arc.
I know they are some people who split them into more pieces but 4 arcs make most sense to me.

[Gaffer Tape]

Piccolo Daimao was introduced almost immediately in his arc and carried the villainy all the way through. The same could be said for Freeza. Although he wasn't actually fought until the end, he was still introduced at the beginning and very clearly shown to be the head honcho at that point.

[Michsi]

Piccolo Daimao was introduced almost immediately in his arc and carried the villainy all the way through. The same could be said for Freeza. Although he wasn't actually fought until the end, he was still introduced at the beginning and very clearly shown to be the head honcho at that point.

But neither were engaged in battle from the beginning. In both cases the "underling fights" still happened.

[Gaffer Tape]

Yes, but in terms of the Freeza arc, the goal of our heroes was to avoid fighting, so of course they didn't engage Freeza in combat. It took Gohan and Kuririn nearly three volumes before they really became actively involved in what was going on. It doesn't change the fact that, like #19 and #20, Freeza was presented as the immediate threat from the beginning.

[roidrage]

Yes, but in terms of the Freeza arc, the goal of our heroes was to avoid fighting, so of course they didn't engage Freeza in combat. It took Gohan and Kuririn nearly three volumes before they really became actively involved in what was going on. It doesn't change the fact that, like #19 and #20, Freeza was presented as the immediate threat from the beginning.

Well, that's not how it ended. I realize that's what Toriyama Akira probably had in mind until his editor had him change it, but in the final cut Cell is clearly the big villain of the arc, whereas #19 and #20 are killed off early on. I agree, I think it's somewhat pointless to create all these multiple sagas when in the end, they're all part of larger story arcs.

[Michsi]

Yes, but in terms of the Freeza arc, the goal of our heroes was to avoid fighting, so of course they didn't engage Freeza in combat. It took Gohan and Kuririn nearly three volumes before they really became actively involved in what was going on. It doesn't change the fact that, like #19 and #20, Freeza was presented as the immediate threat from the beginning.

That's from an in-universe perspective. I was discussing the author's handeling of the arc. I doubt readers thought there wasn't going to be any fighting in that arc. And Vegeta's fights are also "warm up fights" since it's basically taking on the underlings of the arc's big bad, it doesn't have to be just the good guys vs. the bad guys.
It follows a similar trend to that of the Piccolo Daimao arc.

[Gaffer Tape]

If you know me at all, you know I almost never debate from an "in-universe" perspective, and this was no exception.

I'm just saying there's no way to know how #19 and #20 would have gone had they actually been the big bad. Would they have been the only enemies? Would they have fought very long or even at all during their first encounter? Who knows? All I'm saying is that it's not the first time the big bads of an arc have been introduced and clearly defined as such (just like Piccolo and just like Freeza) at the very beginning, regardless of whether they fight immediately or not.

[Michsi]

If you know me at all, you know I almost never debate from an "in-universe" perspective, and this was no exception.

I'm just saying there's no way to know how #19 and #20 would have gone had they actually been the big bad. Would they have been the only enemies? Would they have fought very long or even at all during their first encounter? Who knows? All I'm saying is that it's not the first time the big bads of an arc have been introduced and clearly defined as such (just like Piccolo and just like Freeza) at the very beginning, regardless of whether they fight immediately or not.

I understand what you are trying to say. I was commenting what it was that to me at least felt different with the introduction of the supposedly big bads here and it was because it broke away from the usual trend that Toriyama used.
Not that it would've been that jarring and maybe it would've been better if he had done things differently this time. Unfortunately, we will never know.

And yeah, sometimes unavoidable to separate the in-universe perspective from the out-of-universe one.
But take for instance this example: In-universe - Goku and the others didn't want to use the dragon balls because they wanted to fight these cyborgs and because " he hasn't done anything yet" making them all unreasnable jerks.
out -universe - the author had to find a way around the dragon balls since the could have easily resolved the entire issue.

In certain case I think it's better to view them from seperate perspectives.

[Ringworm128]

Just a few Ideas. Idea #1. Vegeta and Piccolo would have gotten beaten by Gero. Piccolo would have been seriously injured by Gero's Eye Beam (Iv never read the Manga version of the Artificial Human arc so I don't know if its filler or not). And Vegeta would have been beaten by Gero. It would then have Gero absorbing peoples energy (much like Cell) to make him even stronger. Vegeta and Trunks would have then gone into the Room of Spirit and Time to Train. Thats all Iv got (so far) Idea #2. #17 #18 and #16 would have been loyal to Gero. #17 and #18 would have beaten the Z warriors to by Gero some time to Repair himself and then Upgrade himself/Absorb more energy etc.