What's everyone's problem with the English music?

[JBoogie]

I was introduced to DBZ by way of Funimation, so I grew up with that version. So I can't really see the problems that everyone has with it, probably because I'm used to it. Also, I've never watched the original Japanese. Is it really that bad?

[BobZ]

No, it is not bad at all. Neither is the English music to be honest. I like both versions, except that I hate the unfaithful dub.
I also grew up with Falconer's music, but look at me now, I would prefer the Japanese score any day of the week.

[Michsi]

There are people here who do like Faulkner's music so "everyone" isn't really correct.

I for one like Kikuchi's score better mostly because I think it suits the series more.
But I admit I like Faulkner's SSJ3 theme

[Zephyr]

I was introduced to DBZ by way of Funimation, so I grew up with that version. So I can't really see the problems that everyone has with it, probably because I'm used to it. Also, I've never watched the original Japanese. Is it really that bad?

I grew up the same way, but I wound up preferring the Japanese version after watching it long enough. I'd give it a fair shot if you haven't yet.

I still like Faulconer's music as just regular listening music, much more than most of the bgm tracks from the Japanese version, but I think the original bgm fits much more with the show. Doesn't matter which you come to prefer, everyone has their preferences.

[VegettoEX]

I guess it's worth pointing out to those who may not be aware, but this is a website and community geared toward the original version of the franchise -- that being the Japanese version. A huge portion of our audience (roughly 50%) does not come from North America, so FUNimation's production is as foreign to them as the Basque version may be to most everyone else.

Furthermore, a huge portion of us who do live in North America got into the franchise long before FUNimation's various musical shifts from composer to composer after bringing it back in-house. By the time the Faulconer Productions score came around, I was already familiar with: (1) the Peter Berring score for the first TV series, (2) the Shuki Levy score for FUNimation's English dub, and of course, (3) the original Japanese score by Shunsuke Kikuchi (and I suppose the Tokunaga DBGT score, too).

What folks were watching on Toonami was completely irrelevant to fans like us, especially by the time the year 2000 came around and FUNimation was releasing bilingual DVDs. We had no need or care for their English dub with its changed scripts and scores. Couple that with general opinions and tastes in conjunction with experience with the franchise, musical training, different locations throughout the world... it shouldn't be too difficult to start to understand why folks simply have no desire to associate that score with the franchise .

[TheBlackPaladin]

I was introduced to DBZ by way of Funimation, so I grew up with that version. So I can't really see the problems that everyone has with it, probably because I'm used to it. Also, I've never watched the original Japanese. Is it really that bad?

Please understand, that question is VERY much based on opinion. So there's no universal "right" or "wrong" answer. Having said that, Daizenshuu EX caters mostly to people who prefer the Japanese version, so while you will find some Faulconer fans here and there, they are few and far between on this particular site. Not to discourage you, of course, if you want to praise aspects of the English adaptation. As long as it doesn't descend into mindless troll talk (i.e. "dude the jap score suks ballz and faulconers music PWNS long live dbz!"), then everybody here--moderators included--welcome anything you have to say.

As far as the music is concerned...like I said, no such thing as a universal "right" or "wrong" answer. I can only give you my personal opinion. My personal opinion, though, generally falls in line with the reasons that most people don't like the English music. So...on that note...

1) It's not the original music. It's sort of deceptive to call the show "DBZ" if it keeps getting changed so much, music included. It's even somewhat angering. It would be like if you took "Star Wars," took out John Williams' score, replaced it with rock music, and then said, "See--THIS is Star Wars!" Those of us who wanted a faithful representation of the show in English were not particularly happy with seeing such a big element of the show changed. After all, literally EVERY other foreign dub of the show kept the music--why couldn't we? It often resulted in a show that felt so different, it couldn't rightfully be called "DBZ." That's one of the reasons people were excited about the original music being in Kai...that way, whether we were talking about the Japanese version or the English version, we would at least be talking about the same show this time around.

