Dragonball Stuff You've Just Realized

[roidrage]

And so they would come back to life in a desolate crater. Their homes, their businesses, all their worldly possessions, everything they ever worked for in their lives would be gone. All of which could have been avoided if the people to whom Trunks gave his earth-shattering future revelations to hadn't been, "Oooooooooh! I's gonna get in strong fights and prove my strength, lolz!"

But, yes, I agree that Kuririn's wish was pretty damned stupid and useless.

That's true, but the Namekians who were revived lost their homes, as did some of King Piccolo's vicitms. If there was no reason to be concerned about that in those cases, there's no reason to be concerned about it now. The way it works goes like "They're alive again, everything's fine." We're not supposed to worry about what happens afterward, so I don't.

And Goku's Goku, even when lives hang in the balance.

[Gaffer Tape]

That's true, but the Namekians who were revived lost their homes, as did some of King Piccolo's vicitms. If there was no reason to be concerned about that in those cases, there's no reason to be concerned about it now. The way it works goes like "They're alive again, everything's fine." We're not supposed to worry about what happens afterward, so I don't.

And Goku's Goku, even when lives hang in the balance.

No, it's not the same thing, because in the previous cases, there was nothing they could do about it. They had no prior knowledge of Piccolo or Freeza's attacks. This is a case where they were told years ahead of time what was going to happen, and where the threat was going to be. And yet they took absolutely no precautions in making sure that there wouldn't be any casualties.

[roidrage]

That's true, but the Namekians who were revived lost their homes, as did some of King Piccolo's vicitms. If there was no reason to be concerned about that in those cases, there's no reason to be concerned about it now. The way it works goes like "They're alive again, everything's fine." We're not supposed to worry about what happens afterward, so I don't.

And Goku's Goku, even when lives hang in the balance.

No, it's not the same thing, because in the previous cases, there was nothing they could do about it. They had no prior knowledge of Piccolo or Freeza's attacks. This is a case where they were told years ahead of time what was going to happen, and where the threat was going to be. And yet they took absolutely no precautions in making sure that there wouldn't be any casualties.

They knew when and where, but they had no way of knowing exactly how things would go down. I can't see it playing out any other way, so I don't criticize it. Again, Goku is Goku. Aside from destroying the androids beforehand, what other precautions could they have taken? No one would believe them if they told. And I would say my point still stands, that everything would have been fine simply if they were alive again, becauser it worked for the Namekians and King Piccolo's victims. What I object to is Kuririn's blatant selfishness and stupidity, not the story going the way it did.

[Michsi]

I can sorta excuse Vegeta and Piccolo self centered decision. As Rocketman pointed out, Vegeta was a galatic sociopath with no attachment to earth and thb Piccolo stil had some bad guy vibes about him. And I think it's safe to say that Goku was mostly in character with his decision given he had basically done the same thing when he allower Vegeta to fight. What is harder to understand is Tenshinhan, Yamch and Krillin. Tenshinhan maybe not so much, but Krillin and Yamcha definetely didn't share their enthusiams yet no one backs Bulma up when she tries do the logical thing.
I'd like to think that she gave them all the lecture of their lifetime at some point afterwards.

And it's almost funny, that by the time they were chasing Dr. Gero to stop him fromm reaching his lab,nobody except Vegeta still seemed the eager to fight 17. and 18. Piccolo fared well against 20. yet he seemed set against stopping them from being activated. After he fused with Kami there was almost no trace of that selfishness left, he didn't brag that he had surpassed the SSJs, neither did he care that he had been surpassed afterwards and out of everybody he seemed the most sensible with his decisions.

With Goku, it makes me wonder what would have happened had he been first in the RoSAT? First I thought Cell would have never reached his final stage, but now I wonder..... though it's hard to believe that he would let somebody ( 18 ) get killed for his amusement.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I can sorta excuse Vegeta and Piccolo self centered decision. As Rocketman pointed out, Vegeta was a galatic sociopath with no attachment to earth and thb Piccolo stil had some bad guy vibes about him. And I think it's safe to say that Goku was mostly in character with his decision given he had basically done the same thing when he allower Vegeta to fight. What is harder to understand is Tenshinhan, Yamch and Krillin. Tenshinhan maybe not so much, but Krillin and Yamcha definetely didn't share their enthusiams yet no one backs Bulma up when she tries do the logical thing.
I'd like to think that she gave them all the lecture of their lifetime at some point afterwards.

