The original Future Trunks

[Dorexx]

Did he stay dead, or was he returned to life after the wish?

This Trunks is killed by Cell, in a different timeline, 4 years before the wish to bring back all of Cell's victims.

1. Is this impossible because this Trunks was in a different world/dimension/universe?
2. Is it impossible because Shenlong only brings people who died within a year?

If these restrictions exist, did they still exist after Dende powered-up the dragon?
If they did, wouldn't the dragon say something about it?

[Bussani]

1. Is this impossible because this Trunks was in a different world/dimension/universe?

That's the real question here, and a good one at that. Can Shenlong restore people to life across time and timelines? I think it's one of those things that even Shenlong himself might not be sure of. I mean, you're basically asking him to restore to life not only someone from a different timeline, but someone in the future of that timeline. Cell might have killed him four years earlier from his point of view, but it's still the future from the dragon's. I guess it would be like if Trunks came back in time and used the dragon balls to wish the Goku from his timeline back to life.

2. Is it impossible because Shenlong only brings people who died within a year?

What Kami said was they'd be limited to those who died in a year if you made a big wish like "Bring back every person Vegeta and Nappa ever killed." There doesn't seem to be a limit outside of cases like that. The wish to restore everyone Cell killed seems to be one of those big wishes, though, so even if it did work across time/timelines, that other Trunks probably would have been left out of that one.

[Piccolo Daimao]

1. Is this impossible because this Trunks was in a different world/dimension/universe?

That's the real question here, and a good one at that. Can Shenlong restore people to life across time and timelines? I think it's one of those things that even Shenlong himself might not be sure of. I mean, you're basically asking him to restore to life not only someone from a different timeline, but someone in the future of that timeline. Cell might have killed him four years earlier from his point of view, but it's still the future from the dragon's. I guess it would be like if Trunks came back in time and used the dragon balls to wish the Goku from his timeline back to life.

I think Shenlong could only restore people from his own timeline. It just makes things too complicated if Shenlong somehow revives a person from a completely different timeline and universe. Perhaps that's the reason why Trunks never used the DBs in the new timeline he created (the one where Gohan kills Cell) to revive everyone who'd died in his timeline.

[Silver Sinspawn]

... What would happen if he took the Dragon Balls (along with Dende) to his timeline, and made the wish?

[Zephyr]

If its beyond the dragon's power to do something like turning Androids back into humans, I think it'd be safe to say that reviving someone from an alternate reality/universe/timeline would be even further beyond said power.

[SuperForteX]

This is probably one of the most original topics I've seen brought up on any DB board I've ever lurked at. Such a good question, it's a shame discussion hasn't really taken off with the loads of speculation and imaginative thinking that this topic deserves!

One would think, that the wish to bring back to life all those Cell killed, should indeed include the Future Trunks that Cell killed when he first stole the time machine.

I mean, why wouldn't it?

Would it not because that version of Future Trunks "hasn't died yet?" And furthermore, he exists in a "probability field" that will no longer happen, in the time-stream that Shen Long was currently occupying?

Or does Shen Long's influence extend across the entire freaking macroverse?

Where even is Shen Long when he's not graning wishes. Where is he summoned from? What if the Namekians belief of creating the Dragons and the Dragon Balls is just an illusion. What if they can't even comprehend what they're doing, tapping into some deep and primal power, and drawing the spirit of the Dragon in that sense?

Shen Long may very well be God, above even Dai Kaioshin.

Or I suppose none of that can possibly be true, because of his limitations, his statements about not exceeding his creator's power, and him being slaughtered by the Great Demon King.

Unless.. those are more like political caveats that he must follow while taking physical form in the living realm.

What do you guys think? I think the wish probably did bring the original Future Trunks back. And I think his universe became the strangest and most unique universe known.

[Dorexx]

I also like to believe he was. Even if there is a restriction because of different timelines or dimensions, I'd imagine it being done as a special offer maybe, or change the rules this time. Shen Long would also know about everything that happened across time lately, along with the fact that this Trunks is responsible for "changing" everything in the end.

If it wouldn't be possible, maybe he would at least inform everyone, like "Cell came from the future; It is beyond my power to bring back the victims in the time he came from, but I will bring back the ones he killed in the present."

There's also the 1 year thing, because it was a "big" wish. This might not count anymore though, because the dragon had more power now.

[russ869]

Bussani kind of already said this, but if the Dragon Balls from the past could effect events in future (AND in alternate realities, since you can never travel to the past of your own reality) Trunks would have just traveled back in time, used the Dragon Balls to wish everyone in his time back, and left.