2) Conflicting emotional tones. One could say that the purpose of music is to enhance the emotional tone of a scene. A lot of us feel that the English music tried to emphasize the wrong emotions and wrong elements of certain scenes, to the point where the original intent of the scene was lost. FUNimation blatantly admitted that they changed a lot of the original DBZ because they were worried that it wouldn't appeal to American audiences, and you can see that in the music. Bruce Faulconer's music tends to emphasize the "action" elements of scenes. It tends to emphasize the adrenaline rush of the battles, and the "coolness" of the attacks...when, in fact, that's not what Akira Toriyama or the original creative staff were going for. Shunsuke Kikuchi's music more properly emphasized the emotions behind the battle, and what was at stake for the characters involved.

3) The English music was happening....all. The. Time. There was literally no moment in the show where music was absent. One of the greatest things about the Japanese music is that there were often prolonged moments of silence, and no music at all. It allowed us to focus on the dialogue more, and the dialogue automatically seemed a lot more intense when it was literally the only thing you were hearing.

4) Music type. It would be one thing if they composed a new orchestral score, but they literally changed it to a techno/rock/synthesizer score.

5) Quality. Easily the most subjective thing to talk about. A lot of us think that the Japanese score simply sounds...better.

Having said that, I lie on a very weird area of the spectrum of Dragon Ball Z fandom. I like everything about the Japanese version better...except for the voices. You'd think I would like the Japanese voices better too, but not really. Even after viewing many, many episodes in the original Japanese format with English subtitles, I still prefer the English voices. Those are simply the voices that sound right to me. However, whenever I view DBZ, I always watch it with the English Voices+Japanese Music audio track, because it's important for me personally to hear an English adaptation of the original Japanese show, and not a reversioning. Still, that only brought me so close. For a while I was very disappointed that we didn't have a real English version of DBZ, which is why I love the English dub of Kai. Yes, it's not beyond improvement, but it's close enough that we're talking about the same show now--whereas with DBZ, we were not.

[kaialone]

I don't hate the English music. In fact, I really love some pieces of it, but I think some it is kinda irritating.

[SylentEcho]

I love Faulconer's music! The only thing I don't like is:

1:) It's playing all the time! It never stops.

2:) The horrible dub ruins the overall dub DBZ experience and the music gets hate because of it.

[Sshadow5001]

I love the English music (from when I was) growing up, especially in key moments of the series I fondly remember (the whole Freeza-Trunks story arc). However, I've grown to like the Japanese version of the show more but I still keep a few DVD singles about if I ever wanna go back to my childhood again.

I picked up the American soundtracks ages ago but I only like a handful of the tracks on them. It's not that I hate the English music; it's just that I like the Japanese music more.

[Chibi Gohan]

Music should add to experience of any show or a movie. It's there to set a mood and should make the audience feel a certain way. The issue I have here is that a scene will likely have a different tone or feel depending on which score you use. The difference in some scenes are night and day. I feel that part of the Dragon Ball experience is the original music score, as it sets a more accurate tone and mood for a scene. This is something that the English score fails to do.

[JBoogie]

I was introduced to DBZ by way of Funimation, so I grew up with that version. So I can't really see the problems that everyone has with it, probably because I'm used to it. Also, I've never watched the original Japanese. Is it really that bad?

Please understand, that question is VERY much based on opinion. So there's no universal "right" or "wrong" answer. Having said that, Daizenshuu EX caters mostly to people who prefer the Japanese version, so while you will find some Faulconer fans here and there, they are few and far between on this particular site. Not to discourage you, of course, if you want to praise aspects of the English adaptation. As long as it doesn't descend into mindless troll talk (i.e. "dude the jap score suks ballz and faulconers music PWNS long live dbz!"), then everybody here--moderators included--welcome anything you have to say.

As far as the music is concerned...like I said, no such thing as a universal "right" or "wrong" answer. I can only give you my personal opinion. My personal opinion, though, generally falls in line with the reasons that most people don't like the English music. So...on that note...