And it's almost funny, that by the time they were chasing Dr. Gero to stop him fromm reaching his lab,nobody except Vegeta still seemed the eager to fight 17. and 18. Piccolo fared well against 20. yet he seemed set against stopping them from being activated. After he fused with Kami there was almost no trace of that selfishness left, he didn't brag that he had surpassed the SSJs, neither did he care that he had been surpassed afterwards and out of everybody he seemed the most sensible with his decisions.

With Goku, it makes me wonder what would have happened had he been first in the RoSAT? First I thought Cell would have never reached his final stage, but now I wonder..... though it's hard to believe that he would let somebody ( 18 ) get killed for his amusement.

I don't think Piccolo still had some "bad guy vibes" about him. He was officially a good guy after he sacrificed himself for Gohan. To be honest, it was only really Goku, Vegeta and Tenshinhan who voiced their opinion about not killing Dr. Gero before he built the Androids, and Kuririn and co. just went along with it.

And I think no-one but Vegeta were eager to fight #17 and #18 because, again, I think it was only Goku, Vegeta and Tenshinhan who actually cared about fighting the Androids. Goku was out of commission, Vegeta's Vegeta and the rest (including Tenshinhan, who realized he was too weak to do anything) had already realized how much shit they were in.

I think, if Goku and Gohan had been first in the RoSaT, I actually don't think Goku would be that dickheaded to just let Cell go ahead and absorb #18. He was eager for a challenge, but I don't think even he would be that foolish to let Cell goad him into letting him absorb #18. Although, that's just my opinion. Who knows?

[Piccolo Daimao]

I don't know whether this is the same at the 22nd TB, but I've just realized that, at the 23rd TB, Tenshinhan and Chaozu are wearing different symbols to Tsuru-sennin's. I just found this a little strange, considering they were both still wearing the Tsuru-sen School's surcoat.

[Gaffer Tape]

They both just switch to their own, respective kanji, just like Goku eventually does in the Freeza arc. But, yeah, you're right. It's only at the 23rd Budoukai. At the 22nd, they're both wearing the crane kanji.

[Piccolo Daimao]

They both just switch to their own, respective kanji, just like Goku eventually does in the Freeza arc. But, yeah, you're right. It's only at the 23rd Budoukai. At the 22nd, they're both wearing the crane kanji.

Ah, that's what I thought. I was right then.

[Michsi]

I don't think Piccolo still had some "bad guy vibes" about him. He was officially a good guy after he sacrificed himself for Gohan.

Aside from Gohan and Goku (and maybe Krillin a little) he didn't have any attachments either. It's far more understandable with him than with others.

I think, if Goku and Gohan had been first in the RoSaT, I actually don't think Goku would be that dickheaded to just let Cell go ahead and absorb #18. He was eager for a challenge, but I don't think even he would be that foolish to let Cell goad him into letting him absorb #18. Although, that's just my opinion. Who knows?

Well I wasn't thinking he'd go that far either. No matter how selfish we may think he got during the course of the story he'd never do what Vegeta did, not even close. I was thinking more along the lines of him not realising what he doing and Cell taking advantage of that.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I don't think Piccolo still had some "bad guy vibes" about him. He was officially a good guy after he sacrificed himself for Gohan.

Aside from Gohan and Goku (and maybe Krillin a little) he didn't have any attachments either. It's far more understandable with him than with others.

I didn't get any "bad guy vibes" about him, though. But it's not like he or any of the warriors ever had any real attachments to the people other than themselves. He at least cared about the planet. But, again, it was only really Goku, Vegeta and Tenshinhan that voiced their opinion. The rest just went along with it.

I think, if Goku and Gohan had been first in the RoSaT, I actually don't think Goku would be that dickheaded to just let Cell go ahead and absorb #18. He was eager for a challenge, but I don't think even he would be that foolish to let Cell goad him into letting him absorb #18. Although, that's just my opinion. Who knows?

Well I wasn't thinking he'd go that far either. No matter how selfish we may think he got during the course of the story he'd never do what Vegeta did, not even close. I was thinking more along the lines of him not realising what he doing and Cell taking advantage of that.

I think he'd just go ahead and kill Cell without being duped into letting Cell absorb #18.