But actually that is not the case. In fact he makes a point of being quite clear that it is impossible to fix anything that has happened to his world. The best he can do is save the people of an alternate reality.

... What would happen if he took the Dragon Balls (along with Dende) to his timeline, and made the wish?

Woah... now there's a question. I think you just blew my mind.

If it wouldn't be possible, maybe he would at least inform everyone, like "Cell came from the future; It is beyond my power to bring back the victims in the time he came from, but I will bring back the ones he killed in the present."

I don't think Shen Long even knows about those people he killed in the future of another reality. How could he? So in other words, even if you brought the Dragon Ball (and Dende) back in your time machine, it's probably still a toss up on whether or not he'd be able to revive everyone.

[goku the krump dancer]

Wait so the Trunks that killed Freeza is NOT the same Trunks that came to fight the androids? Since when?

[Bussani]

Wait so the Trunks that killed Freeza is NOT the same Trunks that came to fight the androids? Since when?

I don't think anyone said that. The Trunks that killed Freeza and later came back to help against the Androids (and later) Cell was indeed the same Trunks. There's a separate Trunks who Cell killed so he could steal his time machine. He can be thought of as "the original Trunks" in the sense that his actions lead to the timeline we see in the manga.

[laserkid]

Timelines! Hooray! xP

I don't think Shen Long has the ability to cross 5th dimensionality (read: walls of the universe beyond which alternate realities, if they exist would have to exist - don't ask me about the 4th dimension it's harder to explain ).

If he COULD then the wishes for people to come back to life during the Buu era would have had an effect on Trunks' timeline and therefore future trunks would never have had need of a time machine (with everyone on earth being wished back to life in the Buu era bringing back everyone else dead in the future trunks timeline), therefore he never would have gone back in time, therefore we create a time paradox.

[rereboy]

If he COULD then the wishes for people to come back to life during the Buu era would have had an effect on Trunks' timeline and therefore future trunks would never have had need of a time machine (with everyone on earth being wished back to life in the Buu era bringing back everyone else dead in the future trunks timeline), therefore he never would have gone back in time, therefore we create a time paradox.

He created a time paradox just by killing Freeza and saving Goku. Trunks from the main timeline never had to time travel thanks to what the other Trunks did.

Toriyama used the theoretical consequence of what should happen when a time paradox happens. The paradox, instead of erasing the future, creates a new reality that coexists with the original timeline. And that is why Trunks' world doesn't change and is able to return there and continue to exist.

Another temporal paradox would just create another timeline. But there is nothing stopping Trunks from using (or trying to use) the dragon balls in his own world AND in his own present time, avoiding any temporal paradox. Trunks would only create another paradox if he tried to change the past (pretty much like he did with the time machine).

[sanorin]

As some of you said before, I don't think that Shenlong's actions could affect other timeline than the one he is in.

It would be possible, however, for Trunks to bring Dende and the Dragon Balls and wish to revive everyone killed by the androids in his timeline, but as stated before, it would only work for people who had died in a period of 1 year, which would not include all of our friends, Krillin, Yamcha, Ten, Piccolo, Vegeta, Gohan, Yajirobe... Unless maybe they made separate wishes to revive each one (of course not Gokuh, who died of natural causes), but that would take years to revive everyone, and probably the survivors in his timeline already made peace in their minds with all the dead persons, and they would just try to move on.

Now, since we are in time travelling issues:

According to timeline guides, Trunks goes for the first time with the time machine from his year 784 to year 764 to warn our friends, creating then a new timeline. He then goes back to 784, and 1 year later (785) he goes back again to 3 years later in the past (767) to help in the battle with the androids. Now, when he goes back this second time, why his machine takes him to the new altered timeline, which is no longer the past of his own timeline? If his machine takes him just to the past, going to year 767, our friends would know nothing about the androids and get killed soon. But instead, he goes not to the past, but to that another reality. How is that possible? Would it be possible for him (just for fun) to travel to his own past, to the year 767 of the non altered reality, to see his father get killed, Gokuh die, etc.?

[rereboy]

Now, since we are in time travelling issues:

According to timeline guides, Trunks goes for the first time with the time machine from his year 784 to year 764 to warn our friends, creating then a new timeline. He then goes back to 784, and 1 year later (785) he goes back again to 3 years later in the past (767) to help in the battle with the androids. Now, when he goes back this second time, why his machine takes him to the new altered timeline, which is no longer the past of his own timeline? If his machine takes him just to the past, going to year 767, our friends would know nothing about the androids and get killed soon. But instead, he goes not to the past, but to that another reality. How is that possible? Would it be possible for him (just for fun) to travel to his own past, to the year 767 of the non altered reality, to see his father get killed, Gokuh die, etc.?