Also, are there any scene comparison videos?
1) It's not the original music. It's sort of deceptive to call the show "DBZ" if it keeps getting changed so much, music included. It's even somewhat angering. It would be like if you took "Star Wars," took out John Williams' score, replaced it with rock music, and then said, "See--THIS is Star Wars!" Those of us who wanted a faithful representation of the show in English were not particularly happy with seeing such a big element of the show changed. After all, literally EVERY other foreign dub of the show kept the music--why couldn't we? It often resulted in a show that felt so different, it couldn't rightfully be called "DBZ." That's one of the reasons people were excited about the original music being in Kai...that way, whether we were talking about the Japanese version or the English version, we would at least be talking about the same show this time around.

2) Conflicting emotional tones. One could say that the purpose of music is to enhance the emotional tone of a scene. A lot of us feel that the English music tried to emphasize the wrong emotions and wrong elements of certain scenes, to the point where the original intent of the scene was lost. FUNimation blatantly admitted that they changed a lot of the original DBZ because they were worried that it wouldn't appeal to American audiences, and you can see that in the music. Bruce Faulconer's music tends to emphasize the "action" elements of scenes. It tends to emphasize the adrenaline rush of the battles, and the "coolness" of the attacks...when, in fact, that's not what Akira Toriyama or the original creative staff were going for. Shunsuke Kikuchi's music more properly emphasized the emotions behind the battle, and what was at stake for the characters involved.

3) The English music was happening....all. The. Time. There was literally no moment in the show where music was absent. One of the greatest things about the Japanese music is that there were often prolonged moments of silence, and no music at all. It allowed us to focus on the dialogue more, and the dialogue automatically seemed a lot more intense when it was literally the only thing you were hearing.

4) Music type. It would be one thing if they composed a new orchestral score, but they literally changed it to a techno/rock/synthesizer score.

4) Quality. Easily the most subjective thing to talk about. A lot of us think that the Japanese score simply sounds...better.

Having said that, I lie on a very weird area of the spectrum of Dragon Ball Z fandom. I like everything about the Japanese version better...except for the voices. You'd think I would like the Japanese voices better too, but not really. Even after viewing many, many episodes in the original Japanese format with English subtitles, I still prefer the English voices. Those are simply the voices that sound right to me. However, whenever I view DBZ, I always watch it with the English Voices+Japanese Music audio track, because it's important for me personally to hear an English adaptation of the original Japanese show, and not a reversioning. Still, that only brought me so close. For a while I was very disappointed that we didn't have a real English version of DBZ, which is why I love the English dub of Kai. Yes, it's not beyond improvement, but it's close enough that we're talking about the same show now--whereas with DBZ, we were not.

Thanks for this. If you don't mind explaining, what's your problem with the dubs? I might as well not make another thread.

Also, any scene comparisons with English vs. Japanese audio?

[Mosaic]

I never cared for the English music. Even as a kid I didn't like Faulconer's music. Too me it just sounds too generic, cheap, and overdone. The original music just sounded like it had more effort put into it. It had a strong, adventurous tune. Faulconer's stuff just kind of sounds like cheap stock music from some low-budget cartoon.

The other music (like Menza's stuff) isn't that much better, but it didn't come off as obnoxious as Faulconer's stuff.

[Chibi Gohan]

Thanks for this. If you don't mind explaining, what's your problem with the dubs? I might as well not make another thread.

Also, any scene comparisons with English vs. Japanese audio?

Some of the problems that people have with the English dub for Z included bad scripts, dialogue changes, and voice acting. I'm sure you can find some threads on this board that goes into deeper conversation of these issues.

A nice place to start would be here.

[TheBlackPaladin]

I was introduced to DBZ by way of Funimation, so I grew up with that version. So I can't really see the problems that everyone has with it, probably because I'm used to it. Also, I've never watched the original Japanese. Is it really that bad?