[Rocketman]

No matter how selfish we may think he got during the course of the story he'd never do what Vegeta did, not even close.

"I'm waiting, Freeza. I want to see your full power. Shut up King Kai. To see the strongest guy in the universe at full power..."

[Kid Buu]

No matter how selfish we may think he got during the course of the story he'd never do what Vegeta did, not even close.

"I'm waiting, Freeza. I want to see your full power. Shut up King Kai. To see the strongest guy in the universe at full power..."

Didn't he let Vegeta lie just because he thought Vegeta was a great fighter or something like that?

And he crushed the potara against Kid Buu.

[Michsi]

No matter how selfish we may think he got during the course of the story he'd never do what Vegeta did, not even close.

"I'm waiting, Freeza. I want to see your full power. Shut up King Kai. To see the strongest guy in the universe at full power..."

It's still not the same as handing over someone's life on a silver platter. He pulls this sorta "I want to fight him" crap troughout the entire story, against Piccolo, against Vegeta, against Cell, against Buu , but I never think he'd get that far as to stand by and watch someone get killed for the sake of a good fight.

But then again there is that scene where Goku looks like he was threatening the Kaioshin when he put himself between him and Vegeta, altough I don't know if he was actually pointing it at Vegeta and implying he was going to fight him no matter what and if the Kaioshin got in the way he wouldn't care. I find him hard to read in the Buu Saga and I don't know if that was intentional or not.

Aside from Gohan and Goku (and maybe Krillin a little) he didn't have any attachments either. It's far more understandable with him than with others.
I didn't get any "bad guy vibes" about him, though. But it's not like he or any of the warriors ever had any real attachments to the people other than themselves. He at least cared about the planet. But, again, it was only really Goku, Vegeta and Tenshinhan that voiced their opinion. The rest just went along with it..

Well I guess "bad guys vibes" doesn't exactly describe what I mean to say correctly, but you get the idea. He wasn't anywhere near his Buu Saga-persona and was still in the "looking for and enjoying a good fight" team. But I think I have the anime version of this scene in mind, where I remember him showing annoyance at Bulma's sugestion. At the same time though, I don't think he would've objected had Goku agreed to Bulma's idea.

[Rocketman]

18 was built to kill him and helped kill everybody in the alternate timeline (and helped beat them down in this one). She's not some random passerby.

[Michsi]

He wouldn't have killed Frieza if he hadn't been forced to and if you can show mercy to someone like that than you can probably forgive anything.
Not to mention that it became clear that these androids were not the "monsters" Trunks spoke about and I think Goku would have picked up on that even before Krillin had be been there.
And I still doubt that he would have deliberatly lend a hand in Cell's transformation even if it didn't mean that a person had to die.

[Cipher]

It's still not the same as handing over someone's life on a silver platter. He pulls this sorta "I want to fight him" crap troughout the entire story, against Piccolo, against Vegeta, against Cell, against Buu , but I never think he'd get that far as to stand by and watch someone get killed for the sake of a good fight.

While I too have a hard time imagining him letting Cell "kill" #18 as Vegeta did, it's not completely unprecedented. He was confident he could win against Freeza and wanted to demoralize him. But it must have occurred to him as he let Piccolo and Vegeta live that, hey, these guys can and probably will kill some more innocent people before I see them again. Oh well, rivalz.

[Michsi]

While I too have a hard time imagining him letting Cell "kill" #18 as Vegeta did, it's not completely unprecedented. He was confident he could win against Freeza and wanted to demoralize him. But it must have occurred to him as he let Piccolo and Vegeta live that, hey, these guys can and probably will kill some more innocent people before I see them again. Oh well, rivalz.

Well, with Piccolo we find out through Gohan that he "wasn't that bad" ,so I'm guessing that also played a part in his decision making, but also I think he was loath to kill/ let get killed someone who was already down.
That deal with letting Vegeta go is a whole other batch on bananas though and it's mostly this part that I had in mind when I thought that Cell might have reached his goal even with him there. I doubt he realized he was putting lives at risk when he spared Vegeta and I think he even regrets it afterwards (at least in the anime ) and something of this nature that I was imagining. Definetly not "Hey, if I hand you that girl over, will you promise to give me really good fight :3"

[Piccolo Daimao]

Aside from Gohan and Goku (and maybe Krillin a little) he didn't have any attachments either. It's far more understandable with him than with others.
I didn't get any "bad guy vibes" about him, though. But it's not like he or any of the warriors ever had any real attachments to the people other than themselves. He at least cared about the planet. But, again, it was only really Goku, Vegeta and Tenshinhan that voiced their opinion. The rest just went along with it..