Probably because the machine can travel in time and between the realities it creates with its travels. It sort of memorizes them.

Its pretty much the only logical answer given what we see in the manga.

[Bussani]

Now, since we are in time travelling issues:

According to timeline guides, Trunks goes for the first time with the time machine from his year 784 to year 764 to warn our friends, creating then a new timeline. He then goes back to 784, and 1 year later (785) he goes back again to 3 years later in the past (767) to help in the battle with the androids. Now, when he goes back this second time, why his machine takes him to the new altered timeline, which is no longer the past of his own timeline? If his machine takes him just to the past, going to year 767, our friends would know nothing about the androids and get killed soon. But instead, he goes not to the past, but to that another reality. How is that possible? Would it be possible for him (just for fun) to travel to his own past, to the year 767 of the non altered reality, to see his father get killed, Gokuh die, etc.?

We find out as the story goes on that Bulma always knew that the time machine would create a new timeline and thus not directly affect theirs. But she also expected Trunks to return. If that's possible, she must have built it so it can move between timelines it's already been to, otherwise Trunks would probably have ended up in the future of the new timeline he created when trying to return home.

[Fox666]

I suppose the time machine can only go to the past, and can only travel to the same alternate dimension

[laserkid]

If he COULD then the wishes for people to come back to life during the Buu era would have had an effect on Trunks' timeline and therefore future trunks would never have had need of a time machine (with everyone on earth being wished back to life in the Buu era bringing back everyone else dead in the future trunks timeline), therefore he never would have gone back in time, therefore we create a time paradox.

He created a time paradox just by killing Freeza and saving Goku. Trunks from the main timeline never had to time travel thanks to what the other Trunks did.

Toriyama used the theoretical consequence of what should happen when a time paradox happens. The paradox, instead of erasing the future, creates a new reality that coexists with the original timeline. And that is why Trunks' world doesn't change and is able to return there and continue to exist.

Another temporal paradox would just create another timeline. But there is nothing stopping Trunks from using (or trying to use) the dragon balls in his own world AND in his own present time, avoiding any temporal paradox. Trunks would only create another paradox if he tried to change the past (pretty much like he did with the time machine).

Quite right, but there's no evidence from the show or any source materials that every time a wish is made infinite more timelines are created, which if wishes did cross timelines would have to happen.

[SuperForteX]

Hm... this is making me wonder about something else entirely. That is, can the Dragon Balls be used to change the past? For example, say instead of "I wish Goku were back from the dead," instead: "I wish Goku had never died." What would happen?

[rereboy]

If he COULD then the wishes for people to come back to life during the Buu era would have had an effect on Trunks' timeline and therefore future trunks would never have had need of a time machine (with everyone on earth being wished back to life in the Buu era bringing back everyone else dead in the future trunks timeline), therefore he never would have gone back in time, therefore we create a time paradox.

He created a time paradox just by killing Freeza and saving Goku. Trunks from the main timeline never had to time travel thanks to what the other Trunks did.

Toriyama used the theoretical consequence of what should happen when a time paradox happens. The paradox, instead of erasing the future, creates a new reality that coexists with the original timeline. And that is why Trunks' world doesn't change and is able to return there and continue to exist.

Another temporal paradox would just create another timeline. But there is nothing stopping Trunks from using (or trying to use) the dragon balls in his own world AND in his own present time, avoiding any temporal paradox. Trunks would only create another paradox if he tried to change the past (pretty much like he did with the time machine).

Quite right, but there's no evidence from the show or any source materials that every time a wish is made infinite more timelines are created, which if wishes did cross timelines would have to happen.

Right. If a wish changed things in the past, it would create a paradox and, as such, another reality. If it doesn't change the past, then there is no temporal paradox.

Also, time is relative. Trunks could ask the Dragon to change how the fight with the androids in his time went when he went to the past, but the wish would still change Trunks' past and, as such, it would either change Trunks' reality and Trunks with it or it would create another timeline. And, as we saw in the series, the solution is another timeline.

Hm... this is making me wonder about something else entirely. That is, can the Dragon Balls be used to change the past? For example, say instead of "I wish Goku were back from the dead," instead: "I wish Goku had never died." What would happen?

Like I said, as long as the Dragon could grant the wish, it would create another reality. It would be no different than using the Time Machine.