Please understand, that question is VERY much based on opinion. So there's no universal "right" or "wrong" answer. Having said that, Daizenshuu EX caters mostly to people who prefer the Japanese version, so while you will find some Faulconer fans here and there, they are few and far between on this particular site. Not to discourage you, of course, if you want to praise aspects of the English adaptation. As long as it doesn't descend into mindless troll talk (i.e. "dude the jap score suks ballz and faulconers music PWNS long live dbz!"), then everybody here--moderators included--welcome anything you have to say.

As far as the music is concerned...like I said, no such thing as a universal "right" or "wrong" answer. I can only give you my personal opinion. My personal opinion, though, generally falls in line with the reasons that most people don't like the English music. So...on that note...




Also, are there any scene comparison videos?
1) It's not the original music. It's sort of deceptive to call the show "DBZ" if it keeps getting changed so much, music included. It's even somewhat angering. It would be like if you took "Star Wars," took out John Williams' score, replaced it with rock music, and then said, "See--THIS is Star Wars!" Those of us who wanted a faithful representation of the show in English were not particularly happy with seeing such a big element of the show changed. After all, literally EVERY other foreign dub of the show kept the music--why couldn't we? It often resulted in a show that felt so different, it couldn't rightfully be called "DBZ." That's one of the reasons people were excited about the original music being in Kai...that way, whether we were talking about the Japanese version or the English version, we would at least be talking about the same show this time around.

2) Conflicting emotional tones. One could say that the purpose of music is to enhance the emotional tone of a scene. A lot of us feel that the English music tried to emphasize the wrong emotions and wrong elements of certain scenes, to the point where the original intent of the scene was lost. FUNimation blatantly admitted that they changed a lot of the original DBZ because they were worried that it wouldn't appeal to American audiences, and you can see that in the music. Bruce Faulconer's music tends to emphasize the "action" elements of scenes. It tends to emphasize the adrenaline rush of the battles, and the "coolness" of the attacks...when, in fact, that's not what Akira Toriyama or the original creative staff were going for. Shunsuke Kikuchi's music more properly emphasized the emotions behind the battle, and what was at stake for the characters involved.

3) The English music was happening....all. The. Time. There was literally no moment in the show where music was absent. One of the greatest things about the Japanese music is that there were often prolonged moments of silence, and no music at all. It allowed us to focus on the dialogue more, and the dialogue automatically seemed a lot more intense when it was literally the only thing you were hearing.

4) Music type. It would be one thing if they composed a new orchestral score, but they literally changed it to a techno/rock/synthesizer score.

4) Quality. Easily the most subjective thing to talk about. A lot of us think that the Japanese score simply sounds...better.

Having said that, I lie on a very weird area of the spectrum of Dragon Ball Z fandom. I like everything about the Japanese version better...except for the voices. You'd think I would like the Japanese voices better too, but not really. Even after viewing many, many episodes in the original Japanese format with English subtitles, I still prefer the English voices. Those are simply the voices that sound right to me. However, whenever I view DBZ, I always watch it with the English Voices+Japanese Music audio track, because it's important for me personally to hear an English adaptation of the original Japanese show, and not a reversioning. Still, that only brought me so close. For a while I was very disappointed that we didn't have a real English version of DBZ, which is why I love the English dub of Kai. Yes, it's not beyond improvement, but it's close enough that we're talking about the same show now--whereas with DBZ, we were not.

Thanks for this. If you don't mind explaining, what's your problem with the dubs? I might as well not make another thread.

Also, any scene comparisons with English vs. Japanese audio?

Well, like I said, I prefer the English voice cast (with a few exceptions, and the few voices in the English dub that I didn't like have been re-cast for Kai anyway). As a voice actor myself, I prefer dubs the vast majority of the time...I'm not a big fan of reading TV shows. My issue with the English dub of DBZ was--and still is--THE WRITING. The problem is that they purposefully re-wrote so many lines just to "kiddie it up" and make it more kid-safe. The old producer, Barry Watson, flat out admitted in an interview that they had a writer whose sole job it was to come in and "punch up the comedy." Again, it goes back to the issue of the show being presented as DBZ not actually being the real DBZ. If you change the script, it's a different show. All I've ever wanted was an English dub with the voice cast I love, but with them using a faithfully-translated script...which, again, I pretty much have thanks to Kai. That's one of the big deals about Kai, the writing for the English script is actually very faithful there, as opposed to DBZ.