Well I guess "bad guys vibes" doesn't exactly describe what I mean to say correctly, but you get the idea. He wasn't anywhere near his Buu Saga-persona and was still in the "looking for and enjoying a good fight" team. But I think I have the anime version of this scene in mind, where I remember him showing annoyance at Bulma's sugestion. At the same time though, I don't think he would've objected had Goku agreed to Bulma's idea.

Yeah, I understand what you mean. But, as I aforementioned, it was only really Goku, Vegeta and Tenshinhan that voiced their opinion, and the rest just went along with it. I'm talking about the manga here, btw.

While I too have a hard time imagining him letting Cell "kill" #18 as Vegeta did, it's not completely unprecedented. He was confident he could win against Freeza and wanted to demoralize him. But it must have occurred to him as he let Piccolo and Vegeta live that, hey, these guys can and probably will kill some more innocent people before I see them again. Oh well, rivalz.

Well, with Piccolo we find out through Gohan that he "wasn't that bad" ,so I'm guessing that also played a part in his decision making, but also I think he was loath to kill/ let get killed someone who was already down.
That deal with letting Vegeta go is a whole other batch on bananas though and it's mostly this part that I had in mind when I thought that Cell might have reached his goal even with him there. I doubt he realized he was putting lives at risk when he spared Vegeta and I think he even regrets it afterwards (at least in the anime ) and something of this nature that I was imagining. Definetly not "Hey, if I hand you that girl over, will you promise to give me really good fight :3"

With Piccolo, it was a combination of "If you die, then God dies too" and "I want to fight you again sometime". But because, if Goku killed him, God would die too, I can understand Goku's decision a bit more though (although Goku probably cared more about fighting Piccolo, and they could've sealed up with the Mafuba).

But the Vegeta one was completely selfish of him. The guy was a known murderer and planet-destroyer, had just killed his friends, had beaten the crap out of him, his son and his best friend, but he let him go because he wanted to fight him again. I think, even in the manga, Goku did regret it later when he was talking with Kaio and the others in the spaceship, when he was telling them about Vegeta being on Namek.

But, for some reason, even acknowledging everything that Goku had done, I just don't see him letting Cell dupe him into letting him absorb #18.

[Cipher]

With Piccolo, it was a combination of "If you die, then God dies too" and "I want to fight you again sometime". But because, if Goku killed him, God would die too, I can understand Goku's decision a bit more though (although Goku probably cared more about fighting Piccolo, and they could've sealed up with the Mafuba).

There is absolutely no difference between the Piccolo decision and the Vegeta one.

Kuririn even shouts, "Damn! We should have sealed him up!" as Piccolo flies away. Goku even says, and I can't remember the exact line, that a large part of his motivation for healing Piccolo was keeping him as an "archenemy." They had him paralyzed. There were a number of solutions that would have removed the danger while keeping God alive.

Keep in mind that moments before Goku did this, Piccolo had killed everyone on the Tenkaichi Budokai island.

[Michsi]

There is absolutely no difference between the Piccolo decision and the Vegeta one.

Kuririn even shouts, "Damn! We should have sealed him up!" as Piccolo flies away. Goku even says, and I can't remember the exact line, that a large part of his motivation for healing Piccolo was keeping him as an "archenemy." They had him paralyzed. There were a number of solutions that would have removed the danger while keeping God alive.

Keep in mind that moments before Goku did this, Piccolo had killed everyone on the Tenkaichi Budokai island.

While I know filler scenes don't hold much water for most here I think the scene where everybody flees the Island after they find out who Ma Jr. is is appropriate. For some reason I always saw the city as abandoned during the second part of the fight even in the manga.

There is still the fact that Goku believed that he "wasn't that bad". There is a significant difference between Piccolo and his father and I think this is one of those instances where Goku saw something others didn't.
Never the less, Kami not dying was what I always saw as his main reason. Keeping an archenemy too of course.

The major difference with Vegeta's case is that he hadn't defeated Vegeta, that was what made him decide to let him leave. That was the ONLY reason he let him live.