The acting used to be an issue for me too, but the English cast has made HUGE improvements over the years that I don't really consider it an issue anymore.

As far as audio comparisons...well, off the top of my head, here are some suggestions. First off, if you want to hear the English dub but with the Japanese music, go ahead and watch the episodes of DBZ that FUNimation is currently streaming. The English version uses the Japanese music track. However, that may not be the best representation because the music is very inconsistently mixed. One episode the music will be nice and loud, then the next episode the music will be so damn quiet that you can barely hear it. The mixing job was very inconsistent for the English voices+Japanese music audio track.

However, here's a comparison of one VERY famous scene in DBZ. The "I Am" speech by Goku, where he proclaims to Freeza that he is a Super Saiyan...more or less totally re-written for Z into the much-maligned "I am the Hope of the Universe" speech. It just wasn't what he was saying. Unfortunately, I'm having trouble finding a copy of the original Japanese version of this scene on YouTube...someone, feel free to find it! All I can do is provide a comparison of the DBZ English version and the Kai English version. Still, this comparison of the English versions should give you an idea of the differences in writing (hint: the Kai version is MUCH more accurately written).

The English DBZ Version

The English Kai Version (aka how it should have been done the first time--the original music, and a pretty much perfectly-translated script)

Hope this helps!

[SSJ YUSUKE]

I personally don't have much love for the Falcouner score. There are some themes which I do like like Goku's SSj 3 theme, Pikkon's theme and Vegeta's piano theme, but other than these I do feel that Falcouner ruins some very iconic moments (just look at Gohan going SSJ 2 in Japanese and you will see how the English dub ruined it).

Also, it's ridiculous how they continue to play music when silence is required. I can't recall a single moment when there was no music playing in the background. At the same time certain themes which were okay were over used like the Cell theme.

[VegettoEX]

Let's try to keep things on-topic about the music, folks. I may as well move this thread over to the "Music" sub-section, as well.

There are other appropriate threads for discussing the ins-and-outs of various dubs (English and otherwise) of the franchise if you'd like to join in on those, as has been pointed out.

[TonyTheTiger]

I don't mean to speak for everybody, but there seems to be implied context that often gets ignored or misconstrued when the issue of dub music comes up.

"I hate Faulconer's music" can mean just that. But I rarely get the impression that's what most people here mean when they say it. I tend to read it with the implied "for Dragon Ball Z" tacked on because, well, look at the website we're on. Now maybe those people would feel like the score is terrible for any show but that's kind of a broad stroke for such a narrow focus.

I happen to think the music is pretty decent. Not mindblowing or anything but perfectly competent for an animated series. And, fully aware that I'm the minority, I feel the same way about Kikuchi's music. I don't have any particular love or hate for it. For me it's always been "yup, that's the music." That's the music proper, though. The scoring style is another matter. One thing that does annoy me about Faulconer's score is that it never shuts the hell up.

[KakaR0T]

I don't have a "problem" with the English music. I too first saw Dragonball Z with that music. However, I prefer the Japanese music because:

1. It sounds better. I believe the Japanese music fit the scenes better than the English music can.

2. I really love how you sometimes hear the music from the Dragonball series.

3. Consistency. There was no new music for the Dragonball series, they kept the Japanese music. So I don't know why there had to be new music for the Dragonball Z series.

[TheBlackPaladin]

Let's try to keep things on-topic about the music, folks. I may as well move this thread over to the "Music" sub-section, as well.

There are other appropriate threads for discussing the ins-and-outs of various dubs (English and otherwise) of the franchise if you'd like to join in on those, as has been pointed out.

Agreed. Sorry 'bout going off-topic.

[JBoogie]

Thanks for everything, and sorry for getting off-topic.